War Between the States

westcobbdog said:

First gent looks like Gen Bate of TN.

Click to expand...

Not Bate. He commanded a brigade of the 6th Georgia Infantry detached from the ANV that was involved in Olustee. He was the "real" and veteran commander of the battle, not the other unseasoned fellow that has the credit as commander. Born in Monroe, Georgia. Rank: Major General. He was the 49th Governor of Georgia and two term US Georgia Senator. He died in office.

Gen Taliferro?(sp)

Great pics, it ain't Gen T. I am afraid.
First two Reb Generals look younger.
Third Reb I don't think I have ever seen before.
Bad at guessing yanks.

I'm at a loss.

First two photos are of the same fellow. Third photo is different fellow. Last fellow is a Federal.

Okay. The first is Major General Alfred H. Colquitt who was the veteran and real commander of Olustee (first two photos). The second fellow is Brigadier General Joe (Joseph) Finegan who is credited with being the commander and was overall commander (third photo). The third fellow is Federal Brigadier General Truman Seymour who was driven back to Jacksonville (last photo).

It is strange to me why a Brigadier would have command over a Major General but I am guessing its because of Finegan's status (attorney, politician, lumber mill operator, slave owner and railroad builder in Florida) more than his rank and his charge over the FL troops. As far as I know it was Finegan's only battle. It is obvious to me who the real commander was in stopping the Federal advance though from what I have read on Olustee.

The battle opened with GA and FL cavalry hammering at Seymour's flanks as his troops moved forward. Then when the cavalry pulled back, his troops got hit with a heavy railroad mortar smashing all those Pine trees into splinters. Then his troops ran smack into all that GA and FL infantry.

The hairdo's thru me off!
Some of General Colquitt's peeps are up here in Marietta Ga.
As you mentioned Finegan's social and economic status played into it as well.

Yall are really puzzling me with all the pics lately, but I am learning more about the war and I appreciate it !!

Here for a short entertainment break is a video about one of the witness trees at Gettysburg.

westcobbdog said:

The hairdo's thru me off!
Some of General Colquitt's peeps are up here in Marietta Ga.
As you mentioned Finegan's social and economic status played into it as well.

Click to expand...

I gave the short and condensed version of the battle. It actually lasted over three days. The first day was the cavalry action. The second day was the mortaring and running into the FL infantry and the GA infantry disembarking from the train and moving into position. The third day was a continuing of the second day only now both FL and GA infantry. Seymour was determined to cut the rail line and march on Tallahassee. To me it should have seemed to him that Beauregard (the overall commander of the Southeast in Charleston) and Milton (FL Governor) were just as determined to stop him given the strength of Southern forces he was running into but Seymour might have been even more reluctant to disengage and risk a rout. But he got driven from the battlefield anyway regardless. No attempt was made to finish Seymour off as he pulled back to Jacksonville. Finegan has always been maligned for not pressing on against Seymour. Finishing off Seymour was not the goal. Keeping the rail line open and protecting Tallahassee was the goal. So I cannot fault Finegan for not pressing on.

Consider also the geography and disposition of troops and you can see that Seymour was at a disadvantage from the beginning. His Federal troops had to march from Jacksonville all the way to Olustee to get to the rail head so they were not fresh. The FL troops did have to march from their staging areas to the rail head but were in position and entrenchments well ahead of the Federals at Olustee but the GA troops rode the train to the rail head so for the most part the Southern troops were fresh and rested. In addition to troops and cavalry, the railroad also afforded the movement and platform for mortars and artillery. If I do not recall about some aspects of the battle then they were most likely not significant to the outcome of the battle. I do not recall reading about Seymour's artillery so it most likely did not play a significant role. I don't recall about his cavalry either so it did not play a significant role or it was blunted given the large GA and FL cavalry and infantry units he was facing. I say blunted because I am not sure (been a long time since I read) if his cavalry was thrown against the FL infantry and blunted on the first or second day (seems like it but I'm not sure). I am just really not sure about the Federal cavalry action if any since it has been a while since I read about the battle. I do not like Wikipathetica's version of the battle or order of battle. There was far more to the battle than it lists and some of it is inaccurate. Read "Confederate Florida: The Road to Olustee" by William H. Nulty. I need to get a copy myself. LOL Although its true that Seymour had been used to facing FL militia and probably thought he was facing militia but what he ran into at Olustee were seasoned veteran regular troops.

Name the battle which had the third highest federal casualty % in a battle in the whole civil war at 27%, hint it was in Fl.

westcobbdog said:

Name the battle which had the third highest federal casualty % in a battle in the whole civil war at 27%, hint it was in Fl.

Click to expand...

The Federals lost about 34% of their troops at Olustee and it was the second bloodiest battle of the war for them. That's about 265 out of 1000. I don't know if it was the third highest casualty rate or not but the Federal losses were the result of fixed entrenched positioning or prepared fighting positions. The GA and FL infantry moved from those initial fixed positions forward to drive the Federals from the field or maybe I should say from the Pine forest. It like a lot battles fought late in the war (think of Cold Harbor) used entrenchments and was the forerunner of what was to come in the trenches of WWI.

RBM said:

The Federals lost about 34% of their troops at Olustee and it was the second bloodiest battle of the war for them. That's about 265 out of 1000. I don't know if it was the third highest casualty rate or not but the Federal losses were the result of fixed entrenched positioning or prepared fighting positions. The GA and FL infantry moved from those initial fixed positions forward to drive the Federals from the field or maybe I should say from the Pine forest. It like a lot battles fought late in the war (think of Cold Harbor) used entrenchments and was the forerunner of what was to come in the trenches of WWI.

Click to expand...

Are the trenches still there?

Resica said:

Are the trenches still there?

Click to expand...

I don't know. I have not been to the battlefield. Its in North FL near I90. I have not been able to find any mention of the entrenchments beyond the actual battle from the State Park Service or the reenactments on the web. The reenactment groups mention reenacting entrenchments but whether or not those are the original I can't say but I do doubt it. I doubt the park service would allow reenactments on the actual battlefield itself. There is a reenactment area. The actual entrenchments might still be there if they have been preserved. But the battle was not fought from the entrenchments. It was fought forward of the entrenchments. You might glean something from this site sifting through the links.

http://www.battleofolustee.org/

http://www.battleofolustee.org/battle.html

Most of the accounts I have read on the web are the short versions of the battle. The one in the above link is no different. Maybe I should have said the events surrounding the actual battle was over a three day period but the battle itself was about five hours. It takes time to build entrenchments and get 5,000 men into the line and position. On the other side it takes time to feed 5,500 men into the line and position. Add cavalry and artillery. I did find in the links that the Federal cavalry was blunted by the FL and GA cavalry and the Federal artillery (some of it) was overrun and captured. So my memory isn't that bad...yet. LOL

Thanks for the info. Would like the ability to go back in time and witness all of these battles in person as an observer, not a combatant.

Resica said:

Thanks for the info. Would like the ability to go back in time and witness all of these battles in person as an observer, not a combatant.

Click to expand...

Provost Marshall would have you in rank in no time!

This tour guide service for the battlefield mentions Confederate trench remains. So it seems likely they are still there if they are a point of interest in the tour.

http://www.floridaconfederate.com/default.asp?10

Up here in NW Metro Atl. from Paulding County eastward to Kennesaw Mountain and beyond literally every hill was defended.

Olustee would later give way to Cold Harbor trenches or earthworks. Grant had big trouble in the Overland or Wilderness Campaign where he lost around 55,000 and on the other side 33,600. While Grant could replace the losses and Lee could not, Grant's problem was those used for replacements. Green unseasoned troops and artillery troops scraped from Washington D.C.'s defenses hardly constitute real seasoned regular infantry. Lee had Hoke's men and others brought up from State defenses that were seasoned regular troops in strong defensive positions. So Grant's troops got slaughtered at Cold Harbor. He outnumbered Lee by almost twice as many but lost 12,737 to Lee's 5,287.

Have been to Olustee many times and have worked a good bit in the Osceola Forest around there. Never heard of any surviving trenches--but there could be some.

Most of that area was completely cleared after the war and replanted in pines for turpentine. Hardly a square inch in that whole forest has been left alone. I'd be real interested to see those trenches they're talking about.

Apparently all of the dead US troops (mostly black guys) were buried in big mass graves near where they fell. At least one of these pits is right beneath the field where they hold the annual reenactment.

Clifton Hicks said:

Have been to Olustee many times and have worked a good bit in the Osceola Forest around there. Never heard of any surviving trenches--but there could be some.

Most of that area was completely cleared after the war and replanted in pines for turpentine. Hardly a square inch in that whole forest has been left alone. I'd be real interested to see those trenches they're talking about.

Apparently all of the dead US troops (mostly black guys) were buried in big mass graves near where they fell. At least one of these pits is right beneath the field where they hold the annual reenactment.

Click to expand...

I haven't been there to see the trenches either. But unless they were very deep walking depth trenches they would be no more in appearance than a terrace today.

Map of the Battle of Olustee (also called Ocean Pond). Based on a sketch by Confederate Lieutenant M. B. Grant. If the map can be trusted as being accurate.

Notice the "Proposed line of work" outlined in red. This was in front of the Olustee Station and far back from the battlefield. This is suppose to be the trench work line running from Ocean Pond and just behind and along the "Impracticable Cypress Pond" more than likely swamp or bayhead. There are two bayheads located above the battlefield and marked as BAY.



http://www.museumoffloridahistory.com/exhibits/permanent/civilwar/olustee.cfm