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  #101  
Old 10-07-2015, 03:26 PM
Davem Davem is offline
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Well.....sounds like NONE of you guys patterned your buckshot. I did a very minor amount a couple of years back but now I'm going to try about 6 different ammo (3", 2 3/4" and Rem, Win, Fed in 3 different chokes. As I collect everything I realize I never did this cause it is going to be a lot of work.
Sometimes we have to do a lot just to establish what we suspected is actually true- I might not learn anything.
I've read about a few rare shotguns that put a whole load into a hand sized pattern at 25 or 30 yards. My tests were much worse- maybe 4 pellets into a paper plate at 25 yards.
Some folks aim at the lower neck/shoulder and others at the lungs.
By sharing experiences I think we could learn a lot.
My gut feeling is 15-25 yards is best. 30-35 yards is getting sort of far, if the cover is open enough for 50 yard shots use a rifle or slugs.
It would be most helpful for both good and bad experience to be given. That would help establish limits on buckshot use.
Where I live I'd say 80% of the guys with deer dogs use shotguns and the rest some sort of rifle. Semi-autos in .243, maybe lever actions, etc.
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  #102  
Old 01-29-2016, 12:15 AM
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After revisiting this thread I decided to see what the ole benelli aka Strictly Business was doing as far as pattern, out of shear curiosity. Set up a sheet of cut plywood roughly 4x4 or 4x5 @ 60 yards. Using my dog hunting setup I poured 11 out of 12 pellets into what would have been a dead deer. Backed off to 80 yards and poured 9 out of 12 pellets into what would have been another dead deer. No all the pellets weren't in the size of a pie plate and that still wont stop me from shooting at deer at those distances. I shot 5 times this year behind dogs and there were 5 deer laying dead in there tracks. 2 of the 5 were in the 60 yard range, the other 3 were closer. We have 3 or 4 fellas in our club that if they pull the trigger you can go ahead and ease that way and start loading dogs because the race is over. Yall boys keep trying to figure out a pattern that pleases you and we will keep loading em up on the tailgate. My recommendation to yall is pick you up a buck kicker choke,some Winchester double X high velocity 00, stop worrying about those patterns and get to hunting.
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  #103  
Old 02-03-2016, 12:02 AM
.60 caliber buckshot .60 caliber buckshot is offline
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Mike your advice contains many incongruities.

Saying that patterning is a waste of time and then recommending an ammo brand and a $75 choke tube simply does not add up.

Particularly in view of the choke tube manufacturer's patterning tips and recommendation to:

"Know the capabilities of your gun before going afield"

http://www.kicks-ind.com/category/buckkicker.html




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Originally Posted by mikelowery9 View Post
...My personal opinion is patterning a shotgun is a waste of time...
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Originally Posted by mikelowery9 View Post
...My recommendation to yall is pick you up a buck kicker choke,some Winchester double X high velocity 00, stop worrying about those patterns and get to hunting....
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  #104  
Old 02-03-2016, 02:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .60 caliber buckshot View Post
Mike your advice contains many incongruities.

Saying that patterning is a waste of time and then recommending an ammo brand and a $75 choke tube simply does not add up.

Particularly in view of the choke tube manufacturer's patterning tips and recommendation to:

"Know the capabilities of your gun before going afield"

http://www.kicks-ind.com/category/buckkicker.html

Its your opinion and your entitled to it. You can pattern yours until your blue in the shoulder, doesn't bother me a bit. Hate to tell you bud but the ammo brand was recommended because it has been proven to stop deer better than any other round we have run through our guns, not because "it improves pattern". Penetration is the word you should research for this. The choke was recommended for extended range not because of a statement about knowing your guns capabilities before going afield. I made the purchase because the people that were using it were consistently stacking deer up on the tailgates. I say all that to say this, no matter if you pattern your gun or not if you consistently kill deer with one shot then your doing it right. My case I don't pattern mine and I get the job done. So to me patterning my gun is a WASTE OF TIME. To those of you that have to pattern yours to get it done then by all means do what you have to do.
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  #105  
Old 11-02-2017, 07:05 PM
.60 caliber buckshot .60 caliber buckshot is offline
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Another reason for pre-season pattern testing:

Shotshell manufacturers often make running changes in their buckshot lines. Such changes are seldom announced, so regardless of your past experiences, not checking the patterns with a new lot of buckshot ammunition may lead to lost or wounded game.

Last edited by .60 caliber buckshot; 11-02-2017 at 09:28 PM.
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  #106  
Old 11-03-2017, 12:17 PM
Davem Davem is offline
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A friend of mine recently shot a deer with a rifle, the proven deer round blew away half the lungs and yet that deer still ran over 100 yards. Now when such events occur everyone marvels at what a deer can do, dead on its feet but it still runs.
If you shot and hit the same deer a couple of times with buckshot and it did the same damage and the deer ran the same distance, "buckshot is to blame- no good". So, off hand, buckshot gets a bad rap.
That said, it seems to me buckshot is a strange critter. There have been reports of a human killed at 100 yards by a single pellet and yet according to ballistics, that pellet should have had virtually no energy. The old time gun writer Elmer Keith claimed round balls acted differently and were more destructive than a bullet and maybe that explains some of this.
I think a lot of dog hunters who never pattern their shotguns line up along a dirt road, looking into the woods and the dogs push a deer by at 20-30 yards and the hunter takes 2 or 3 shots and downs the deer and that's that. Factory loads seem to be okay. AND for that kind of hunting they are okay.
I think the patterning comes into play by trying to extend the range, if you start shooting at 40-60 yards then the pattern becomes very important. Obviously a single pellet hitting the brain, etc will kill but as a general rule, the more pellets that hit- the better.
Birdshot acts like water out of a garden hose, constrict the nozzle and the water stream tightens. Buckshot is so large that different rules apply. The buckshot is stacked and if the choke is too small or too large the stacks upset and the pattern goes to blazes. I don't think you can simply buy a tight choke and assume all is well. Getting back to Elmer Keith, he did some testing of the old trench guns (win model 97) that really had no chokes but all the pellets from one particular gun hit in a hand sized group at 40 yards. You just never know- the only way is to pattern- if you start on the long distance stuff.
I agree, when companies start changing everything- drives me crazy, especially if you went through a lot of work testing ammo- you can spend a small fortune.
I've done a lot of questioning on this issue. From everyone I've spoken to, if seems like 3 or more pellets in the lung area will usually do the job and that most ranges are 35 yards or less. I've therefore tested my loads along those lines, a pellet spread that ought to put at least 3 pellets in a rather small area. Actually, I try to get 5 hits into a paper plate.
I sure would like to hear from others with their experience on how many hits usually take a deer and at what range, etc.
All information is helpful- such as if plated shot really makes a difference in killing abilty, hevi-shot, etc.
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  #107  
Old 11-03-2017, 11:45 PM
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Was Elmer Keith the fellow who told a story about somebody defending their home with a 12-gauge shotgun, loaded with buckshot, when they were menaced or attacked by outlaws on horseback in their front yard? The story, as I recall it, ended with the home defender firing THROUGH the wooden door and killing both the outlaw AND his horse!
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  #108  
Old 11-04-2017, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GunnSmokeer View Post
for what it's worth, I shot a skinny little plastic portable radio with a 3" magnum shell, 20 gauge, #2 buckshot the other day.
From about 25 feet.

My pattern was about 8" wide, which was much wider than I expected at only about 8 yards, since I was used a modified-choke barrel.

And NONE of those .27 caliber pellets fully penetrated the radio and exited. They messed it up something awful, but not a single soft lead pellet could make it through two layers of plastic and one printed circuit board and some wires and diodes and capacitors.

This was a small AM/ FM only radio, about 6" tall, 7" wide, and only 2" thick.

I was not impressed. For self-defense, penetration like that seems marginal. For hunting big game, it seems inadequate. It would be like shooting a deer (or hog) 10 times with a .22 revolver loaded with .22 shorts.
The radio did not have enough weight. Screw it down to a 2ft long 2x10 and shoot it again. I believe that you will get all the penetration you could ask for.
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  #109  
Old 11-04-2017, 02:56 PM
Davem Davem is offline
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I didn't read about that, I think I recall reading he shot a coyote out of his house with buckshot. He didn't have a high opinion of buckshot but he was in an open area with long range shooting the rule.
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  #110  
Old 11-06-2017, 02:28 PM
ishootlittlebucks ishootlittlebucks is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davem View Post
A friend of mine recently shot a deer with a rifle, the proven deer round blew away half the lungs and yet that deer still ran over 100 yards. Now when such events occur everyone marvels at what a deer can do, dead on its feet but it still runs.
If you shot and hit the same deer a couple of times with buckshot and it did the same damage and the deer ran the same distance, "buckshot is to blame- no good". So, off hand, buckshot gets a bad rap.
That said, it seems to me buckshot is a strange critter. There have been reports of a human killed at 100 yards by a single pellet and yet according to ballistics, that pellet should have had virtually no energy. The old time gun writer Elmer Keith claimed round balls acted differently and were more destructive than a bullet and maybe that explains some of this.
I think a lot of dog hunters who never pattern their shotguns line up along a dirt road, looking into the woods and the dogs push a deer by at 20-30 yards and the hunter takes 2 or 3 shots and downs the deer and that's that. Factory loads seem to be okay. AND for that kind of hunting they are okay.
I think the patterning comes into play by trying to extend the range, if you start shooting at 40-60 yards then the pattern becomes very important. Obviously a single pellet hitting the brain, etc will kill but as a general rule, the more pellets that hit- the better.
Birdshot acts like water out of a garden hose, constrict the nozzle and the water stream tightens. Buckshot is so large that different rules apply. The buckshot is stacked and if the choke is too small or too large the stacks upset and the pattern goes to blazes. I don't think you can simply buy a tight choke and assume all is well. Getting back to Elmer Keith, he did some testing of the old trench guns (win model 97) that really had no chokes but all the pellets from one particular gun hit in a hand sized group at 40 yards. You just never know- the only way is to pattern- if you start on the long distance stuff.
I agree, when companies start changing everything- drives me crazy, especially if you went through a lot of work testing ammo- you can spend a small fortune.
I've done a lot of questioning on this issue. From everyone I've spoken to, if seems like 3 or more pellets in the lung area will usually do the job and that most ranges are 35 yards or less. I've therefore tested my loads along those lines, a pellet spread that ought to put at least 3 pellets in a rather small area. Actually, I try to get 5 hits into a paper plate.
I sure would like to hear from others with their experience on how many hits usually take a deer and at what range, etc.
All information is helpful- such as if plated shot really makes a difference in killing abilty, hevi-shot, etc.
I would try to get as many as I could in that paper plate. IMO you want room for error. I spent a lot of time and $ patterning my shotgun. It will put most, if not all, of the 18 00 pellets in that plate at 40 yards. I've shot deer that the pattern on there side looked just like the pattern on the paper. I've also shot deer at 40 yards or so that were only hit with just a few pellets. I have no idea how that happens with a good patterning shotgun, but it does. I want as many in that plate as I can get.
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  #111  
Old 11-06-2017, 06:39 PM
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If yall really want the best bang for your buck, go over to "Old Gobbler " turkey hunting forum. Read the posts on how they super polish their barrels, even new ones, and greatly increasing their patterns and performance. Those boys are dead serious about patterns and are improving whatever they are shooting by something like 27%. Its a DIY job also.
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  #112  
Old 11-07-2017, 07:58 AM
ishootlittlebucks ishootlittlebucks is offline
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I have thought about trying that. My shotgun has a chrome lined barrel. I'm not sure it would do me any good though.
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  #113  
Old 11-07-2017, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by ishootlittlebucks View Post
I have thought about trying that. My shotgun has a chrome lined barrel. I'm not sure it would do me any good though.
It would be worth your read I believe. They do those barrels also with great results. Can't hurt any.
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  #114  
Old 11-07-2017, 11:50 AM
Davem Davem is offline
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If you don't have chrome lined barrels I think you can re-cut the forcing cone and that improves patterns in some instances.
I agree with the idea more pellets are better. In a dog hunting situation the deer is often moving and if it sees you, then it is running and you have to do some fast shooting. I don't know of any set up or facility where you can safely practice shooting a rifle at a moving target so that's why I think the shotgun has a role to play. If you are a pretty good wing shooter then the shotgun is comfortable. Still, any particular round might just throw an odd pattern so taking multiple shots until the deer is down seems like the go to strategy.
I've spoken to a lot of fellow hunters and as I said most feel 3 pellets through the lungs will work, 5 is better. With that in mind I try to find a load that puts 5 pellets in a hand sized (pie plate) area. If that occurs at 35 yards- then that is my "practical" range.
Meaning some wiggle room will likely occur in the field.
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  #115  
Old 11-07-2017, 09:39 PM
.60 caliber buckshot .60 caliber buckshot is offline
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Default Generic Buckshot???

Buckshot loads cannot be treated like a generic commodity. Saying my gun likes 00B or open chokes are best for buckshot simply lumps all brands/types/innovative loads together and that simply is no longer a valid approach - if it ever was.

And as already mentioned, factory buckshot loads often have running production changes that may or may not be reflected in the packaging or advertising. These changes may result in pattern changes - for better or worse!

Conventional buckshot ammo falls into several distinct categories:

- Bare pellet loads.
- Bare pellets with buffer.
- Shot cup and buffer.
- Shot cup with buffer and 2x2 stack or offset spiral stack
- Flite Control type - with or without buffer
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