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  #876  
Old 07-30-2017, 01:58 PM
welderguy welderguy is offline
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Welder, I can see similarities of the man of lawlessness and the anti Christ John speaks of, but I don't know the two are the same either.

Your concern of a falling away first before the man of lawlessness is revealed is an easy problem to solve.

He was to sit in the Temple. The Temple was destroyed in 70ad, this places the revealing pre 70 ad, unless you hold to the dispensationalist view that a third temple will be built.

Matthew 24 shows the same falling away prior to the temple destruction.

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another

11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
First, I believe the temple in Thess. that Paul speaks of is the body, not a physical temple of brick and mortar. It's of the spiritual nature.

Second, there was a falling away going on in Paul's day, but he alludes to a coming greater falling away which is future.
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  #877  
Old 07-30-2017, 02:27 PM
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First, I believe the temple in Thess. that Paul speaks of is the body, not a physical temple of brick and mortar. It's of the spiritual nature.

Second, there was a falling away going on in Paul's day, but he alludes to a coming greater falling away which is future.
So it's your view that the man of lawlessness is going to replace God and sit on His throne in the bodies of Christians? I don't want to put words in your mouth, so can you explain how that is going to work exactly?
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  #878  
Old 07-30-2017, 02:51 PM
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So it's your view that the man of lawlessness is going to replace God and sit on His throne in the bodies of Christians? I don't want to put words in your mouth, so can you explain how that is going to work exactly?
There are many that buy into the prevalent world view systems. They are lovers of pleasure more than lovers of God. They have waxed cold. In effect, they have dethroned God in their hearts. Paul says if it were possible, even the very elect would be deceived. They may be for a season but it's not possible for them ultimately. (none can be plucked from His hand).
But "he that letteth will let". God will allow it for a while. But the end is not yet.
God is long-suffering , not willing that any should perish. That's any of His elect.
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  #879  
Old 07-30-2017, 03:27 PM
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http://donkpreston.com/the-great-apo...thessalonians/
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  #880  
Old 07-30-2017, 07:22 PM
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So nothing is really literal or physical. It is all about metaphors, multiple interpretations, and embellishment.

This makes more sense to me than taking the bible AS the direct undisputed, mean what he says word of god.
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  #881  
Old 07-30-2017, 08:05 PM
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So nothing is really literal or physical. It is all about metaphors, multiple interpretations, and embellishment.

This makes more sense to me than taking the bible AS the direct undisputed, mean what he says word of god.
It's not one or the other, it's a combination. Prophesy is usually very figurative. It's Hebraic apocalyptic language. It's funny how some people demand a strict literal interpretation of the second coming and day of the Lord, yet read and accept the obvious figurative languages of what we all agree are past days of the Lord.

When Micah prophesied of the destruction in 586 bc he said God would come down and the mountains would melt under His feet. There's many more figurative examples, when compared to the destruction in 70ad , it's just as figurative. It's foolish to deny the language.
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  #882  
Old 07-30-2017, 08:21 PM
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That's a nice buffet to choose from. Something for everybody.
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  #883  
Old 07-30-2017, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by hobbs27 View Post
It's not one or the other, it's a combination. Prophesy is usually very figurative. It's Hebraic apocalyptic language. It's funny how some people demand a strict literal interpretation of the second coming and day of the Lord, yet read and accept the obvious figurative languages of what we all agree are past days of the Lord.

When Micah prophesied of the destruction in 586 bc he said God would come down and the mountains would melt under His feet. There's many more figurative examples, when compared to the destruction in 70ad , it's just as figurative. It's foolish to deny the language.
Why would God have anyone prophesied anything?

On this day the Lord said this will happen, this person named _____ is going to do it and it will be exactly at this hour and minute. Or any other combo of precise and concise detail thay a god would know.

Foolish would be to deny these writings are anything but a culture trying to glorify it's history with religion just like all other cultures did.
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  #884  
Old 08-03-2017, 01:32 PM
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Well my wife was diagnosed Stage 2 diastolic heart failure about 1 1/2 to 2 year ago She would walk to mailbox and back out of breathe. She had her test done today and they asked why was she there, she explained and they told her they could not see anything wrong with her heart. Wait, she was taking diuretics a year ago every other day for water retention. Yet today she can walk 5 to 10 miles, no diuretics and her heart looks normal? Yeah, that's my God with a big "G". Keep praying for y'all
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  #885  
Old 08-03-2017, 01:52 PM
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Well my wife was diagnosed Stage 2 diastolic heart failure about 1 1/2 to 2 year ago She would walk to mailbox and back out of breathe. She had her test done today and they asked why was she there, she explained and they told her they could not see anything wrong with her heart. Wait, she was taking diuretics a year ago every other day for water retention. Yet today she can walk 5 to 10 miles, no diuretics and her heart looks normal? Yeah, that's my God with a big "G". Keep praying for y'all
Awesome. If I were you and your wife, I wouldn't go to the doctor ever again. Waste of time and money.
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  #886  
Old 08-03-2017, 02:23 PM
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Well my wife was diagnosed Stage 2 diastolic heart failure about 1 1/2 to 2 year ago She would walk to mailbox and back out of breathe. She had her test done today and they asked why was she there, she explained and they told her they could not see anything wrong with her heart. Wait, she was taking diuretics a year ago every other day for water retention. Yet today she can walk 5 to 10 miles, no diuretics and her heart looks normal? Yeah, that's my God with a big "G". Keep praying for y'all
To say that I am happy for your wife's health improvement is an understatement.

What did your god specifically do that improved her health.?
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  #887  
Old 08-03-2017, 02:56 PM
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To say that I am happy for your wife's health improvement is an understatement.

What did your god specifically do that improved her health.?
For starters the Heart Failure no longer shows up.
She went from 4 to 5 pills per day, depending on the day to only 1 of those. Let's see, our mailbox that would have her out of breathe is 30 yards flat ground, and we can on any given day make a 2 mile walk at a fast pace without issues. Even her doctor asked her last visit what had she done to change her report then, compared to the prior visit because he could not explain it either. Why the meds she had to take to keep her BP in check for a year had all of a sudden caused it to be dangerously low and without them it was good.
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  #888  
Old 08-03-2017, 03:05 PM
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For starters the Heart Failure no longer shows up.
She went from 4 to 5 pills per day, depending on the day to only 1 of those. Let's see, our mailbox that would have her out of breathe is 30 yards flat ground, and we can on any given day make a 2 mile walk at a fast pace without issues. Even her doctor asked her last visit what had she done to change her report then, compared to the prior visit because he could not explain it either. Why the meds she had to take to keep her BP in check for a year had all of a sudden caused it to be dangerously low and without them it was good.
I understand the changes.
What exactly did your god do that is evidence of a gods actions?
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  #889  
Old 08-03-2017, 03:10 PM
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Has her weight changed? Eating habits the same?
Smoker? Quit?
Exercise habits?
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  #890  
Old 08-03-2017, 03:12 PM
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I understand the changes.
What exactly did your god do that is evidence of a gods actions?
We have prayed for this, we have walked closer with him since all this had started, he answered prayers we have asked.
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  #891  
Old 08-03-2017, 03:15 PM
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Has her weight changed? Eating habits the same?
Smoker? Quit?
Exercise habits?
Actually my wife ran 3 to 5 miles per day a year before all this started.
Never smoked
Dyostolic heart failure comes from one side of heart not relaxing to draw in enough blood in order to replenish what it just pumped through.
She actually gained weight in the last year, and does not exercise.
Eating habits have not changed.
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  #892  
Old 08-03-2017, 03:43 PM
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Actually my wife ran 3 to 5 miles per day a year before all this started.
Never smoked
Dyostolic heart failure comes from one side of heart not relaxing to draw in enough blood in order to replenish what it just pumped through.
She actually gained weight in the last year, and does not exercise.
Eating habits have not changed.
Let me see if I have this straight so far.
Your wife was able to run 3-5 niles per day prior.
Within a year she was unable to to walk to the mailbox without stopping to catch her breath.
She was diagnosed with Stage 2 Diastolic Heart Faliure.
She took 4 to 5 doses of medicine a day for a year.(do you know what they were?)
She still takes 1 a day (do you know what it is?)
From her last checkup to the one previously she is totally healed and has no heart disease?
She was fairly fit but has gained weight since not being able to run.
She never smoked.
She eats as normally would. Would you consider that a healthy diet or somewhat moderate of a variety of everything or unhealthy but has not changed?

Is this correct?
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  #893  
Old 08-03-2017, 03:43 PM
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Awesome. If I were you and your wife, I wouldn't go to the doctor ever again. Waste of time and money.
That's what I'm thinking. This is proof. Couldn't possibly have a natural explanation.
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  #894  
Old 08-03-2017, 03:46 PM
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I wonder why it is that god heals hearts but never restores missing limbs? God must hate amputees.
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  #895  
Old 08-03-2017, 04:03 PM
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Jseph, has she had the same cardiologist through the whole ordeal?
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  #896  
Old 08-03-2017, 11:57 PM
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Jseph, has she had the same cardiologist through the whole ordeal?
Yes she has from day 1 when she was carried to ER with a BP of 180 something over 150 something and was actually having trouble seeing due to BP so high
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