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  #201  
Old 12-06-2017, 03:57 PM
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By now, you have to know that we are too sharp to let an answer go that is just there to fill space in the hopes that nobody calls you on it.

It seems that you realize how terrible a supposed all knowing and all powerful beings actions are and to compensate you try to play it down with comparisons that are nowhere close to the actual ones being discussed.
No I tried to use something that we both could relate to from the same perspective rather than something that we both look at from different views.

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Take a great vacation, buy some guns etc with all the money you'll save in the long run
Very true !
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Spotlite, how would you handle a child that rejects you?
Would you say that they were never your child to begin with?
Would they need to be punished?
How would you punish them?
What is a fitting punishment?
There’s nothing that my child could ever do that would change my behavior and love towards them. Before this gets too far off on a Cow trail, this was only an analogy of knowing that someone will booger up because they do have a choice. While I feel that way about my child, I don’t feel that way about every child in the neighborhood, they’re not all mine, neither is everyone in the planet a child of God.
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What exactly did the child in that picture sow? You really gonna double down on this?
Read John 9. You know that a Christian is going to view this from a biblical standpoint and “it rains on the just and the unjust”
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  #202  
Old 12-06-2017, 03:57 PM
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I acknowledged the evidence, it indicates polytheism and you extrapolate something else from that. There are archaeological suggestions that we were bred by ancient space travelers and called them gods, I don't dismiss them, I know that I don't know.
Not sure what I extrapolated. The bible makes reference to the god of Abraham as Elyon. We also know that Hebrew is a Canaanite language so it should come as no surprise that their god has common origin. The bible also says Elyon divided the nations according to the number of the gods (plural) and that Yahweh's portion was Israel. That indicates polytheism and it indicates Elyon and Yahweh are distinct deities in that pantheon. If only one of those gods was real which one was it and how do you make that determination?
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  #203  
Old 12-06-2017, 04:00 PM
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Read John 9. You know that a Christian is going to view this from a biblical standpoint and “it rains on the just and the unjust”
Don't give me a bible verse just tell me what that child did to deserve that experience? If the child was reaping what it sowed then what exactly did it sow to deserve that?
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  #204  
Old 12-06-2017, 04:03 PM
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No I tried to use something that we both could relate to from the same perspective rather than something that we both look at from different views.


Very true !

There’s nothing that my child could ever do that would change my behavior and love towards them. Before this gets too far off on a Cow trail, this was only an analogy of knowing that someone will booger up because they do have a choice. While I feel that way about my child, I don’t feel that way about every child in the neighborhood, they’re not all mine, neither is everyone in the planet a child of God.

Read John 9. You know that a Christian is going to view this from a biblical standpoint and “it rains on the just and the unjust”
So not all humans are the children of god.
Interesting

Who created humans again? I want to make sure that I am not missing something.
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  #205  
Old 12-06-2017, 04:15 PM
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Not sure what I extrapolated. The bible makes reference to the god of Abraham as Elyon. We also know that Hebrew is a Canaanite language so it should come as no surprise that their god has common origin. The bible also says Elyon divided the nations according to the number of the gods (plural) and that Yahweh's portion was Israel. That indicates polytheism and it indicates Elyon and Yahweh are distinct deities in that pantheon. If only one of those gods was real which one was it and how do you make that determination?
Forgive me, I thought your were presenting evidence to support the Atheist position. If I mistook you, consider this my apology.
You are an intelligent guy, like many in this sub forum and I enjoy the discussions. I have been told by professionals that I too, am intelligent, very intelligent, though I see evidence everyday to the contrary. The one thing my intelligence has absolutely provided is that none of us actually know very much. We feel pretty smug, comparing ourselves with ancient goat herders and what they wrote, but we are actually barely progressed in real knowledge of our place in the universe.
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  #206  
Old 12-06-2017, 04:32 PM
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Forgive me, I thought your were presenting evidence to support the Atheist position. If I mistook you, consider this my apology.
You are an intelligent guy, like many in this sub forum and I enjoy the discussions. I have been told by professionals that I too, am intelligent, very intelligent, though I see evidence everyday to the contrary. The one thing my intelligence has absolutely provided is that none of us actually know very much. We feel pretty smug, comparing ourselves with ancient goat herders and what they wrote, but we are actually barely progressed in real knowledge of our place in the universe.
Well we could go back and forth as to how much we know and how far or little human knowledge has progressed since the time of those goat herders but we do have common ground I think to acknowledge that there is far more that we have yet to learn. I'll place my chips with reason and observable evidence in that endeavor. Faith has a horrible batting record in that regard.
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  #207  
Old 12-06-2017, 04:57 PM
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mm
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Originally Posted by atlashunter View Post
Well we could go back and forth as to how much we know and how far or little human knowledge has progressed since the time of those goat herders but we do have common ground I think to acknowledge that there is far more that we have yet to learn. I'll place my chips with reason and observable evidence in that endeavor. Faith has a horrible batting record in that regard.
I am not so sure. Take Artic Ice, you would think we could establish how much there is and was, apparently we can not. I do trust my reasoning and the evidence I can observe, finding the observations of evidence and rationale of others to be often tainted or skewed by ideology.
I have seen, on two occasions, intelligently controlled UFOs that could not be of this Earth. What I saw leads me to believe nothing beyond that we simply do not know what that means.
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  #208  
Old 12-06-2017, 04:59 PM
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Forgive me, I thought your were presenting evidence to support the Atheist position. If I mistook you, consider this my apology.
You are an intelligent guy, like many in this sub forum and I enjoy the discussions. I have been told by professionals that I too, am intelligent, very intelligent, though I see evidence everyday to the contrary. The one thing my intelligence has absolutely provided is that none of us actually know very much. We feel pretty smug, comparing ourselves with ancient goat herders and what they wrote, but we are actually barely progressed in real knowledge of our place in the universe.
In a way, that's pretty much exactly what my/our (A/As) argument is.
On a daily basis we get told how, why and by who.
Not as a guess, not as a maybe, not as a theory, not as evidence suggests.... but in fact.

Oh and I assure you, I have never been told by a professional that I am intelligent let alone very intelligent
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  #209  
Old 12-06-2017, 05:52 PM
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In a way, that's pretty much exactly what my/our (A/As) argument is.
On a daily basis we get told how, why and by who.
Not as a guess, not as a maybe, not as a theory, not as evidence suggests.... but in fact.

Oh and I assure you, I have never been told by a professional that I am intelligent let alone very intelligent
I can blame meddlesome teachers, thankfully you were spared, yet the evidence is observable.
I know what transgressions are made by Christians. Just recently a preacher told me I was lost because I don't attend church. This was after his brothers and my good friends funeral. I asked him if he ever prayed with his Brother, you know beyond saying the blessing, he said he had not. I then told him that I did pray with his brother, my friend often, his brother and my friend took great comfort from those occasions and told me so. I informed the Preacherman that I was entirely comfortable in my assessment of my salvation. We Christians are way too often our own worst enemy.
I was raised in the Baptist Church, turned away from it and faith completely. I embraced Science and Scientific Reasoning, then one day, out of the blue, I felt him, heard him, at the pinnacle of my personal success Jesus called. Not a Preacher or a Deacon in sight. I can't say what happens to others or what will happen, just what happened to me. I accepted Jesus, still do, I also still question everything I see and think I know, I just have my special friend with me as I do it.
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  #210  
Old 12-06-2017, 08:03 PM
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Does the earth have freewill? Did God make it pure and then it decided to create interior hot gases that cause earthquakes? Maybe the earth decides which of it's rivers will make canyons or where it's rains will fall or not fall.
Does the earth have that much power or is it guided my God? Why would God make a planet that would create famine and paradise? Maybe hurricanes aren't random after all. It could be the earth using it's free will.
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  #211  
Old 12-06-2017, 08:20 PM
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OK, ya'll missed this;

"A man reaps what he sows."

"The rain falls on the just and unjust."
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  #212  
Old 12-07-2017, 07:10 AM
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One may ask for justice, even find oneself demanding it as though it were a right.

But mercy, well, it can only be asked for...

ask, seek, knock...
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  #213  
Old 12-07-2017, 09:20 AM
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I can blame meddlesome teachers, thankfully you were spared, yet the evidence is observable.
I know what transgressions are made by Christians. Just recently a preacher told me I was lost because I don't attend church. This was after his brothers and my good friends funeral. I asked him if he ever prayed with his Brother, you know beyond saying the blessing, he said he had not. I then told him that I did pray with his brother, my friend often, his brother and my friend took great comfort from those occasions and told me so. I informed the Preacherman that I was entirely comfortable in my assessment of my salvation. We Christians are way too often our own worst enemy.
I was raised in the Baptist Church, turned away from it and faith completely. I embraced Science and Scientific Reasoning, then one day, out of the blue, I felt him, heard him, at the pinnacle of my personal success Jesus called. Not a Preacher or a Deacon in sight. I can't say what happens to others or what will happen, just what happened to me. I accepted Jesus, still do, I also still question everything I see and think I know, I just have my special friend with me as I do it.
Would you mind sharing what this was like, maybe in a PM if it's very personal? I find these stories the most interesting part of conversion.
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  #214  
Old 12-07-2017, 11:35 AM
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Would you mind sharing what this was like, maybe in a PM if it's very personal? I find these stories the most interesting part of conversion.
Better in person. I will probably make a trip to Highland Hardware, after Christmas, I believe you had mentioned a good burger joint close by? A couple of new spokeshaves a good burger and fine fellowship always makes for a good day.
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  #215  
Old 12-07-2017, 11:40 AM
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So not all humans are the children of god.
Interesting

Who created humans again? I want to make sure that I am not missing something.
Spotlite?
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  #216  
Old 12-07-2017, 12:40 PM
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Some believe in two different creation accounts. Genesis one is the creation of all man and Genesis 2 is the creation of the Jews.
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  #217  
Old 12-07-2017, 04:01 PM
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Better in person. I will probably make a trip to Highland Hardware, after Christmas, I believe you had mentioned a good burger joint close by? A couple of new spokeshaves a good burger and fine fellowship always makes for a good day.
You just let me know when. I'll be glad to meet you.
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  #218  
Old 12-07-2017, 08:42 PM
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Atlas you have an issue with this?
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  #219  
Old 12-07-2017, 09:19 PM
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Takes a lot to move me but I think that ^ is one of the most beautiful things Ive ever seen.
If there is such a thing as angels, surely that nurse must be one.
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  #220  
Old 12-07-2017, 09:26 PM
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Atlas you have an issue with this?

Ritchie,
If you were dying I would absolutely lie to you and tell you you were going to Heaven. I would do that for anyone if I felt that's what they wanted to hear. Would you do the same for me and assure me that when I die that it will be the end of me because that's what I want to hear?
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  #221  
Old 12-07-2017, 09:27 PM
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Takes a lot to move me but I think that ^ is one of the most beautiful things Ive ever seen.
If there is such a thing as angels, surely that nurse must be one.
Amen brother Walt now your speaking my language.
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  #222  
Old 12-07-2017, 10:00 PM
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Ritchie,
If you were dying I would absolutely lie to you and tell you you were going to Heaven. I would do that for anyone if I felt that's what they wanted to hear. Would you do the same for me and assure me that when I die that it will be the end of me because that's what I want to hear?
No. I wouldn't.
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  #223  
Old 12-07-2017, 10:02 PM
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No. I wouldn't.
Interesting.....

Atlas, your point has been made.
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  #224  
Old 12-07-2017, 10:16 PM
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Interesting.....

Atlas, your point has been made.
I wouldn't lie. You would. You don't believe. I do so I don't get your point? Perhaps it is to Irritate me as to your attitude but you will not succeed. What ever makes your boat float bro. Just learned a lot about you.
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  #225  
Old 12-07-2017, 10:37 PM
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Ritchie,
If you were dying I would absolutely lie to you and tell you you were going to Heaven. I would do that for anyone if I felt that's what they wanted to hear. Would you do the same for me and assure me that when I die that it will be the end of me because that's what I want to hear?
You think that is what the nurse is doing?
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