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  #126  
Old Yesterday, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by SemperFiDawg View Post
Aaaaaaaand the bristles go up. No need Walt. All I meant by that is that when one posits "No God" it simply means there are logical outworkings from that position. Questions, if you will, that you must provide answers for. Such as What is the meaning of life (if there is one)? Where do we get the notion of justice and morality?, Where do we go after we die (if anywhere)? Where does the appetite for worship come from? Does human life have value, and from where does it come from? etc.

Is that not fact? You tell me.
Itís because atheism is not a belief system that those questions are opened up.
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  #127  
Old Yesterday, 08:42 AM
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Itís because atheism is not a belief system that those questions are opened up.
Whatever.
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  #128  
Old Yesterday, 08:45 AM
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Whatever.
You already have the answers to those questions donít you? All contained in a book that tells you all you need to know about life. Thatís a belief system. We donít have that.
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  #129  
Old Yesterday, 10:13 AM
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You already have the answers to those questions don’t you? All contained in a book that tells you all you need to know about life. That’s a belief system. We don’t have that.
Yet you still have answers to those questions WHICH YOU BELIEVE ARE CORRECT. That was my point. If you believe it it’s a belief system, and it too has implications. I can’t believe something so basic you don’t grasp.

Beliefs form values. Values guide actions. That’s basic truth that transcends whatever one’s beliefs are. Yet you are adamant it doesn’t hold true for Athiest, because “Atheism isn’t a ‘belief system’.” Like I said, whatever. Too silly
to attempt a discussion with.
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  #130  
Old Yesterday, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by SemperFiDawg View Post
Aaaaaaaand the bristles go up. No need Walt. All I meant by that is that when one posits "No God" it simply means there are logical outworkings from that position. Questions, if you will, that you must provide answers for. Such as What is the meaning of life (if there is one)? Where do we get the notion of justice and morality?, Where do we go after we die (if anywhere)? Where does the appetite for worship come from? Does human life have value, and from where does it come from? etc.

Is that not fact? You tell me.
First - no bristles. Was a simple question.
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that you must provide answers for.
I don't feel the need to provide myself with answers to every question just so I can avoid saying "I don't know".
There are many questions that we don't have the answer to. Unless you make one up that you feel comfortable with.
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Such as What is the meaning of life (if there is one)
Whatever meaning we give it.
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Where do we get the notion of justice and morality?
From us.
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Where do we go after we die (if anywhere)?
I don't know.
All I know is I will be going in a big toaster, then into a little container and then my ashes will get scattered at a place I have chosen that is special to me.
If anything happens after that, I/we/man doesn't know.
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Where does the appetite for worship come from?
Good question. I could give answers but they admittedly lead to more questions.
So again I/we/man doesn't know for sure.
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Does human life have value,
Depends on who you ask and who's life you are asking about. I would guess that no matter what a rotten person you may be, you probably have done something at some time that someone would find value in.
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from where does it come from?
It comes from us. We decide what is valuable and what is not.
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  #131  
Old Yesterday, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by SemperFiDawg View Post
Yet you still have answers to those questions WHICH YOU BELIEVE ARE CORRECT. That was my point. If you believe it itís a belief system, and it too has implications. I canít believe something so basic you donít grasp.

Beliefs form values. Values guide actions. Thatís basic truth that transcends whatever oneís beliefs are. Yet you are adamant it doesnít hold true for Athiest, because ďAtheism isnít a Ďbelief systemí.Ē Like I said, whatever. Too silly
to attempt a discussion with.
You said atheism is a belief system. Itís not. It doesnít provide answers to any of those questions. Itís a blank slate and leaves the floor open for atheists to pursue answers. A belief system provides answers. Hereís a book and here are all the answers. Just read it and believe it. We donít have that. We have to think for ourselves.
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  #132  
Old Yesterday, 11:49 AM
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I don't know.
All I know is I will be going in a big toaster, then into a little container and then my ashes will get scattered at a place I have chosen that is special to me.
If anything happens after that, I/we/man doesn't know.
I think it takes some of the mystery away if we ask the same question from a slightly different perspective.

Where do we go after we live?
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  #133  
Old Yesterday, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by atlashunter View Post
You said atheism is a belief system. Itís not. It doesnít provide answers to any of those questions. Itís a blank slate and leaves the floor open for atheists to pursue answers. A belief system provides answers. Hereís a book and here are all the answers. Just read it and believe it. We donít have that. We have to think for ourselves.
Just an observation over the years -
Christians HAVE to make Atheism a belief system. Its the only way they can compare the two. The only way they can work it out is "Atheism tells you this and Christianity tells us this".
If Atheism doesn't "tell you" anything then the whole thing falls apart..... so they have to insist that it does.
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  #134  
Old Yesterday, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by atlashunter View Post
You said atheism is a belief system. It’s not. It doesn’t provide answers to any of those questions. It’s a blank slate and leaves the floor open for atheists to pursue answers. A belief system provides answers. Here’s a book and here are all the answers. Just read it and believe it. We don’t have that. We have to think for ourselves.
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It’s a blank slate and leaves the floor open for atheists to pursue answers.
To what?
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  #135  
Old Yesterday, 01:02 PM
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To what?
To the claims of others and the questions we ask ourselves regarding past beliefs and current thoughts.
Things many people refuse to ask themselves as believers.
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  #136  
Old Yesterday, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by bullethead View Post
To the claims of others and the questions we ask ourselves regarding past beliefs and current thoughts.
Things many people refuse to ask themselves as believers.
That's interesting.

Is there purpose to the asking? If you find answer, is there any consistency?

(And I am going to assume you have only ability to answer for yourself...but...is that wrong?)
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  #137  
Old Yesterday, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Israel View Post
That's interesting.

Is there purpose to the asking? If you find answer, is there any consistency?

(And I am going to assume you have only ability to answer for yourself...but...is that wrong?)
"And ítis of little consequence,"

Ignorantly frustrating when all you ask is for an honest and to the point answer, isn't it?
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  #138  
Old Yesterday, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by WaltL1 View Post
Just an observation over the years -
Christians HAVE to make Atheism a belief system. Its the only way they can compare the two. The only way they can work it out is "Atheism tells you this and Christianity tells us this".
If Atheism doesn't "tell you" anything then the whole thing falls apart..... so they have to insist that it does.

That's also interesting.

Because I do not find myself a subscriber to a "belief system" (really, I don't begin to know what that would mean) I feel no compulsion to approach any according to "it". Mine, or theirs. "Ours" or his, hers, its...etc...



Being aware that this presents certain matters of which I am not unaware, (I have known being escorted from certain meetings, I suppose you'd call them "religious" ones, for simply not sitting when told "it's not OK to stand...when it's time to sit") does not immunize me to also certain accusations. But if a man cannot bear accusation personally (even most personally) I cannot help but wonder which of the many Jesus' preached, it is to which he finds affinity.

The matter of systems is far more than just intricate for they are all equally co-dependent. Position x opposition yields nothing, for in systems each declares a supremacy of origin but denies the most manifest and obvious tenet in all...that position and opposition are regularly changed and exchanged in that co-dependency. Thus Android needs Apple, and vice versa, even (and specifically to) establish supremacy.

I look for (better said, "I have been won to") the supreme needing no such support by "opposition". And I find it always, and only, in the manifestation of the perfect dependency. The One moved by that supremacy unsupported by else, not merely moving "past" opposition, but in that supported moving declares there is nothing of opposition in which "else" might even testify it is needed for support of the supreme.

The supreme is not, cannot be what requires...support. And all that exists in the being of itself that is only possessed through knowledge of opposition or even through its own supposed agreement to the supreme must yield...to the perfect of dependency, or be not...even to itself.

It's a far too terrible thing for a being to find its being...unsecured. Completely unsafe...to itself. But this is what must happen to being that only knows itself by opposition.
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Last edited by Israel; Yesterday at 06:29 PM.
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  #139  
Old Yesterday, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by WaltL1 View Post
First - no bristles. Was a simple question.

I don't feel the need to provide myself with answers to every question just so I can avoid saying "I don't know".
There are many questions that we don't have the answer to. Unless you make one up that you feel comfortable with.

Whatever meaning we give it.

From us.

I don't know.
All I know is I will be going in a big toaster, then into a little container and then my ashes will get scattered at a place I have chosen that is special to me.
If anything happens after that, I/we/man doesn't know.

Good question. I could give answers but they admittedly lead to more questions.
So again I/we/man doesn't know for sure.

Depends on who you ask and who's life you are asking about. I would guess that no matter what a rotten person you may be, you probably have done something at some time that someone would find value in.

It comes from us. We decide what is valuable and what is not.
Agreed. 100%. Again, my point. Everyone has answers or “I don’t knows” to all of the big questions in life. Just don’t tell me it’s not a belief system, if you use it to guide your values because you believe it’s the best answer just because “Athiesm is not a belief system.” It is. It’s just not as rigid as some “ accepted” religions as far as orthodoxy and rigid doctrines. I swear, some times you Athiest are as nuts about being as Anti Religious as some believers are about being dogmatic, legalistic religious. They both throw out the baby with the bath water, because they can’t think past orthodoxy.
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  #140  
Old Yesterday, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by bullethead View Post
"And ítis of little consequence,"

Ignorantly frustrating when all you ask is for an honest and to the point answer, isn't it?
Why do you even bother? If his posts are more than 2 sentences I just ignore them.
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  #141  
Old Yesterday, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by atlashunter View Post
You said atheism is a belief system. It’s not. It doesn’t provide answers to any of those questions. It’s a blank slate and leaves the floor open for atheists to pursue answers. A belief system provides answers. Here’s a book and here are all the answers. Just read it and believe it. We don’t have that. We have to think for ourselves.
It’s a belief that there is no God. That doesn’t absolve it from having to answer the BIG questions of life. The answers to that system of questions form an individuals belief system. If the answer is “I don’t know.” or “We don’t know.” that’s not a STRENGTH, when others can provide rational, intelligible answers.

Atheism weds itself to science with its experiential data and mocks those who can’t provide “concrete proof” of God. YET, YET, when it comes to answering the very biggest questions of life, the ones of infinite importance they retreat into the shell of “I don’t knowism” and feign offence if pushed for a rational defense of their stance on the subjects. Yawn. So predictable, so elementally thoughtless.
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  #142  
Old Yesterday, 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by SemperFiDawg View Post
Agreed. 100%. Again, my point. Everyone has answers or ďI donít knowsĒ to all of the big questions in life. Just donít tell me itís not a belief system, if you use it to guide your values because you believe itís the best answer just because ďAthiesm is not a belief system.Ē It is. Itís just not as rigid as some ď acceptedĒ religions as far as orthodoxy and rigid doctrines. I swear, some times you Athiest are as nuts about being as Anti Religious as some believers are about being dogmatic, legalistic religious. They both throw out the baby with the bath water, because they canít think past orthodoxy.
You are doing exactly what I said to Atlas -
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaltL1
Just an observation over the years -
Christians HAVE to make Atheism a belief system. Its the only way they can compare the two. The only way they can work it out is "Atheism tells you this and Christianity tells us this".
If Atheism doesn't "tell you" anything then the whole thing falls apart..... so they have to insist that it does.
You are insisting Atheism is something its not so that you can compare them.
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Just donít tell me itís not a belief system, if you use it to guide your values because you believe itís the best answer
Atheism is a lack of belief in gods. The end.
There is nothing to use to guide your values. There are no established values of Atheism. Atheism is not meant to provide with you a guide to anything. That's not what Atheism is. That's now what Atheism does. That's not what Atheism is intended to do.
Atheism is not what you are trying to make it be so that you can compare it to Christianity.
You really gotta accept that fact.
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Itís just not as rigid as some ď acceptedĒ religions as far as orthodoxy and rigid doctrines.
WHAT is not rigid? What doctrines?
There isn't any. Again, Atheism is a lack of belief in gods. The end.
Anything else an Atheist may think beyond that is his own personal thoughts. Not "Atheism".
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I swear, some times you Athiest are as nuts about being as Anti Religious as some believers are about being dogmatic, legalistic religious.
You think that because you wont accept that Atheism is not what you are insisting it is.
And I'm not being combative, angry at God, getting advice from the Atheist Handbook, or even bristling.
I'm just sayin'.
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  #143  
Old Yesterday, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by SemperFiDawg View Post
Itís a belief that there is no God. That doesnít absolve it from having to answer the BIG questions of life. The answers to that system of questions form an individuals belief system. If the answer is ďI donít know.Ē or ďWe donít know.Ē thatís not a STRENGTH, when others can provide rational, intelligible answers.

Atheism weds itself to science with its experiential data and mocks those who canít provide ďconcrete proofĒ of God. YET, YET, when it comes to answering the very biggest questions of life, the ones of infinite importance they retreat into the shell of ďI donít knowismĒ and feign offence if pushed for a rational defense of their stance on the subjects. Yawn. So predictable, so elementally thoughtless.
You forgot -
And so honest.
Why do you think "I don't know" is retreating into a shell?
Seems like it takes more gonads to admit that than it does just to pick something that tickles your fancy and insist that its fact, its true..........
Out of curiosity, which do you find to be more "moral" (your favorite subject)? -
I don't know
or
I'm gonna pick what I like, insist its real, expect other people to abide by what I pick, shake my head when they ask me to prove it.....
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  #144  
Old Yesterday, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by SemperFiDawg View Post
If the answer is ďI donít know.Ē or ďWe donít know.Ē thatís not a STRENGTH, when others can provide rational, intelligible answers.
Who are the ďothersĒ, and what are the rational and intelligible answers they provide?

*
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