Converting the dying

atlashunter

Senior Member
Am I reading this right - the non believer thinks that for God to exist, then all the bad stuff just goes away? Because bad stuff happens, there can’t be a God?

Nope. The problem of evil is not a rebuttal to the existence of any god. It's a rebuttal to the claim of a god with certain qualities.
 

bullethead

Of the hard cast variety
Parent places a venomous snake in the room with a child. Tells the child not to touch the snake while knowing the child will be curious and touch the snake and knowing the child will die. Stands back and watches the kid touch the snake, get bit, and die. Parent is charged with murder. Parent says the child was warned and it was their choice therefore his hands are clean. Spotlite is on the jury. Reckon how he votes?
He'd vote for the death penalty for the somehow non christian actions of the parent, and then go and pray to his christian god that is a billion times worse than that parent.
 

j_seph

Senior Member
Is god the father and creator of all people?

Would you turn your back to a child of yours if they thought they knew better and left the home at 18 and did thier own thing? Are they still your child and are you still their father?
It takes two to have a relationship
 

atlashunter

Senior Member
Geez you are pretty good at painting a ghastly picture :bounce:
You've actually got me angry.
And the kicker is, you aren't even having to stretch the truth based on Christian beliefs.

It barely scratches the surface when you consider the scale and duration of this kind of suffering.

http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/human-fossils/fossils/taung-child

But hey there is good news too. God helped someone find their lost wedding ring on the beach. Proof of his goodness.
 

bullethead

Of the hard cast variety
It takes two to have a relationship

It take common sense to be able to see the difference between a relationship between two humans and a relationship with an omniscient being that is supposed to have created humans in his image and is claimed to love them.

So jseph, if your child goes their seperate way because of a falling out between you both and you never see him or her again would you stop loving them and sentence them to eternal torture for not acknowledging you even though they are a decent human being?
 

WaltL1

Senior Member
Parent places a venomous snake in the room with a child. Tells the child not to touch the snake while knowing the child will be curious and touch the snake and knowing the child will die. Stands back and watches the kid touch the snake, get bit, and die. Parent is charged with murder. Parent says the child was warned and it was their choice therefore his hands are clean. Spotlite is on the jury. Reckon how he votes?
Well I know how I would hope he votes.
And interestingly, what would make the parent subject to murder charges?
The KNOWING.
 

WaltL1

Senior Member
It takes two to have a relationship
Or one of them imagining there is a relationship. To the one doing the imagining there actually IS a relationship.
Happens a lot when one is infatuated with someone else.
 

bullethead

Of the hard cast variety
It take common sense to be able to see the difference between a relationship between two humans and a relationship with an omniscient being that is supposed to have created humans in his image and is claimed to love them.

So jseph, if your child goes their seperate way because of a falling out between you both and you never see him or her again would you stop loving them and sentence them to eternal torture for not acknowledging you even though they are a decent human being?
Chirp chirp chirp....
 

Spotlite

Resident Homesteader
I guess you don't realize that South Sudan is predominantly Christian.

I realize that. Genesis, Ezekiel and Isaiah talks about Sudan, further demonstrates free will and reaping what you sow.
 

Spotlite

Resident Homesteader
You can't.
Why not?
Because there is no comparison you can make where one of the participants is Omni-everything.
It changes the whole ball game.

Yup. I realize it’s a poor and weak analogy for comparison. But to relate, it was worth a shot.
 

Spotlite

Resident Homesteader
Is god the father and creator of all people?

Would you turn your back to a child of yours if they thought they knew better and left the home at 18 and did thier own thing? Are they still your child and are you still their father?

Absolutely I’m still my child’s Father. Making a mistake and being accountable for it is different than rejecting your parents and isolating yourself from them. What can you actually do if your child rejected you?
 

bullethead

Of the hard cast variety
Yup. I realize it’s a poor and weak analogy for comparison. But to relate, it was worth a shot.

By now, you have to know that we are too sharp to let an answer go that is just there to fill space in the hopes that nobody calls you on it.

It seems that you realize how terrible a supposed all knowing and all powerful beings actions are and to compensate you try to play it down with comparisons that are nowhere close to the actual ones being discussed.
 

bullethead

Of the hard cast variety
Absolutely I’m still my child’s Father. Making a mistake and being accountable for it is different than rejecting your parents and isolating yourself from them. What can you actually do if your child rejected you?

I would make an effort to let them know that while they may feel that they need their space and i am not a part of it, I am here if they need me.

If your child rejected you would you send them to burn eternally if you had that power?
 

WaltL1

Senior Member
Absolutely I’m still my child’s Father. Making a mistake and being accountable for it is different than rejecting your parents and isolating yourself from them. What can you actually do if your child rejected you?
Take a great vacation, buy some guns etc with all the money you'll save in the long run :bounce:
 

bullethead

Of the hard cast variety
Spotlite, how would you handle a child that rejects you?
Would you say that they were never your child to begin with?
Would they need to be punished?
How would you punish them?
What is a fitting punishment?
 

PopPop

Gone But Not Forgotten
The universe, our planet, the seasons, atoms, molecules, starving children, good men with terminal cancer, bad men with great health, Heaven or Hades?
My mind is is small, I'll take the safe bet. The intelligent bet.
 

WaltL1

Senior Member
The universe, our planet, the seasons, atoms, molecules, starving children, good men with terminal cancer, bad men with great health, Heaven or Hades?
My mind is is small, I'll take the safe bet. The intelligent bet.
Wouldn't the safest and most intelligent bet be to believe in ALL the gods?
 

atlashunter

Senior Member
I realize that. Genesis, Ezekiel and Isaiah talks about Sudan, further demonstrates free will and reaping what you sow.

What exactly did the child in that picture sow? You really gonna double down on this?
 

j_seph

Senior Member
It take common sense to be able to see the difference between a relationship between two humans and a relationship with an omniscient being that is supposed to have created humans in his image and is claimed to love them.

So jseph, if your child goes their seperate way because of a falling out between you both and you never see him or her again would you stop loving them and sentence them to eternal torture for not acknowledging you even though they are a decent human being?

Chirp chirp chirp....

Patience is a virtue bullethead, quit chirping:D
So lets see, I don't have a child however I do have 3 beautiful step kids. Matter of fact one of them was turned against his mom by his daddy and we hardly ever see or hear a word. No I would not nor would his mom quit loving him nor sentence them to eternal torture. However it takes 2 to have a relationship as I mentioned prior to this. We can send messages, letters, emails to him and call him. We cannot make him answer the phone or reply back to us. However any given time he needs something(not often) and reaches out we are there to make it happen and take care of it. Just in the last 2 years I have watched him grow farther from his mom and less and less contact with her. Kind of goes along with what bible mentions of heart growing hard creating more and more distance and resistance to be close with his mom. Even though he has seen what his dad done to his mom, and knows it was not right he was lead by another(his dad) or in a biblical sense, led by the world. To hear a mom say she would give her life for her child and he won't even try to have a relationship with her is pretty deep.
So see we have myself and my wife who are there for him, we can knock all day but he has to open that door. Until he is ready to make that first step away from his dad(the world) there cannot be a relationship. We cannot advise him not to do this or that because he will not seek council with us. He seeks it from his dad(the world) and probably why in the last 2 years his grades have went from straight A and B to C and D. He chose the wrong path that was broad instead of the narrow way. Had he seeked council with us we could have helped him maintain those grades. God help where he could end up if he doesn't get on that narrow path but we can do nothing but pray for him and her ex. The Ex was called to preach, stood 2 times and said this ain't for me. He lost his business, where he lived, the most caring, nourishing wife anyone could ever have. All of the problems and issues started right after he quit obeying God. Prayers have went up that their beds be hard and their sheets be short that both of them will do what they know in their hearts to be right. Last time I seen her Ex at a wedding he could hardly get around. Done Rambling
 
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