The unpardonable sin

I know the unpardonable sin is blaspheming the Holy Ghost, but I don't understand what exactly that entails. How would someone do this? And did we not all do this before we were called out of darkness?

welderguy said:

I know the unpardonable sin is blaspheming the Holy Ghost, but I don't understand what exactly that entails. How would someone do this? And did we not all do this before we were called out of darkness?

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Well I googled your topic... seems your question has been posed and answered sideways, up and down for many yrs with all kinds of responses.

On the the question of "did we not all do this"... I would say before we were called I would say no. We cannot refuse to repent or to willfully grieve the Holy Spirit when we are not aware of His presence intimate in our lives.

It seems to me that there must be willful disregard and disrespect of God known to be with you. Or, God is sold, or purposely trampled on for a trinket... such as a meal, pride and a stupid philosophy. To trade one's faith for a life of peace and quiet for a nice piece of real estate. In the name of poor health, or any other name, to totally ignore what God wills you to do. The deal maker must know to walk with God... for it to be unforgivable.

Maybe...

welderguy said:

I know the unpardonable sin is blaspheming the Holy Ghost, but I don't understand what exactly that entails. How would someone do this? And did we not all do this before we were called out of darkness?

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https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/The-Unpardonable-Sin

For me, the link is helpful as negative reinforcement, because I don't see the verses as referring to the unpardonable/unforgivable sin, with the exception of Matthew and Mark.

I see the passage (Mat. 12:22-32) as identifying the unpardonable sin as attributing the work of Holy Spirit to Satan. Careful consideration of the manifestations of Satan reveals that identification to be much broader than it first appears; i.e. money over worship, or ego over praise.

Blasphemy of the HS is preachers who essentially say I am your teacher. They deny the new covenant, essentially claiming to be your HS. It's because they are so wise, in their own eyes, impressed with themselves. If you could just be a little more like me, they teach. Everything from when to let your daughter date to what age to discipline a child. If you had seen it to the extent I had, you would know what this blasphemy was. We are supposed to live by the Spirit, yet no preacher teaches you that you are capable of this

"Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven."

First we see this distinction. Why the distinction considering the trinity definition?
Perhaps it is to deny the Holy Spirit when it presents itself.

Careful consideration of the manifestations of Satan reveals that identification to be much broader than it first appears; i.e. money over worship, or ego over praise.

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Blasphemy of the HS is preachers who essentially say I am your teacher. They deny the new covenant, essentially claiming to be your HS. It's because they are so wise, in their own eyes, impressed with themselves. If you could just be a little more like me, they teach. Everything from when to let your daughter date to what age to discipline a child. If you had seen it to the extent I had, you would know what this blasphemy was. We are supposed to live by the Spirit, yet no preacher teaches you that you are capable of this

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To be called, as it were, to live from where one is so greatly desired in such a fire of jealousy as can barely be borne, that one might occupy in a place where one is neither needed nor at all necessary. Living "there" allows for the only One of any and all necessity to be manifest in the place of occupation.


If we may but live in the unbearable fire of His love, Jesus will be seen in a very cold place.

Israel said:

To be called, as it were, to live from where one is so greatly desired in such a fire of jealousy as can barely be borne, that one might occupy in a place where one is neither needed nor at all necessary. Living "there" allows for the only One of any and all necessity to be manifest in the place of occupation.


If we may but live in the unbearable fire of His love, Jesus will be seen in a very cold place.

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Yes; that is the call, and that is the purpose.

Artfuldodger said:

"Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven."

First we see this distinction. Why the distinction considering the trinity definition?
Perhaps it is to deny the Holy Spirit when it presents itself.

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Jesus is willing to bear all despite. And surely to us who believe...He has clearly manifest this. Does this make the Father any less jealous for His name? God forbid!


But upon this basis is our liberty secured in the final sacrifice "Forgive them Father, they know not what they do"...for the sake of the Son, who spoke not one word apart from obedience, nor acted ever less in perfect submission is the very heart of God revealed.

To treat the submission of this One...who humbled Himself in all His being, as yet worthy of contempt is most serious in all consequence. To despitefully refuse the manifestation of the goodness of God...through this man who counted Himself as nothing before His Father is indeed grave...but yet forgivable.


But to refuse the Spirit, that is despitefully treat with contempt what has been made witness through humility to testify of the man of greatest humility (willing to be made as nothing)...that is to "come under" even, in humility to that man that He "will not speak of his own...but testify of me" in such manner the completeness of God will not extend past.

If the righteousness of God is not seen in His commandments (and some through faith appealed), nor yet perceived through the humility of His Son, and further abused by despite to the Spirit that has humbled Himself before the Son to speak only of Him...and now abroad in this place as the waters cover the seas...for such is only a terrible waiting and wandering in a starless night.


But we are convinced of better things...by this same Spirit. Our brothers carry light.

Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is denying the drawing of the spirit into salvation. This doesn't fit Calvinism's rules, so many will have trouble with it.

hobbs27 said:

Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is denying the drawing of the spirit into salvation. This doesn't fit Calvinism's rules, so many will have trouble with it.

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I don't give a hoot about John Calvin's rules, I'm interested in only God's rules.

But according to what you are telling me, God only loves those that initially love Him.
My Bible tells me I love Him because He first loved me. And that if He ever loved me, He will always love me. He does not turn it on and off like a faucet.

I think your answer is correct if you leave out the man's choice part.

welderguy said:

I don't give a hoot about John Calvin's rules, I'm interested in only God's rules.

But according to what you are telling me, God only loves those that initially love Him.
My Bible tells me I love Him because He first loved me. And that if He ever loved me, He will always love me. He does not turn it on and off like a faucet.

I think your answer is correct if you leave out the man's choice part.

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I don't understand how my answer is an answer at all if you leave out man's choice.

You deny the drawing spirit, because God makes you deny His calling you? That's a bit absurd, so I'm sure that isn't your point, is it?

Is it blasphemy if you have not became lost yet?
Once you are lost then I would say you are living in blasphemy until you are saved.
Must be Lost to be saved.

hobbs27 said:

I don't understand how my answer is an answer at all if you leave out man's choice.

You deny the drawing spirit, because God makes you deny His calling you? That's a bit absurd, so I'm sure that isn't your point, is it?

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No, what I'm saying is that the very ones He calls are the very same ones that are also justified (Rom.8:30). So they are not the ones guilty of an unpardonable sin. Otherwise, they could not be justified, agree?

I get the feeling you think it's a universal call, but how could that be so if some have unpardonable sin?

Rom.8:30
"Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified."

j_seph said:

Is it blasphemy if you have not became lost yet?
Once you are lost then I would say you are living in blasphemy until you are saved.
Must be Lost to be saved.

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This seems confused, as if there are three states of existence.
1) not lost yet
2)lost
3)saved

I get 2 and 3 but 1 confuses me.

welderguy said:

This seems confused, as if there are three states of existence.
1) not lost yet
2)lost
3)saved

I get 2 and 3 but 1 confuses me.

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Are we a sinner when we are born, when we are 3 years old? In Deuteronomy 1:39 it states <sup class="versenum">39 </sup>Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it.
If they have no knowledge then they cannot be lost. You cannot be saved if you are not lost to begin with.

j_seph said:

Are we a sinner when we are born, when we are 3 years old? In Deuteronomy 1:39 it states <sup class="versenum">39 </sup>Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it.
If they have no knowledge then they cannot be lost. You cannot be saved if you are not lost to begin with.

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I think you are really stretching the text to get that meaning from it, especially since that would contradict this:

Psalm 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

welderguy said:

No, what I'm saying is that the very ones He calls are the very same ones that are also justified (Rom.8:30). So they are not the ones guilty of an unpardonable sin. Otherwise, they could not be justified, agree?

I get the feeling you think it's a universal call, but how could that be so if some have unpardonable sin?

Rom.8:30
"Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified."

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If they are justified before they are called... How can anyone reject the call ( blaspheme the Holy Spirit)?

hobbs27 said:

If they are justified before they are called... How can anyone reject the call ( blaspheme the Holy Spirit)?

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Not all are justified.

I think maybe what Hobbs is saying is how can one blaspheme the Holy Spirit without ever having the opportunity to know or accept the Holy Spirit? How can one who is totally depraved ever get the chance to do so?
If one doesn't have an effectual calling how can he deny the Holy Spirit?
I would think one would have to have some inkling that the Holy Spirit is viable in order to blaspheme it. Without experiencing it's feeling, how could one deny it?

welderguy said:

I think you are really stretching the text to get that meaning from it, especially since that would contradict this:

Psalm 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

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So are you saying, best of a worst case scenario that a God fearing Pastor of a church that lives as free if sin as possible, lives for the Lord and his wife that walks just as close to the Lord as he could have a baby to get killed that said baby could end up in He77?

How can a 1 year old who knows nothing about the Lord, does not even know how to talk even know it sins, much less pray for forgiveness if it did sin?

Sorry you cannot just read a piece of paper or repeat a prayer after someone if you are not being convicted. Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. Hard to fear what you do not know.