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  #76  
Old 01-26-2018, 04:48 PM
1gr8bldr 1gr8bldr is offline
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Originally Posted by Artfuldodger View Post
Acts 7:55
But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God.

There is only one throne in Heaven and God sits on it. Jesus sits at his right hand. Eventually Jesus will return his Kingdom to his Father and once again be at his Father's right hand.

This happened at his ascension.

Ephesians 1:20-23
that raised Christ from the dead and seated him in the place of honor at God's right hand in the heavenly realms.21 Now he is far above any ruler or authority or power or leader or anything else--not only in this world but also in the world to come.22And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church,

Maybe this is the human part of Jesus sitting at the right hand. The human spirit. The human soul. I guess one could believe he parked his body at the gates of Heaven if one doens't believe Heaven to be a physical place.
Still no matter how you look at it spiritual or physical, Jesus is sitting next to his Father. He's got to be somewhere. He was a man even if God. Once he became a man, he picked up a human soul/spirit along with a body.
All of that human part of Jesus has to be somewhere even if it is just spiritual. I don't have a problem believing that it is just spiritual but still the man Jesus, the Son Jesus has to be somewhere.
God the Father in the center, Jesus on the right and the 3rd person, the Holy Spirit on his left. What a mess
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  #77  
Old 01-26-2018, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Artfuldodger View Post
Even if God incarnate, Jesus was incarnate as a human man. That is more than just flesh. He was 100% man. He was born with everything I have.
Now he may have had more in relation to divinity but he definitely had a human soul.
If Christ didnít have a human soul, He wasnít fully human. If Christ didnít assume a human soul, He didnít redeem human souls. If Christ didnít have a human soul, He couldnít suffer or die. He had to be capable of sin. He had to take on our sin.

1 Peter 3:18
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, 19So he went and preached to the spirits in prison-

This part of Jesus that was still Jesus and separate from his Father's did this.
Again, maybe this was his human soul or spirit.
no, your Human soul your eternal spirit unique from God's creation. It is how you know God
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  #78  
Old 01-26-2018, 06:04 PM
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Somewhat related and as we discussed, let's assume like Jesus that we preexisted. We can see that perhaps as spirits we also had gender. Jesus was a Son. So if his or our pre-existance is true, or Jesus pre-existed, spirits have gender. Jesus didn't become the Son at his incarnation, he already was the Son. This is a basic Trinity belief.
I would assume that once we get to the afterlife we will still be either adopted sons or daughters even as spirits.

Whatever Jesus was before he came to the earth, his body was still created just as ours was. He became a male human.

Just how far can one loose who they were as a human once their spirit leaves their body, I don't know. I would venture to bet Jesus is still the Son of God today in Heaven even if he no longer has a human body.
The Trinity is still in place. It didn't change to a Oneness once the Son ascended.

Was it a Oneness until Jesus came to the earth and it changed to a Trinity until he ascended and now it's back to a Oneness? I don't think so.
your soul was created., Your body was formed from the earth. His soul is God, His body was formed same as you
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  #79  
Old 01-26-2018, 06:06 PM
marketgunner marketgunner is offline
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Jesus want the disciples to be God too;

John 17:21
that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

Another verse showing that God sent Jesus. Jesus did not send himself.
Sure, God reference Himself on the cross,
Jesus and the Father both send the Holy Spirit
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  #80  
Old 01-26-2018, 06:07 PM
marketgunner marketgunner is offline
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Spirits have no gender, no reproduction is necessary.

Same as angels

Mat 22:30

For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven
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  #81  
Old 01-26-2018, 06:36 PM
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God the Father in the center, Jesus on the right and the 3rd person, the Holy Spirit on his left. What a mess
Is there ever any mention of us seeing the Holy Spirit in Heaven as a separate persona? Who do you think we'll see in Heaven? Maybe see is the wrong word. Who will we experience? God and Jesus? Just God through Jesus? Just God?

Last edited by Artfuldodger; 01-26-2018 at 07:00 PM.
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  #82  
Old 01-26-2018, 06:38 PM
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no, your Human soul your eternal spirit unique from God's creation. It is how you know God
I know you said that our spirits pre-existed. You think they were eternal and unique from God's creation? That God only created our human souls and flesh?
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  #83  
Old 01-26-2018, 06:40 PM
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Spirits have no gender, no reproduction is necessary.

Same as angels

Mat 22:30

For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven
What about the Son? He pre-existed as a Son.
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  #84  
Old 01-26-2018, 06:42 PM
1gr8bldr 1gr8bldr is offline
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Is there ever any mention of us seeing the Holy Spirit in Heaven as a separate persona? Who do you think we'll see in Heaven?
No mention of the HS in heaven. Why would this be that the Trinity turns to a Binity? I thought he was a coequal 3rd person? Yet he ceases to exist in heaven????
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  #85  
Old 01-26-2018, 06:44 PM
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your soul was created., Your body was formed from the earth. His soul is God, His body was formed same as you
And that is all it took to make Jesus human? Just a body. I can't imagine Jesus being born of a human mother not having a human soul. He did at least have a human mind, correct?
What part of Jesus, separate from his Father went to witness after his physical death and before his resurrection?

A human man without his own soul. To quote builder "what a mess."

Last edited by Artfuldodger; 01-26-2018 at 08:06 PM.
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  #86  
Old 01-26-2018, 07:02 PM
Banjo Picker Banjo Picker is offline
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Default Jesus Christ Is Not the Father or the Holy Ghost

Even demons knew that Jesus was not the Father, for they called Him "the Son of God," thus demonstrating sense enough to know there must be a separate person from the Son if there was a Father who had a Son. They also called Him Christ, thus proving they had sense enough to know there had to be someone else to anoint Him and made Him the Christ, or the anointed of God (Luke 4:34, 41).

Last edited by Banjo Picker; 01-27-2018 at 10:24 PM.
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  #87  
Old 01-26-2018, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Artfuldodger View Post
And that is all it took to make Jesus human? Just a body. I can't imagine Jesus being born of a human mother not having a human soul. He did at least have a human mind, correct?
What part of Jesus, separate from his Father went to witness after his physical death and before his resurrection?

A human man without his own soul. To quote builder "what a mess."
He had to have a human mind, like us. He was tempted like us. He grew tired like us. When we have a little voice or conscience to go good, In Jesus, I believe it was God
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  #88  
Old 01-26-2018, 09:11 PM
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Why did Jesus have a star?
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  #89  
Old 01-27-2018, 10:22 PM
Banjo Picker Banjo Picker is offline
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Default Jesus Christ Is Not the Father or the Holy Ghost

John the Baptist knew the Father, but he did not know the Son in the wilderness, for "the word of God." or of a person called God, came to him in the wilderness while Jesus was still at Nazareth and told him how he would know the Son (Luke 3:2; John 1:31-34). Shall we believe that the inner man of Jesus was in the wilderness speaking to John while only the body of Jesus was at Nazareth dead? (death is the separation of the inner man from the body, James 2:26 ). Shall we also believe that the Father God and all of God was in the womb of Mary and yet filled John the Baptist at the same time? If John was filled with the Holy Ghost all these years as is clear from Luke 1:15, if he did not know Jesus, and if he was not filled with Jesus, then Jesus could not be the Holy Ghost. If John knew the Father and not the Son, knew God and not Jesus, then Jesus could not be the Father and the God that John knew. There must have been one person called God that John knew and there must have been another person called Jesus, who was also Deity, that John did not know, thus proving two persons. If he was filled with the Holy Ghost and knew God as a separate person from the Holy Ghost and did not know Jesus who was still another separate person, then there must be three persons in the Godhead called "the father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost," as plainly stated in 1 John 5:7, 8; Matt. 28:19; Eph. 4:4-8; 2 Cor. 13:14; 1 Cor. 8; Rev. 1:4-6.
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  #90  
Old 01-28-2018, 05:20 PM
marketgunner marketgunner is offline
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John the Baptist knew the Father? John obeyed God

He knew "Behold the Lamb of God who taket away the sin of the World"

God who became the Son was a Human, not the entire God head. separable.

John lepted in the womb when Jesus , yet unborn, was brought near.


God knows all.

The Holy Spirit was not widely distributed until Pentecost.
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  #91  
Old 01-28-2018, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Artfuldodger View Post
And that is all it took to make Jesus human? Just a body. I can't imagine Jesus being born of a human mother not having a human soul. He did at least have a human mind, correct?
What part of Jesus, separate from his Father went to witness after his physical death and before his resurrection?

A human man without his own soul. To quote builder "what a mess."
https://www.desiringgod.org/articles...be-god-and-man

https://carm.org/jesus-two-natures

https://answersingenesis.org/jesus-c...-human-nature/
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  #92  
Old 02-03-2018, 02:17 PM
Banjo Picker Banjo Picker is offline
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Default Jesus Christ Is Not the Father or the Holy Ghost

God "gave his only begotten Son" but He Himself remained in Heaven: so there must be two separate persons referred to in John 3:16-18, 31-36; Matt. 5:45-48; 18:19, If it is true, as some argue, that God the Father is the inner man of Jesus and the son was the body of Jesus, that God the Father gave Himself and died Himself, and that the Father inside of Jesus could say of Himself , created the body you see. I am the Father and this body is my Son," then the phrase "Son of God" should be understood as body of God; "sons of God " should be bodies of God; "my Son" should be My body; "my sons" should be My bodies; "his Son" should be His body "his sons" should be His bodies; and "thy sons" should be Thy bodies. It should make sense in every Scripture to substitute "body" for "Son" and "Son for "body." Try "body" for "Son" in Matt. 11:27; John 1:18; 3:16-18; 35-36; 5:21; 25-26; 10:36; Acts 3:13; 8:37; 9:20; Gal. 2:20; Rom. 1:9; 5:10; 8:29; Heb. 1:2; 11:17, and see how ridiculous such and idea is.

If the body of Jesus was the son of Jesus, and the inner man of Jesus was the Father of Jesus, then how could the Father say to the body, "I am the Son [body] of God? If the Father inside was talking to the Son outside, then the body could not be the Son. How could the Son [body] be called "Jesus" as in Matt. 1:21; 8:29; Mark 1:1; Acts 8:37; 1 Cor. 1:9; 1 John 1:3, 7; 3:23; 5:20; 2 John 3, and "Christ" as in Matt. 16:16; 22:42; 26:63; Luke 4:4; John 20:31; if these two names have been the names of the Father from all eternity, as some argue. The Son [body] had a beginning in Mary 1900 years ago. These names were not the names of God from all eternity, for they were names given to the Son when He was born about 1900 years ago. Not one time are these names used of either person of the Godhead until Jesus was born and anointed by God the Father.

Last edited by Banjo Picker; 04-14-2018 at 07:59 PM.
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  #93  
Old 04-14-2018, 08:19 PM
Banjo Picker Banjo Picker is offline
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Default Jesus Christ Not the Father or the Holy Ghost

The word "Jesus" was the human name given to the son of Mary eight days after He was born (Matt. 1:16, 21; Luke 1:31-35; 2:21). It was and is still a common name like John, James, and other names, Josephus mentions thirteen men who are called Jesus. Several are mentioned in the New Testament (Acts 7:45; 13:6; Col. 4:11; Heb. 4:8; Matt. 1:21). Several in the Old Testament are called "Joshua" and "Jeshua" and hundreds of people throughout history have been called Jesus and Joshua. If the New Testament had been written in Hebrew instead of Greek Jesus would have been called Joshua. The word "Jesus" is not an heavenly or divine name. It is and earthly human name given to the second person of the Godhead when he became a man. Therefore, it is His name as a man and not, His name as God.

"a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth" (2 Tim. 2:15).
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  #94  
Old 04-14-2018, 10:55 PM
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The word "Jesus" was the human name given to the son of Mary eight days after He was born (Matt. 1:16, 21; Luke 1:31-35; 2:21). It was and is still a common name like John, James, and other names, Josephus mentions thirteen men who are called Jesus. Several are mentioned in the New Testament (Acts 7:45; 13:6; Col. 4:11; Heb. 4:8; Matt. 1:21). Several in the Old Testament are called "Joshua" and "Jeshua" and hundreds of people throughout history have been called Jesus and Joshua. If the New Testament had been written in Hebrew instead of Greek Jesus would have been called Joshua. The word "Jesus" is not an heavenly or divine name. It is and earthly human name given to the second person of the Godhead when he became a man. Therefore, it is His name as a man and not, His name as God.

"a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth" (2 Tim. 2:15).
I think most Trinitarians would agree that Jesus is the name given to the second person of the Godhead when he became a man.

The only ones that believe the Father became Jesus are of the Oneness belief.

What was the second person of the Godhead known as before his incarnation? Son perhaps? Christ?
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  #95  
Old 04-14-2018, 11:06 PM
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there are several records of Christ appearing to men in the Old Testament... a couple that come to mind is when he appeared to Abram at his tent, and when he appeared as a burning bush to Moses.

These appearances are called theophanies. Another that just popped in my mind was when Jacob wrestled all night with him.
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  #96  
Old 04-15-2018, 06:19 AM
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Tritheism?
vs.
Omnipresence?


Doctrine of Simplicity.
Doctrine of Inseparable Operations
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  #97  
Old 04-25-2018, 08:59 PM
Banjo Picker Banjo Picker is offline
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Default Jesus Christ Is Not The Father Or The Holy Gost

The word "Christ" literally means "anointed" and is a name applied to Jesus when He became the anointed of God. It is like the word "Jesus" a name of his humanity, and His anointing as a man and not His name as God. It is the same as the Hebrew word translated "Messiah" (Dan. 9:24-27; John 1:41; 4:25). Jesus became the anointed of God or Christ thirty years after He was called Jesus. It was predicted in prophecy that God would make Him the "Anointed" (Ps. 2:1-12; 143:11-18; Isa. 11:1, 2; 42:1-5; 61:1, 2). History records that the time He became the "Anointed" of God was at His baptism (Matt. 3:16, 17; 12:15-20; Luke 3:21, 22; Acts 10:38). Jesus confirmed the time He became God's "Anointed (Luke 4:16-21). Jesus was anointed with the Holy Ghost and not with oil. He was anointed because He was the Son of the Father and it proves two persons-- the one who anointed Him and the one who was anointed. Passages such as Luke 2:26; Gal. 3:17; 1 Pet. 1:11 should be understood in the same sense as we would say that President George Washington was a surveyor. He was not this when he was president, but since he became president we could speak of any event of his life before he became president as what president Washington did. So it is with Christ , Since He became God's Christ we can now speak of Christ doing certain things even before He was anointed.
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  #98  
Old 04-26-2018, 08:32 AM
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What was the second person of the Godhead known as before his incarnation? Son perhaps? Christ?
God
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  #99  
Old 04-26-2018, 01:15 PM
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God
John 17:5
And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.
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Old 04-26-2018, 01:18 PM
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and the Word was...
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