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Old 01-20-2018, 09:40 AM
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Default The Mystery?

Ephesians 3:2-5
2Surely you have heard about the stewardship of Godís grace that was given to me for you, 3that is, the mystery made known to me by revelation, as I have already written briefly. 4In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ,
5which was not made known to men in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to Godís holy apostles and prophets.

The Mystery of the Gospel. The Secret. What's a better word to use to describe the Mystery or secret?
Colossians 1:26
the mystery that has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but is now disclosed to the Lord's people.
"This message was kept secret"

We know that through predestination God had mercy on whom he had mercy. The descendants of Abraham were not physical. It has always been about the children of the promise.
In other words God's election never had anything to do with Jews or Gentiles.

I wonder why God presented this as a mystery? His final plan being the hardening of the Jews to allow salvation to the Gentiles?
Why did God have this elaborate story line pertaining to the Jews and Gentiles when it never was about the Jews and Gentiles?
If it was already set in Word that salvation was to those of the promise. Those predestined. Those who had faith.Those who believe. etc, etc.

Why did God present it as a mystery?

Last edited by Artfuldodger; 01-20-2018 at 10:48 AM.
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Old 01-20-2018, 09:47 AM
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Ephesians 2:12-13
remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.

Ephesians 3:6
This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.

Paul's mystery. I know the word mystery was not the best word they chose to use. Still this revelation or revealing came to Paul later.

There are many verses that say things like; if you are children then you are children. If heirs then heirs.

Why did they not know that? Why did it take revelation form Paul?
If there never was a time when being a child of God had anything to do with being a Jew or Gentile, why didn't they know that?
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Old 01-20-2018, 09:56 AM
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Old Testament verses say things like "all nations" ""every knee"
"all nations are blessed" "all nations will worship" "all the ends of the earth" "every creature" "all of mankind"

"every knee will bow; by me every tongue will swear"

The prophesy alone points that it never was about the Jews or Gentiles.
So were the Gentiles at that time without God and hope as Paul presents in Ephesians? Why does Paul present it as if there was? With him having a revelation from God as such?

Did they have God and hope all along and just didn't know it? Did Paul just deliver through revelation what God already knew but the Gentiles didn't?

It's like Paul woke up one day and says "Hey Gentiles, I just had a revelation that salvation can be preached to you. That you who were once without God and hope can now be offered salvation.
A Remnant was chosen of Israel and the rest were hardened. This allowed salvation to reach the Gentiles. Their failure means riches for the Gentiles.
Their Gospel is now your Gospel.
This was God's plan all along. We just didn't know it at the time. Now it has been revealed to me, Paul."

Did they have salvation and didn't know it? Was this Paul's revelation? Was this the mystery or secret, that the children of the promise as known from before time, were finally being told?
Or were they just now being offered salvation for the first time within time?

Last edited by Artfuldodger; 01-20-2018 at 10:10 AM.
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Old 01-20-2018, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artfuldodger View Post
Ephesians 3:2-5
2Surely you have heard about the stewardship of God’s grace that was given to me for you, 3that is, the mystery made known to me by revelation, as I have already written briefly. 4In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ,
5which was not made known to men in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets.

The Mystery of the Gospel. The Secret. What's a better word to use to describe the Mystery or secret?
Colossians 1:26
the mystery that has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but is now disclosed to the Lord's people.
"This message was kept secret"

We know that through predestination God had mercy on whom he had mercy. The descendants of Abraham were not physical. It has always been about the children of the promise.
In other words God's election never had anything to do with Jews or Gentiles.

I wonder why God presented this as a mystery? His final plan being the hardening of the Jews to allow salvation to the Gentiles?
Why did God have this elaborate story line pertaining to the Jews and Gentiles when it never was about the Jews and Gentiles?
If it was already set in Word that salvation was to those of the promise. Those predestined. Those who had faith.Those who believe. etc, etc.

Why did God present it as a mystery?
"The mystery of Christ" was a surprise for Paul-- Paul who was both Roman and a Jew.

Paul seems to indicate either he overlooked some very significant information in scripture and from his tradition about God redeeming His people.

The mystery of Christ was there all along, it was really not hidden, but what brings it out now for Paul is the Holy Spirit revelation on himself through Christ that was not available to Paul before his conversion.

Also in some important ways Paul himself is part of the mystery of Christ... Paul's whole world, his whole life internally and externally is NEW!

So Paul qualifies the mystery: " was not made known to men in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets."

So I read that the Mystery was there all along and known in part before, but the new revelation available to Christians because of the Church ( ie. apostles and prophets). Note: the apostles were the prophets Paul talks about here as the apostles laid their hands on Timothy in prophecy... as to Tim's gifts within the body. ( There is scripture for this ( Paul gives counsel to Timothy about his gift) but can't remember exactly where... and says the church prophesied on him (Tim) regards his gift.
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Last edited by gordon 2; 01-20-2018 at 11:02 AM.
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Old 01-20-2018, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artfuldodger View Post
Ephesians 2:12-13
remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.

Ephesians 3:6
This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.

Paul's mystery. I know the word mystery was not the best word they chose to use. Still this revelation or revealing came to Paul later.

There are many verses that say things like; if you are children then you are children. If heirs then heirs.

Why did they not know that? Why did it take revelation form Paul?
If there never was a time when being a child of God had anything to do with being a Jew or Gentile, why didn't they know that?

I think some did. They did know. The prophets did I suspect. I doubt that people back then were not so different as some of the "good" people today that are ok with killing one or two that the most shall live and in doing so are killing God.

"" " Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.' ""

The good shepherd ( God) lays down His life for the sheep...


The thing with God and backsliders is that God always comes back... no matter now backsliders think they have done away with Him. I think the prophets knew this assuredly ... and were not afraid to point it out even to people who routinely killed the messenger. The messengers having the Spirit on them were in fact killed because God was on them! because God walked with them, because God was on them! But God came back when they were put to death...
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Old 01-21-2018, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gordon 2 View Post
I think some did. They did know. The prophets did I suspect. I doubt that people back then were not so different as some of the "good" people today that are ok with killing one or two that the most shall live and in doing so are killing God.

"" " Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.' ""

The good shepherd ( God) lays down His life for the sheep...


The thing with God and backsliders is that God always comes back... no matter now backsliders think they have done away with Him. I think the prophets knew this assuredly ... and were not afraid to point it out even to people who routinely killed the messenger. The messengers having the Spirit on them were in fact killed because God was on them! because God walked with them, because God was on them! But God came back when they were put to death...
You stiff-necked people with uncircumcised hearts and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit, just as your fathers did. Which of the prophets did your fathers fail to persecute? They even killed those who foretold the coming of the Righteous One. And now you are His betrayers and murderers ó you who have received the Law ordained by angels, yet have not kept it.Ē

Infuriating!

Who can bear such?

Hard work...either way.

If not received as true testimony...that is, if the soul sets out to refute the most unpleasant of things said to it...sets out as it were to suppress this truth in the unrighteousness of its own ability...O!...what a hard way to go!

"It is hard to kick against the pricks!"

But. How can a soul receive it? What work must have already been done for the soul to say "yes, I am the man!" "Yes, this is true"

"He who falls upon this stone will be broken to pieces, but he upon whom this stone falls shall be crushed to powder" Crushed...broken...such choices! Can't there be a third choice? Might there be just one indulgence? One way to stay intact?

Can't "I"...be different?

Oy! O! Oy!



"There is no other stream"
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I ain't the most self aware man, Bobby, but if I met myself in a dark alley, ain't both of us gunna walk out...and mos' probbly, neither of us" Jimmy "Packrat" Soos, "Partners at the Great Divide"
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Old 01-21-2018, 08:34 AM
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What didn't Jesus tell us?

What did he leave out?

But take you heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.

And now I have told you before it comes to pass, that, when it is come to pass, you might believe.


But I have told you these things so that when their hour comes, you will remember that I told you about them. I did not tell you these things from the beginning, because I was with you


“These things I have spoken to you, that you should not be made to stumble.



But Peter said unto him, Although all shall be offended, yet will not I.
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I ain't the most self aware man, Bobby, but if I met myself in a dark alley, ain't both of us gunna walk out...and mos' probbly, neither of us" Jimmy "Packrat" Soos, "Partners at the Great Divide"
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