Welcome Guest!
Heaven and Free Will
- Thread starter dexrusjak
- Start date
centerpin fan
Senior Member
A lot. Paul deals with it in Romans 5 and 6.
centerpin fan
Senior Member
Adam and Eve weren't in the least bit of danger. They were on a gravy train with biscuit wheels.
centerpin fan
Senior Member
Spong is to theology what the Twinkie is to nutrition.
centerpin fan
Senior Member
Did you actually teach this to people when you were a missionary?
atlashunter
Senior Member
You'll have to do better than that. Romans 7 affirms that we are sinful by nature. If you think that isn't the case based on the preceding 2 chapters then show it.
centerpin fan
Senior Member
Sorry I disappointed you.
Does it?
Must I do all the heavy lifting?
mtnwoman
Senior Member
Well satan of course, he'd love for us to believe that God can only save a few, and we'd never chose God, God has to twist our arm. God can not even save enough that no will notice as you said not even the local news....I believe it will be noticed by all. But we have a different view on that.
I'm sorry I just believe my God is all powerful and He can do what He wants to, He can choose some of us and can also let us choose, those of us He knows He can trust to do so. Me, I'm like a sheeple....the Holy Spirit, said hey you come here a minute, and I went....He called, I went....He didn't have to overcome me...I just minded Him.
Revelation 3:5
He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
He that overcometh.....meaning God did not have to overcome the man to make him come, the man overcame on his own by the power of the Word....the Word of God is a living Word...
Edit to add.....do I believe I overcame on my own power, my own ability, my own wisdom, absolutely not. I heard the word, I recognized the knock, I heard the call, after about the 10th time and I opened the door.....thank you God for your Son Jesus and sending Him to save us and for your mercy in giving me the opportunity to hear the word and to believe.
Last edited:
gemcgrew
Senior Member
Except when that pesky Satan gets in the way.
There is no alternative between a God who is absolutely sovereign and no God at all. A god whose will can be resisted, purpose can be frustrated, power can be thwarted, work can be overturned, has no title to Deity. Such a god is not fit to be worshiped.
atlashunter
Senior Member
Who caused satan?
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?"
- Epicurus
mtnwoman
Senior Member
Really? Well a god that forces you to worship him, not because you love him but because he picked you out of a potluck seems pretty scary to me. And you and you and you and you are gonna love me. Not because I gave you my Son to die for your sins, but because I said so.
mtnwoman
Senior Member
God will do that, He's giving everyone free will to chose right now. One day that will all come to an end...and poof, all sin will be gone, all evil, all tears, all sickness will be gone, right now we're all...everyone...is living on free will to choose good or evil. Evil will someday have no place here. God will destroy that. His mercy and grace is giving everyone time to chose.
atlashunter
Senior Member
Right, in other words God created a being with an evil nature that he knew would rebel against him. It happened according to his will and foreknowledge. That's what it means to be the omnipotent, omniscient, creator of all. The buck stops with you.
Well until that time I suppose it is here according to his will right? Either way the Epicurus quote still applies.
mtnwoman
Senior Member
That quote means nothing to me....jibjab....lol. Guess that's how you feel about the Word, eh?
gemcgrew
Senior Member
God does not need you to love him. God is self sustaining, self sufficient, self existent. He needs nothing. He does not need you.
If it is unfair for God to give mercy to some men, but not all men, would it not be equally unfair for God to give mercy to fallen men if he did not also give mercy to the fallen angels?
mtnwoman
Senior Member
Of course that's why I don't believe in pre selection...that isn't fair, either.
gemcgrew
Senior Member
Are you saying that God is unfair in that he did not also give mercy to the fallen angels?
Fair?
Really? A tornado or a flood or an earthquake or a tsunami or a hurricane drops by, and indiscriminately kills everyone in the path, without first asking who has been ‘Saved’ and should thus be spared. Fair?
Among the words that have little or no meaning, that one is near the top of the list.
Unfortunately, and I apologize for enlightening the naïve and the children here – there is no such thing as ‘FAIR.’
The concept itself is a personal construct, and differs even from person to person – we still live in a world containing humans who ‘Believe’ that stoning people to death for the Sin of adultery, and cutting off their hands for the Sin of theft, is FAIR.
Be serious. The whole ‘Pollyanna’ thing and the Walt Disney happy ending thing has been done to death, and one wins no extra points by pretending to adhere to utopian fantasies at the expense of what has been clearly demonstrated to be true in the here and now.
Live in the world as it actually is, or make your own. And if one wishes to make one’s own, separate from the real one, the rest of us would be gratified if you’d leave us out of it. We’ve already been to Disney World, and didn’t buy a bit of it.
(And, by the way, in order for God to be fair, there would have to be one, which is already a stretch of even Pollyanna’s imagination.)
Really? A tornado or a flood or an earthquake or a tsunami or a hurricane drops by, and indiscriminately kills everyone in the path, without first asking who has been ‘Saved’ and should thus be spared. Fair?
Among the words that have little or no meaning, that one is near the top of the list.
Unfortunately, and I apologize for enlightening the naïve and the children here – there is no such thing as ‘FAIR.’
The concept itself is a personal construct, and differs even from person to person – we still live in a world containing humans who ‘Believe’ that stoning people to death for the Sin of adultery, and cutting off their hands for the Sin of theft, is FAIR.
Be serious. The whole ‘Pollyanna’ thing and the Walt Disney happy ending thing has been done to death, and one wins no extra points by pretending to adhere to utopian fantasies at the expense of what has been clearly demonstrated to be true in the here and now.
Live in the world as it actually is, or make your own. And if one wishes to make one’s own, separate from the real one, the rest of us would be gratified if you’d leave us out of it. We’ve already been to Disney World, and didn’t buy a bit of it.
(And, by the way, in order for God to be fair, there would have to be one, which is already a stretch of even Pollyanna’s imagination.)
gemcgrew
Senior Member
A God who is pleased in crushing and killing his own son will have no problem in sweeping 100,000 people out to sea. Indiscriminate? No. Purposed? Yes.
Agreed. The idea of the created, questioning the Creator in regards to fairness, is absurd.
Last edited:
atlashunter
Senior Member
Free will is irrelevant if you really believe God is omnipotent and omniscient.
Similar threads
