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  #626  
Old 10-31-2017, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by hummerpoo View Post
Ambush, have you ever considered writing some apocalyptic fantasy?
The genre is a little passé, but I hear the pay is good;
and you already have the title —"Switches";
and the tag line—"your brain of choice".

Hey, maybe it will go Hollywood.
Then we can say, "We knew Ambush when ..."
I'm not fond of the genre. You should do it. I was having a conversation with my Mom and she was telling me that she believes that my Dad is in the Heaven that he imagined.

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Originally Posted by bullethead View Post
Already been done, read revelations.
Touche.
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Last edited by ambush80; 10-31-2017 at 08:52 PM.
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  #627  
Old 10-31-2017, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Israel View Post
Oh, OK, for me that makes it remarkably simple.

The substance of the man who testifies to it, and wrote it, as against the substance of the man who refutes it.

It simply comes down to the substance of each.
Actually no.
Pretty much the opposite.
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  #628  
Old 10-31-2017, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Israel View Post
Oh, OK, for me that makes it remarkably simple.

The substance of the man who testifies to it, and wrote it, as against the substance of the man who refutes it.

It simply comes down to the substance of each.
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Originally Posted by WaltL1 View Post
Actually no.
Pretty much the opposite.
What do you mean, Walt?
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  #629  
Old 10-31-2017, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hummerpoo View Post
Ambush, have you ever considered writing some apocalyptic fantasy?
The genre is a little passé, but I hear the pay is good;
and you already have the title —"Switches";
and the tag line—"your brain of choice".

Hey, maybe it will go Hollywood.
Then we can say, "We knew Ambush when ..."
Here's your sci-fi story:

Would it be good to be able to "throw the switches" in the mind of a captured jihadist? A sociopathic, cannibal, rapist, murderer? If we could, would it be good or bad to throw the switches in EVERYBODY's brains so that they believe that Jesus is Lord? Are they saved?

Things that make me go Hmmmmmm.....
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  #630  
Old 11-01-2017, 07:26 AM
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Pretty much, yes.
And of course we can get in the "what is knowing" debate.
But we as humans have developed certain systems that we rely on. The judicial system goes round and round and much of it starts with - "We don't know what happened but we can rule out these possibilities based on the evidence".
As we sit here, this -

Is a statement that is backed up by the facts/figures/scientific/historical evidence that is available to us.
You couldn't prove that statement wrong by a preponderance of the evidence without pulling out the "you just gotta believe" card.
But like I said - "as we sit here". We could sit somewhere else tomorrow. But until then....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Israel
Oh, OK, for me that makes it remarkably simple.
The substance of the man who testifies to it, and wrote it, as against the substance of the man who refutes it.

It simply comes down to the substance of each
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaltL1
Actually no.
Pretty much the opposite.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ambush80 View Post
What do you mean, Walt?
Its not the substance of the man who testifies to it or refutes it that matters.
Its the substance of what is being testified to or refuted that matters.
Note that my post was about -
Quote:
certain systems
Quote:
possibilities based on the evidence".
Quote:
facts/figures/scientific/historical evidence that is available to us.
Quote:
preponderance of the evidence
Evidence is what evidence is regardless of the substance of the men who testify to it or refute it.
You may view the evidence through the substance of who you are but the evidence either will or will not support your view regardless.
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  #631  
Old 11-01-2017, 07:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ambush80 View Post
Here's your sci-fi story:

Would it be good to be able to "throw the switches" in the mind of a captured jihadist? A sociopathic, cannibal, rapist, murderer? If we could, would it be good or bad to throw the switches in EVERYBODY's brains so that they believe that Jesus is Lord? Are they saved?

Things that make me go Hmmmmmm.....
Would it be good to throw any of the hypothesized switchs until every consequence was known with certainty?
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  #632  
Old 11-01-2017, 07:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ambush80 View Post
Here's your sci-fi story:

Would it be good to be able to "throw the switches" in the mind of a captured jihadist? A sociopathic, cannibal, rapist, murderer? If we could, would it be good or bad to throw the switches in EVERYBODY's brains so that they believe that Jesus is Lord? Are they saved?

Things that make me go Hmmmmmm.....
All depends on which one of our Christian friends you ask
The Bible says......
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  #633  
Old 11-01-2017, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by WaltL1 View Post
Its not the substance of the man who testifies to it or refutes it that matters.
Its the substance of what is being testified to or refuted that matters.
Note that my post was about -




Evidence is what evidence is regardless of the substance of the men who testify to it or refute it.
You may view the evidence through the substance of who you are but the evidence either will or will not support your view regardless.
Precisely.

When it is Zebras the hoof beats heard are those of Zebras.
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  #634  
Old 11-01-2017, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ambush80 View Post
Here's your sci-fi story:

Would it be good to be able to "throw the switches" in the mind of a captured jihadist? A sociopathic, cannibal, rapist, murderer? If we could, would it be good or bad to throw the switches in EVERYBODY's brains so that they believe that Jesus is Lord? Are they saved?

Things that make me go Hmmmmmm.....
Cannot hi lite on this computer the words believe, saved, and "me".
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  #635  
Old 11-01-2017, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Israel View Post
Precisely.

When it is Zebras the hoof beats heard are those of Zebras.
Precisely.
Precisely the opposite of this -
Quote:
The substance of the man who testifies to it, and wrote it, as against the substance of the man who refutes it
Quote:
When it is Zebras the hoof beats heard are those of Zebras.
Yes if the hoof beats that were heard were in fact zebras then the hoof beats that were heard were in fact zebras.
But before you know if they were in fact zebras you could eliminate that they were chickens. So -
Quote:
"We don't know what happened but we can rule out these possibilities based on the evidence".
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  #636  
Old 11-01-2017, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WaltL1 View Post
Its not the substance of the man who testifies to it or refutes it that matters.
Its the substance of what is being testified to or refuted that matters.
Note that my post was about -




Evidence is what evidence is regardless of the substance of the men who testify to it or refute it.
You may view the evidence through the substance of who you are but the evidence either will or will not support your view regardless.

Ah, yes. I understand.
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  #637  
Old 11-01-2017, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by hummerpoo View Post
Would it be good to throw any of the hypothesized switchs until every consequence was known with certainty?
That's kind of what I was assuming. I was assuming that ALL the switches in the brain had been mapped out. But maybe that's the plot wrinkle in the story.....
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  #638  
Old 11-01-2017, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by WaltL1 View Post
All depends on which one of our Christian friends you ask
The Bible says......
As far as I can tell, the only thing that gets one saved is believing that Jesus is Lord. One of these days we will be able to make people truly believe that by throwing a "switch".
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  #639  
Old 11-01-2017, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Israel View Post
Cannot hi lite on this computer the words believe, saved, and "me".
What would you be trying to express by highlighting those words?
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  #640  
Old 11-01-2017, 10:24 AM
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But the words came through man in both cases...the hoof beats.

And there's reason in each word.
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  #641  
Old 11-01-2017, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by ambush80 View Post
What would you be trying to express by highlighting those words?
That their use is of a reason (even if I don't know it)
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  #642  
Old 11-01-2017, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by ambush80 View Post
That's kind of what I was assuming. I was assuming that ALL the switches in the brain had been mapped out. But maybe that's the plot wrinkle in the story.....
It's not my genre either, but the potential sequels are endless.
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  #643  
Old 11-01-2017, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by hummerpoo View Post
It's not my genre either, but the potential sequels are endless.

I think we're on to something.
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  #644  
Old 11-01-2017, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Israel View Post
But the words came through man in both cases...the hoof beats.

And there's reason in each word.
And the evidence either will or will not bear out if one or both of the men infused "themselves" into it.
Our discussion is diametrically opposed here Israel.
I am removing man and all that is "him" from the equation and your point is based entirely on putting him into the equation so that its "him" that is now the controlling factor instead of the evidence.
Which is why you have to remove him from the equation...
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  #645  
Old 11-01-2017, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by ambush80 View Post
As far as I can tell, the only thing that gets one saved is believing that Jesus is Lord. One of these days we will be able to make people truly believe that by throwing a "switch".
Weren't you listening to Welder?
Just believing does not = YAHTZEE!!
Just believing without the magic ticket gets you a spot near the burn barrel with us.
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  #646  
Old 11-01-2017, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by WaltL1 View Post
Weren't you listening to Welder?
Just believing does not = YAHTZEE!!
Just believing without the magic ticket gets you a spot near the burn barrel with us.
Well, that's just my own understanding of the precept. I don't have no super duper discernment abilities like he's got.
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  #647  
Old 11-01-2017, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by WaltL1 View Post
And the evidence either will or will not bear out if one or both of the men infused "themselves" into it.
Our discussion is diametrically opposed here Israel.
I am removing man and all that is "him" from the equation and your point is based entirely on putting him into the equation so that its "him" that is now the controlling factor instead of the evidence.
Which is why you have to remove him from the equation...
Yes.
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