USP Files Letter of Intent to Sue

USP Announces Letter of Intent to Sue
By Jim Slinsky

In what will prove to have national significance in the deer management arena the Unified Sportsmen of Pennsylvania (USP) has announced their intent to sue the PA Game Commission for their current deer management policies. This effort is nearly one year in the making and was not decided upon without intense internal debate. Civil rights attorney Don Bailey of Harrisburg is handling the case. Mr. Bailey is the former Auditor General of PA under the Casey Administration. He specializes in suing government on behalf of its citizens.

This will be an "injunctive relief" suit similar to the legal maneuver of environmentalists who wish to halt a timber cut. In the most basic terms the complaint will attempt to stop the deer eradication program and force the PGC to prove it is necessary. Furthermore, Attorney Bailey is challenging the PGC for violating Title 34 (the Game Law) on behalf of the forestry industry. Obviously, the PGC’s first and foremost obligation is to fulfill their legislatively mandated mission, not cater to commercial forestry. The PGC’s deer model calculations, preseason herd estimate, harvest modeling methodology, post season herd estimate and the like will all be sought within this case. This critical information has been withheld by the PGC even after repeated "Right to Know" requests by the USP.

The decision to move forward with the lawsuit was predicated on the most recent words of our PGC Commissioners, correspondence with and by Executive Director Vern Ross, DCNR internal documents and the continuous "kill the deer" rhetoric of the environmental and forest community. Just days ago the Audubon released a 368-page document once again condemning our deer as demons of the environment. Additionally, environmentalists within and associated with DCNR have continued their call for agency merger.

Dr. Gary Alt was again in the newspapers proclaiming that deer management will never be handled properly unless the PGC receives outside funding. He claims the PGC’s problems stem from being solely financed by our sporting community. I suppose Gary would like to see Audubon, the Nature Conservancy and the Sierra Club as well as the public finance the PGC. In that scenario, environmentalists would be entitled to become PGC Commissioners.

At this precise moment only a Letter of Intent to Sue has been declared. Go to the USP website at www.unifiedsportsmenpa.org and review the legal document. All those unhappy with the current PGC policies are invited to join this suit. Yes, you can attach your name to this suit as an individual. You can join online or print off a sign-on sheet for all of your friends to become involved. I suspect the PGC attorneys will try to have the actual suit dismissed for reasons of standing. Thousands of supportive signatures will resolve any question of standing in the judge’s mind. Support by our sporting community will insure the formal complaint will be filed rather quickly, not at some time in the future.

Interestingly, part of the strategy of this suit is to bolster the independence of the PGC. DCNR has been relentless in its pursuit to continue the deer slaughter. Hopefully, DCNR’s additional demands to kill more deer will be met by a unique PGC response. "We can not comply with your demands. We have been sued. There is a court ordered injunction against eradicating our deer herd." Frankly, the suit is a stroke of genius. I encourage all sportsmen to attend the PGC’s January 23 meeting and express their views. The future of PA deer hunting literally hangs by a thread.

It is true that we have forest regeneration problems in PA. It is equally true that we have known of these problems for 50 years. It is further true that every state east of the Mississippi is experiencing similar problems. What makes PA unique is that we are the only state attempting to eradicate its deer herd and its $5 billion hunting industry to resolve that problem.

Actually, deer are merely the tool being used to steal our 1.5 million acres of State Game Lands away from us, merge our agencies and put anti-hunting environmentalist in control of our resource management.

After watching this debate and the vile politics for 10 years the decision by the Unified Sportsmen of PA to turn to the courts is appropriate, overdue and extremely courageous. Hunters have been permitted zero input in this entire debacle and the matter is now out of our control.

Unfortunately, in these days of special interest agendas, arrogant and infiltrated bureaucracies and unresponsive government, lawsuits have become the necessary alternative to restore sanity, truth and the will of the people.

Jim Slinsky is the host and producer of the "Sportsman’s Connection", a nationally syndicated, outdoor-talk radio program. For a station near you or to contact Jim, visit his website at www.outdoortalknetwork.com

I do believe there is going to be a big collision between hunters up there! Some don't realize how good they got it, others have accepted the fact that they need deer management.

tampaspicer said:

You got that right. I guess some of the hunters up there are mad they can't see 30 - 50 deer a day while hunting. They are all upset because they can't harvest a deer the 1st hour of rifle season. I'd like to see those guys come down here and hunt for a season. I bet they would go back home a keep their mouths shut and just hunt.

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Amen spicer! I called my sister in law and her husband the first week of PA buck season and they were mad! Only saw 30 deer the first day! :

Deer in Pennsylvania

They've been arguing about deer reduction in PA for over four years. Their deer management director resigned at the end of the year.
Some of their hunters don't get it. They think they have a right to see forty and fifty deer in a square mile.
Two of their most populous counties had or are scheduling sharpshooter deer culling.
Change is hard for some. A few on one site have political axes to grind.

should be the

UIP.....United Idiots of Pennsylvania..........don't give an elmo about the habitat or deer herd........just want to see 30-70 the first day, shoot their little "nice 3 point" the first hour, and go drink beer......

tampaspicer said:

Alot of the PA hunters don't know what it's like to actually go out and hunt. :

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I can't tell ya of any time I saw that # of deer.

I guess it's easy to judge when ya have such a long season :

a lot of pa hunters don't konw what it's like to go out and hunt......


seems to be a lot of assumptions there to me.... :

you gotta remember we have 1 million plus hunters.....and we don't have these nice little private leases where you can get 100 acres all to yerself.

a different style of hunting. and don't believe there's too many places you see 30-40 deer a day.

As with hunting anywhere..it takes a lot of scouting...but when you get that many people out in the woods in a couple days....the deer do know where to go.

If I'd take all my opinions from what I read...I guess it's safe for me to assume 50% of GA hunters are baiters...since the polls said that

tampaspicer said:

Not sure what poll your talking about but the only polls I've seen ask if baiting should be legal. They didn't ask DO YOU BAIT. Correct me if I'm wrong but that's how I read them.

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well, since we are both making interpretations from what we are reading....I am assuming that a large percentage of those who want it legal either do it...or push the letter of the law.


of course this is all tonggue in cheek.....kinda

basically saying it's hard to make an educated and so generalized opinion from what you read on a message board.

Lololol.........

anyone wants to know what PA hunting is like, hunt up there for ten years, the WHOLE buck season, EXCEPT for the first 2 days, and see how many you harvest in that time...........a REAL GOOD hunter might get 2.lololol ...............and you won't have to worry about crowds............hardly anyone out there after the first 2 days...........

yep, spicer..........

the ones that are left get educated real fast. .........but down here, the huntin really doesn't get GOOD until the second week or so of gun season...

I know all about what yer saying John.....and belive me...you'll never really understand from what ya read on a message board

RPual11: In your opinion, what is the real problem??

I thought this would be interesting for us Southern hunters to discuss, since the south is BUSTING at the seams with deer.
Take SC: SC is a small state, ranked 32nd in size, yet it has one of the highest deer densitys (deer per sq mile) in the entire nation .... so what would happen if something like this happened in the South?? Makes one stop and think dont it??

I don't think there is a real problem. We definitely see less deer, but there are plenty around. I think that the game comission was doing an "ok" job, but the problem I think is that it all happened real suddenly and as we all know...people don't like changes. Especially drastic changes.

What is happening is that we used to have a 2 week buck only season followed by a 2 or 3 day doe only season.

People were going out, shooting the first buck they saw.

the estimate was that about 90% of our buck never made it past 1 1/2 yrs of age and only (i may be off on this number slightly) 1 in 100 made it to 4 yrs.

the game comission combined the 2 deer seasons for a 2 week either sex season. So more doe are being killed as they wanted and more buck are growing older.

Still with that. our first day of the seson it sounds like a shooting gallery in many places and as coon dawg mentioned...after day 2 or 3 our deer get real wise and are VERY hard to find unless you have your own peice of land that is not hunted.

That's the basics...hope it helped some.

if ya have any specific questions I'll try and answer em

I posted this on another BB and got this reply from a former PA dweller who now lives in SC:

"PA continually is in the top in the nation for deer-vehicle collisions and crop damage. PA hunters want to harvest their spikes and let doe walk. Billions of dollars of cost are being passed onto non-hunters in PA because everytime the PGC tried to increase harvests,hunters called their Congressmen and Senators despite biologists recommendations.
I'm all for alot of deer but when they are taking money out of non-hunting pockets,other means will be used beside the current tool (hunters).
I'm from PA. The second day of their short season,hunters are complaining they did not get "their" buck. I could copy and paste hundreds of posts about,"Ten straight years I shot a buck from my stand the first day." from PA sites."

And another:
"I'm originally from PA as well. NW PA about 2 hours north of Pittsburgh. The mentality in PA is a hunter must kill "his" buck on the opening day or the season is a wash. If they don't see 35 deer during the course of the day, it is a bad day hunting. I hunted opening day in PA this year for the first time since the antler restriction was put in place. I didn't see as many deer, but just as much deer sign. I also was fortunate enough to take a nice 8 point and did see 2 smaller bucks and one other shooter (legal) buck. The number of bucks killed in the area of the state I hunted was down, but the number of big bucks is on the rise. I did see plenty of does as well. The deer population may be slightly down, but in my opinion, that is what was needed in PA. During my years of growing up in PA and hunting PA, the buck to doe ratio was way out of whack. Way too many does running in the woods. I think PA is on to something with the antler restriction, but change is difficult when people have done the same thing for years. Not to mention when someone changes deer hunting in PA. The opening day of rifle season is like a national holiday in PA. Schools closed, many people have a paid holiday from work (I always did), it makes the top story on the local news stations, etc. It is hard for people to adjust to something sacred as deer hunting in PA."

And another:
" My honest opinion is that the hunters that are complaining are the ones who don't care or want to adapt.
The PGC finally took a sound biological stand on a major problem and are the easy target.
Though I'm just an average joe hunter, I think there are hundreds of things the PGC could do to get what they want done. The whole state has a two week season.
The hunters who get the job done are spread out all over the state and may be done for the year(limited out) the first day.One buck limit,usually two antlerless.
It can be done because 1 million hunters are out in the woods and it's like the SRS dog hunt times 10,000.
Deer running everywhere.
The problem in PA is that the population is out of hand in some places and at or below wanted populations elsewhere.
Many solutions like draw hunts or opening problem area's seasons months earlier and allowing more tags would put the alpha hunters on deer.Who wouldn't drive to the next county to help out if that meant more hunting time?
Also,most responses from the PA hunter on passing on button bucks is the same,"You are lying if you say you look for buttons before shooting.You cannot see them through the woods on a running deer." These hunters hunt the same stand first day after first day,shoot the first thing that comes by and go home.
It really is a different world in PA and I hope this does not affect the rest of the hunting world. Education probably is the key but don't go against the complainers on a message board,they will run you off."

Anything to add/take away??

A few things.

one reason less bucks are being taken is the statewide antler restrictions. depending on the area you hunt you either need 3 points or 4 points on one side.

So obviously the guy shooting the spikes every year is not gonna get as many deer. No brainer there.

I have to agree on most folks not caring if it's a button or a doe.

But I tell ya...with the way things are here..I can't say I blame people because again we have 2 weeks if yer only a gun hunter. and if you get 1 doe tag and 1 buck tag...it's tough to fill yer freezer in 2 weeks unless you get to hunt every day.

I'm not too sure what the one guy means about billions of dollars in costs being put onto non hunters? But I don't really know how it is allocated.

There are plenty of people who would rather get a spike than a doe. I agree with that...but I think that is the same a lot of other places also. Something about horns



A lot of the above is just my opinion of course. Coon Dawg Hunts up here a lot...and is a biologist. He could probably comment also