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  #76  
Old 11-10-2017, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by NE GA Pappy View Post
I quit having any discussions for that reason.

I don't understand how something can be everlasting if there is an end to it.
Yeah. Pretty much any intelligent or interesting post up there is soon taken over by Hobbs and/or Art and either turned into whatever they choose or totally derailed. Lot of good posters just quit and who can blame them. Personally I wish they were banned. They add nothing and only disrupt.
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  #77  
Old 11-12-2017, 10:26 AM
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I quit having any discussions for that reason.

I don't understand how something can be everlasting if there is an end to it.
You don't have to respond. You can even block me if you so choose. All I do is answer questions like this one you just posed.

Christians have been granted everlasting life... Yet we will all die.
Just as our Spiritual life is everlasting so was the covenant IE marriage contract with the old Jerusalem.
Jerusalem was God's bride, yet she became the Harlot and was put to death, rose again Spiritually as the New Jerusalem and remmaried in the New Covenant.
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  #78  
Old 11-12-2017, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by hobbs27 View Post
You don't have to respond. You can even block me if you so choose. All I do is answer questions like this one you just posed.

Christians have been granted everlasting life... Yet we will all die.
Just as our Spiritual life is everlasting so was the covenant IE marriage contract with the old Jerusalem.
Jerusalem was God's bride, yet she became the Harlot and was put to death, rose again Spiritually as the New Jerusalem and remmaried in the New Covenant.
The only problem is, somebody forgot to tell Jerusalem / Israel.

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  #79  
Old 11-12-2017, 12:02 PM
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Israel today is a political non secular country formed after ww2. When for the first time since the first century Judaism became a majority of the population which was caused by Zionism.
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  #80  
Old 11-12-2017, 02:32 PM
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You don't have to respond. You can even block me if you so choose. All I do is answer questions like this one you just posed.

Christians have been granted everlasting life... Yet we will all die.
Just as our Spiritual life is everlasting so was the covenant IE marriage contract with the old Jerusalem.
Jerusalem was God's bride, yet she became the Harlot and was put to death, rose again Spiritually as the New Jerusalem and remmaried in the New Covenant.
Do you see it as yet another resurrection? Jesus was resurrected and we as individuals will be or were.
So you see even one more type, physical Israel being resurrected as spiritual Israel. This spiritual Israel is what the Gentiles were grafted into?
I've been reading about this re-birth in Ezekiel 36-37. The story of the dry bones. Sounds to me like it is about the resurrection/rebirth you addressed. Eventually the bones took on flesh but lacked one thing. Breath or spirituality. Then Ezekiel prophesied and breath came to them and they lived. God said, “I will put My Spirit in you, and you shall live”
It's the same prophesy in Jeremiah 31.

I would agree that it is a rebirth of Israel. The dry bones account gives this rebirth to the physical. First they are dead. Then they take on flesh but have no breath. Eventually they are given life through breath.
I don't read it as physical becoming spiritual but physical gaining spirituality through the breath of God. Otherwise in the dry bones account, they wouldn't have taken on new flesh.

God said these bones represent the people of Israel. The people of Israel thought they were dried up, completely cut off. Then God said I will bring you back to the land of Israel. I will settle you in your own land.
Then God tells Ezekiel to take two sticks, to write Ephraim on one and Judah on the other, and to join the sticks together. Joining the two sticks visually illustrates all Israel being regathered and reunited as one people.
God said I will take the Israelites out of the nations where they have gone. I will gather them from all around and bring them back into their own land.
Then Israel will be cleansed from all her defilement of sin, idolatry, and detestable things and they will walk in My ordinances and keep My statutes and observe them.
They will live in the land I gave my servant Jacob, the land where their ancestors lived. They and their children and their grandchildren after them will live there forever, generation after generation.

God said I will make a covenant of peace with them; it will be an everlasting covenant. I will establish them and increase their numbers, and I will put my sanctuary among them forever.

Last edited by Artfuldodger; 11-12-2017 at 08:44 PM.
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  #81  
Old 11-12-2017, 03:06 PM
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I'm just trying to follow God's plan from it's inception as it was revealed to me through God's Word. First God created man and man sinned. Soon, through the promises given to Abraham, we learn of a promised Seed and seeds. The seeds that are descendants through Abraham and Isaac came to be known as Jews and/or Israel. These were genealogical descendants of which the Seed(Jesus) came. Jesus was a Jew.

Promises were made to physical Israel. Later we learn that not all which is Israel is Israel and Gentiles are grafted into the Commonwealth of Israel. Romans 11 says we have people God loves because he chose their ancestors Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. That they are loved on account of the patriarchs. Then Paul say's "for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable." He says this right after he explains genealogical descendants.

I guess this is where I get lost as some say that since God made promises to the Jews that he must keep that either A) they were never promised to physical Israel or B) they were initially promised to physical Israel but as a way around God not fulfilling his promises he changed it to the spiritual Israel/Church. That God/Jesus divorced Israel and married the Church.

I do know that a lot of folk believe it is A or B above. That still presents a problem when reading Romans 11 which states that God chose a remnant out of physical Israel and hardened the rest of physical Israel until the full number of Gentiles comes in.

We've got this whole chapter devoted to this in-grafting of the Gentiles to provoke physical Israel. Natural branches broken off and unnatural branches grafted onto the nourishing root. Israel's rejection is the reconciliation of the world. It was the Gentiles way into the Commonwealth of Israel. So don't think highly of yourself, but fear what could happen. If you stop trusting, you also will be cut off. Do not be ignorant of this mystery less ye be conceited.
Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "The Deliverer will come from Zion, He will remove godlessness from Jacob.

God says "this is My covenant with them when I take away their sins.”
Right after this Paul explains election by geneology, the grafting to make physical Israel jealous, that God’s gifts and His call are irrevocable. That we(gentiles) who were formerly disobedient could receive mercy through the Jews disobedience. So now Israel can be shown the same mercy shown to us.(gentiles)

Both Jews and Gentiles had to be disobedient so that God could have mercy on both groups. Don't even ask me why it went down like this. Paul knew we wouldn't understand when he said;

How unsearchable His judgments, and untraceable His ways!

Last edited by Artfuldodger; 11-12-2017 at 08:36 PM.
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  #82  
Old 11-12-2017, 08:39 PM
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Hebrews 8:13 When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.

When the author of Hebrews wrote. The old covenant made with Israel had been made obsolete and was about to disappear. The way I see it, there cannot be two covenants today, for the Old has disappeared.
There is no longer Jew nor Greek... There is only one way to the Father, and that is through the Son.
Dispensationalist that believe Jew's are protected or saved through another way are wrong, they should not praise the Jew, but witness Jesus to them.
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  #83  
Old 11-12-2017, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by hobbs27 View Post
Hebrews 8:13 When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.

When the author of Hebrews wrote. The old covenant made with Israel had been made obsolete and was about to disappear. The way I see it, there cannot be two covenants today, for the Old has disappeared.
There is no longer Jew nor Greek... There is only one way to the Father, and that is through the Son.
Dispensationalist that believe Jew's are protected or saved through another way are wrong, they should not praise the Jew, but witness Jesus to them.
I think maybe your problem is you see rebirth as always going from physical to spiritual. There are many biblical accounts of rebirths concerning Jesus, individuals, and nations. Rebirths that remained physical with new hearts and new spirits.

Next we have covenants and testaments. What is the covenant mentioned in Ezekiel 36:24-28?

"'For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land. I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. Then you will live in the land I gave your ancestors; you will be my people, and I will be your God.

What covenant is this in Ezekiel 37:12-28
My people, I am going to open your graves and bring you up from them; I will bring you back to the land of Israel.
I will put My Spirit within you and you will come to life, and I will place you on your own land. I will take the Israelites out of the nations where they have gone. I will gather them from all around and bring them back into their own land. and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king will be king for all of them; They will never again pollute themselves with their idols and vile images and rebellion, for I will save them from their sinful backsliding. I will cleanse them. Then they will truly be my people, and I will be their God. They will walk in My ordinances and keep My statutes and observe them.
They will live in the land I gave my servant Jacob, the land where their ancestors lived.
I will make a covenant of peace with them; it will be an everlasting covenant with them. And I will place them and multiply them, and will set My sanctuary in their midst forever.
The Lord said, “I will be their God, and they shall be My people”
Then the nations will know that I the LORD make Israel holy, when my sanctuary is among them forever.'"
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  #84  
Old 11-12-2017, 10:55 PM
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Hobbs,
In light of the accusation by the OP that we, using our power & influence, take over any intelligent or interesting post for our own agenda and/or for the sole purpose to derail, and force individuals to respond to our nonsense, what do you reckon the OP was trolling for with this thread?

I mean he presented this thread in the "Other Faiths" forum. I wonder what direction he thought a thread on the Abrahamic Covenant would take even without a derailment by me or a change of purpose by you?
I hadn't even responded before Centerpin Fan observed that it was a train wreck. Heck I possess the same belief as the OP in regards to physical Israel and still get lambasted by him.

Anyway, I've learned a bit from this thread so I have to give thanks to the OP for presenting it for discussion. The Lord does work in mysterious ways. The teacher doesn't always have to be who we think it should be.
I'm not sure exactly what he was fishing for but I took the bait and it was tasty. It was a nourishing root.
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  #85  
Old 11-13-2017, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Artfuldodger View Post
Hobbs,
In light of the accusation by the OP that we, using our power & influence, take over any intelligent or interesting post for our own agenda and/or for the sole purpose to derail, and force individuals to respond to our nonsense, what do you reckon the OP was trolling for with this thread?

I mean he presented this thread in the "Other Faiths" forum. I wonder what direction he thought a thread on the Abrahamic Covenant would take even without a derailment by me or a change of purpose by you?
I hadn't even responded before Centerpin Fan observed that it was a train wreck. Heck I possess the same belief as the OP in regards to physical Israel and still get lambasted by him.

Anyway, I've learned a bit from this thread so I have to give thanks to the OP for presenting it for discussion. The Lord does work in mysterious ways. The teacher doesn't always have to be who we think it should be.
I'm not sure exactly what he was fishing for but I took the bait and it was tasty. It was a nourishing root.

I don't speculate. It's the same treatment I would get from most organized denominations today. I've learned to not get caught up in it, so I pray for them and myself for knowledge and maturity.

You have asked too many questions in the last couple of posts for me to answer. I spend little time on here lately, so I'm just going to share this with you a friend of mine recently put together to show the importance of Re-
And how soteriology and eschatology are so linked together. If you investigate this, it will answer most of the questions you had.


To be REformed (Heb. 9:10), REstored (Acts 3:21), REconciled (Heb. 2:17), REgenerated (Mat. 19:28), REnewed (Titus 3:5), REwarded (Col. 3:24), REdeemed (Titus 2:14), and REsurrected (Luke 20:36 & Acts 24:15) are synonyms related to soteriology which was simultaneously accomplished with eschatology when the REstitution of all things was fulfilled at the REturn of Christ. All this is what we possess today in our state of sin REmitted!
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Last edited by hobbs27; 11-13-2017 at 03:40 PM.
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