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Old 07-16-2005, 01:07 PM
Vernon Holt Vernon Holt is offline
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Default Wolves in North Georgia

Have recently been reading a history book of Gilmer County. The book contains a reference to the fact that Gilmer, Fannin, and Union County at one time had a "Wolf Tax". These funds enabled a bounty to be paid for every wolf scalp. The scalp was required to contain both ears intact before they would pay.

This effort to eliminate the Wolf was brought about by his predation upon livestock, with emphasis on sheep. Early settlers in isolated areas of the mountaineous terrain were highly dependant upon their sheep. They were sheared annually and the wool was washed, carded, and spun into thread which was then woven on hand looms into cloth. Clothing for the entire family was sewn from the hand woven material.

When and if a surplus of sheep developed, the family would butcher one for the family table. With constant predation from wolves, families seldom ever ate mutton.

No mention was made as to whether the critters were Red Wolves or Timber Wolves. Could have been either or both.

There are in existence today many local names which relate back to pioneer times. Many of the names suggest the existence of Wolves in former times. Examples of these are: Wolf Pen Branch, Wolf Pen Gap, and Wolf Pen Mountain. Wolf Pens were built of notched logs with a trap door. They were covered with logs as well as floored with logs to prevent scatching out. They were baited with the remains of a deer or any fresh meat.

The Wolf was apparently eliminated from even the wilderness areas before 1900. The early Mountain Men were a determined people.

Vernon
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Old 07-16-2005, 01:49 PM
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That was a good read, thanks. I heard that the NPS tried to reintroduce the red wolf into the smokies but it didnt take.
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Old 07-16-2005, 01:53 PM
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That is very interesting. Thanks for the history lesson as always Mr. Vernon.
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Old 07-16-2005, 02:32 PM
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Always wondered where Wolf Pen Gap got its name from ( on Rich Mtn)

Thanke Vernon !
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Old 07-16-2005, 08:25 PM
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Yes the NPS reintroduced the red wolf to the smokies and it failed ie: they couldn't control their data , The Red wolf is thriving here although the gooberment doesn't want you to know that , Soooo Whats new ?????????
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Old 07-25-2005, 03:32 PM
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Default There is a pack of 6 Red Wolves in northern

Bartow County in the Pine Log WMA. I've seen them twice. They were red but their legs were too long to be a fox or a coyote.
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Old 07-25-2005, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by dbone
Yes the NPS reintroduced the red wolf to the smokies and it failed ie: they couldn't control their data , The Red wolf is thriving here although the gooberment doesn't want you to know that , Soooo Whats new ?????????
d,
Ever seen one? Ever heard one?
I wish we could just 'rent' them to get rid of the yotes and them send them packing. I suppose if I have to happen upon a critter in the woods at night and it's a wolf or a yote I get to choose from, I'll take the yote....
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Old 08-13-2005, 09:53 AM
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Red Wolves mate with Coyotes, I have read that, due to inter breeding, the DNA of Red Wolves and Coyotes are so similar that they cannot be told apart by the use of DNA samples. Timber Wolves may weed out a few Coyotes but not enough to make a difference.
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Old 08-13-2005, 08:55 PM
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I watched two wolves in Yellowstone park this summer. There were in the same view of a spotting scope a young man loaned to my family for a few minutes. They were at least a mile away laying on the side of a hill.

20,000 out of 3,000,000 visitors a year see a wolf in Yellowstone. When they stray off the park they don't last long if the ranchers see them.
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Old 08-13-2005, 11:44 PM
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I hunt just out of Butler Ga. reading on the history of this town,I found out that it use to be called Wolf pen. The rail ended there, and there was a turntable, just off of it was a Wolf pen. Almost changed our club name to Wolf pen after reading about it.
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Old 08-14-2005, 06:03 PM
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In "Travels Of William Bartram", Bartram describes wolves several times during his travels of the Southeast in the mid to late 1700's. On one trip from Savannah southward to Jacksonville then down the St Johns and over to the Tallahassee area and back , He comes up on the Alachua Savannah, known today as Paynes Prairie. ...

"We continued some miles crossing over, from promotory to promotory, the most enchanting green coves and vistas, scolloping and indenting the high coasts of the vast plain. Observing a company of wolves (lupus niger) under a few trees, about a quarter of a mile from shore, we rode towards them; they observing our approach, sat on their hinder parts until we came nearly within shot of them, when they trotted off towards the forests, but stopped again and looked at us, at about two hundred yards distance: we then whooped and made a feint to pursue them; when they seperated from each other, some stretching off into the plains, and others seeking covert in the groves on shore. When we got to the trees, we observed they had been feeding on the carcase of a horse. The wolves of Florida are larger than a dog, and are perfectly black, except the females, which have a white spot on there breast; but they are not so large as the wolves of Canada and Pennsylvania, which are of a yellowish brown color...

During another trip from Savannah this time taking a route very close to where I 16 is today over to Alabama and then down to Mobile, another mention is made just after crossing the Tallapoosa River in Alabama and turning south to Mobile..sounds very near the plains of Auburn..."early in the morning we sat off for Mobile: our progress for about eighteen miles was through a magnificent forest, just without or skirting on the Indian plantations, frequently having a view of their distant towns, over plains or old fields; and at evening we came to camp under shelter of a grove of venerable spreading oaks, on the verge of the great plains; their enormous limbs loaded with Tillandsia usneadscites, waving in the winds; these Oaks were some shelter to us from the violence of an extraordinary shower of rain, which suddenly came down in such floods as to inundate the earth, and kept us standing on our feet the whole night, for the surface of the ground was under water almost till morning. Early next morning, our guide having performed his duty, took leave,returning home, and we continued on our journey, entering the great plains. We had not proceeded far before our people roused a litter of young wolves, to which giving chase, we soon caught one of them, it being entangled in the high grass; one of our people caught it by the hind legs, and another beat out its brains with the but of his gun, -- barbarous sport!--This creature was about half the size of a small cur dog, and quite black..."



Tillandsia usneadscites has got to singularly be the most descriptive name given spanish moss I have ever seen...
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Old 08-16-2005, 02:29 PM
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i thought the red wolf caught on when reintroduced into the areas near cades cove, I knw they need something to keep the deer in check there cuz they have plenty
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Old 06-15-2008, 05:39 PM
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i saw a red wolf in franklin co. back in feb. of 08 .i know the diff. of afox and a coyota. this was ared wolf.
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Old 06-16-2008, 06:50 PM
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Default They'll be back

A wolf was shot in Massachusetts this year after killing livestock. They have been spotted repeatedly in the last few years in northern New Angland and northern New York. They are migrating southward from Canada along the Appallachians and will probably make it to Georgia in a couple decades.

Cougars will be here in a few decades, too. They have slowly moved east from the Rockies through the midwest and have been found in Illinois, Iowa and a few other places. There favorite meal is whitetail, so you know they will make it here eventually.
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Old 06-17-2008, 11:42 AM
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The Red Wolf project did not work due to the influx of coyotes that either killed the pups or interbred with the wolves. The project did work and is still thriving along the NC coast.

It could be a few of those wolves or "halfbreeds" made their way south into GA though.
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Old 06-17-2008, 01:58 PM
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Don't forget South Carolina. They have a breeding and release program there near the Francis Marion National Forest. It is just North of Charleston, SC at a place called the SeeWee visitor center. They breed some of the wolves there. You can go and see the wolves in thier breeding pens too. It is open to the public. Free too. They also have some nice nature trails and ponds open to the public. I use to go there to watch the alligators.

Click on this link and then click on the wolf pic :

http://www.fws.gov/seweecenter/
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Old 06-17-2008, 10:59 PM
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Cougars have been in Ga.since the mid 60s. Never seen a bear or wolf. There was a bear spotted near Thomson today. I heard the report on radio station.BB
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Old 06-29-2008, 01:15 PM
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I used to work for Marietta PD. We kept getting bear calls one night in the vicinity of Kennestone Hospital (really close to Kennesaw Mountain Park). At around 2300, I was shining my spotlight along the railroad tracks in between Kennestone and Hwy 41 and spotted a black bear standing at the edge of the brush, about 20 yds away. I flashed the light right across and past him. When the light passed him by, he spun and ran into the brush.

Absolutely no question it was a black bear. Some of the older guys around MPD said we get one in Marietta about every 6 years or so.
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Old 06-29-2008, 02:14 PM
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Dumb question, Is it possible for coyote's and wolves to cross breed? If so, what would that look like? and how would you know if you saw a mix?
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Old 06-29-2008, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuffdawg View Post
Dumb question, Is it possible for coyote's and wolves to cross breed? If so, what would that look like? and how would you know if you saw a mix?
Good question, I'm not sure about the answer but I can tell you yotes have cross bred with dogs in my clubs area and produced a critter we're calling coy-dogs, they're a good bit larger than yotes and not a bit afraid of people, I can't say they show aggression but they don't show any fear either, like most all critters they prefer no contact with people
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Old 06-29-2008, 03:01 PM
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I guess that would be interesting to find out, most of us know what yote x dogs look like, and wolf x dogs.......... would be curious to know what yote x wolf looked like.
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Old 09-15-2008, 01:14 PM
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There was a story about them on the discovery channel. As i remeber they were saying that the red wolve had some coyote genes in them. I do not know how but that is what the story said.
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Old 09-15-2008, 01:34 PM
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While reading on the internet about the Catahouls Leopard Dogs the article stated that the Catahoula is part American Red Wolf and part Spanish Mastiff; neither of which is in existence today.
Previously in this thread a few people stated that we have Red Wolves and that the government has tried introducing them and that they are thriving here.
So my question is which is true? Are they still in existence or not?
Having hunted for 24 years all over Georgia and never having seen a Red Wolf here makes me a little skiptical about their existence. Is anyone here an authority on the American Red Wolf and if so, can you clear this up for me?
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Old 09-15-2008, 06:41 PM
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Im assuming wolves will breed with coyotes. I owned a Tundra wolf for awhile. Some folks I know pulled him from a den in Alaska after mom was dispatched for coming too close to camp on several occasions. Anyway, I looked out my window many times to see him playing around with coyotes. Never actually saw the act, and it could be a coincidence, but I started having some large coyotes with white tails start to show up. I think I was able to kill them all. (not seen one in several years) I also killed a small black female that was carrying pups and when I got her home, my wolf smelled of her dropped his head and layed down as if all the life had left him. So I think wolves and coyotes would cross if the circumstances were right.
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Old 09-30-2008, 05:46 PM
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We owned a red wolf that was rescued from a breeding program in Tx. She was a sack of bones. 2 years later she was fantastic. We did not think she could still have pups....and my lab got to her before we understood. She was 15 when it happened. We put her down a 17.

cw
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Old 09-30-2008, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Kaminski View Post
While reading on the internet about the Catahouls Leopard Dogs the article stated that the Catahoula is part American Red Wolf and part Spanish Mastiff; neither of which is in existence today.
Previously in this thread a few people stated that we have Red Wolves and that the government has tried introducing them and that they are thriving here.
So my question is which is true? Are they still in existence or not?
Having hunted for 24 years all over Georgia and never having seen a Red Wolf here makes me a little skiptical about their existence. Is anyone here an authority on the American Red Wolf and if so, can you clear this up for me?


A red wolf looks so much like a coyote, it ain`t funny. At a glance, they could pass for each other.

Yes, they are still in existence, North Carolina, I believe, has some.
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Old 10-02-2008, 10:03 AM
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Yes, they exist and can be found in the wild. The only population in the wild is in Northeastern NC, in the Alligator River National Wildlife Refuge area.

Here is some info, and where you can observe them in their breeding pens just outside of Charleston, SC. I have worked for the Forest Service in this region, so I visited them every now and then.

http://www.fws.gov/seweecenter/redwolves.html
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Old 10-02-2008, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vernon Holt View Post
Have recently been reading a history book of Gilmer County. The book contains a reference to the fact that Gilmer, Fannin, and Union County at one time had a "Wolf Tax". These funds enabled a bounty to be paid for every wolf scalp. The scalp was required to contain both ears intact before they would pay.

This effort to eliminate the Wolf was brought about by his predation upon livestock, with emphasis on sheep. Early settlers in isolated areas of the mountaineous terrain were highly dependant upon their sheep. They were sheared annually and the wool was washed, carded, and spun into thread which was then woven on hand looms into cloth. Clothing for the entire family was sewn from the hand woven material.

When and if a surplus of sheep developed, the family would butcher one for the family table. With constant predation from wolves, families seldom ever ate mutton.

No mention was made as to whether the critters were Red Wolves or Timber Wolves. Could have been either or both.

There are in existence today many local names which relate back to pioneer times. Many of the names suggest the existence of Wolves in former times. Examples of these are: Wolf Pen Branch, Wolf Pen Gap, and Wolf Pen Mountain. Wolf Pens were built of notched logs with a trap door. They were covered with logs as well as floored with logs to prevent scatching out. They were baited with the remains of a deer or any fresh meat.

The Wolf was apparently eliminated from even the wilderness areas before 1900. The early Mountain Men were a determined people.

Vernon
Interesting, we have a "wolf creek" and a "wolf fork" here in Rabun county.
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Old 10-02-2008, 09:27 PM
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i have a picture of 2 red wolves my Grandpa killed back in the late 60s and early 70s in Newton County Texas (Louisiana border). Those were the last 2 known red wolves to ever be killed in that part of the country. I've seen the pictures and there is a major difference in a full grown red wolf and a coyote. The red wolves are 3 times bigger than any southeastern coyote
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Old 10-08-2008, 07:58 PM
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I've never seen a red wolf in person, but we ain't to awful far from NC. The alpha female of the local coyote pack weighs 60+ lbs and many of her pups have a reddish coat. It makes you wonder...
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Old 10-11-2008, 11:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublebarrel View Post
Cougars have been in Ga.since the mid 60s. Never seen a bear or wolf. There was a bear spotted near Thomson today. I heard the report on radio station.BB
Actually the native americans knew about cougars and even black panthers in GA. Seeing a black panther to them meant "death"

Theres a thread here about panthers/cougars in Georgia. Look at it and there are naysayers there saying some surprising stuff against a possibility of cougars in GA

The bear spotted in Thomson was not far from my house. DNR said it was impossible to have a bear here, that it must have been a big dog. A dog that looks like a bear? Thats a first for me....
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Old 05-23-2009, 11:55 PM
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A red wolf looks so much like a coyote, it ain`t funny. At a glance, they could pass for each other.

Yes, they are still in existence, North Carolina, I believe, has some.
Chehaw Park (outside of Albany) has a pair of red wolves for breeding purposes and I have spent a good bit of time looking at them. For the life of me I can't tell the difference between them and some of the big coyotes I have either trapped or shot over the years in sowega. I have killed many a coyote out west too, and the ones I have killed in Ga. as a whole look a heck of alot more like those two red wolves at chehaw than any of the coyotes I have killed out west. I think that the coyotes we have here either have a heck of alot of red wolf blood in them (interbreeding with coyotes is what is causing them to go extinct more than anything else) or they are red wolves. It is just that the tree huggers have too much invested in wolves being endangered, if folks thought they were common nobody would donate any money. It really doesn't matter too much to me, from what I have read lately, the red wolf is a recent genetic creation and now they are thinking that they are basically a grey wolf/coyote hybrid. Who knows. There really isn't any pure red wolf genes to compare the sowega brush wolves to.
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Old 05-23-2009, 11:58 PM
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Chehaw Park (outside of Albany) has a pair of red wolves for breeding purposes and I have spent a good bit of time looking at them. For the life of me I can't tell the difference between them and some of the big coyotes I have either trapped or shot over the years in sowega. I have killed many a coyote out west too, and the ones I have killed in Ga. as a whole look a heck of alot more like those two red wolves at chehaw than any of the coyotes I have killed out west. I think that the coyotes we have here either have a heck of alot of red wolf blood in them (interbreeding with coyotes is what is causing them to go extinct more than anything else) or they are red wolves. It is just that the tree huggers have too much invested in wolves being endangered, if folks thought they were common nobody would donate any money. It really doesn't matter too much to me, from what I have read lately, the red wolf is a recent genetic creation and now they are thinking that they are basically a grey wolf/coyote hybrid. Who knows. There really isn't any pure red wolf genes to compare the sowega brush wolves to.


Yea, I`ve spent some time lookin` at them too. Ben and me have had some conversation about em as wel.

Sowega brush wolves...I like that, catchy name.
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Old 05-23-2009, 11:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Southernhoundhunter View Post
i have a picture of 2 red wolves my Grandpa killed back in the late 60s and early 70s in Newton County Texas (Louisiana border). Those were the last 2 known red wolves to ever be killed in that part of the country. I've seen the pictures and there is a major difference in a full grown red wolf and a coyote. The red wolves are 3 times bigger than any southeastern coyote
I have killed many a sowega coyote that was between 50 and 75 lbs, the "pure blooded" red wolves at chehaw aint no bigger than that. There are 2 adults at chehaw that are in some kinda federal breeding program for red wolves.
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Old 05-24-2009, 01:28 PM
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I just moved from Sasser from a place that backed up to a peanut/cotton field. Right after they harvested the peanuts 2 years ago, I would see a huge coyote come out to the same spot in the field for about 2 weeks marking.

It was way bigger and redder than the coyotes I would see in nw ga where I'm from.
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Old 05-24-2009, 04:55 PM
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We had a black bear in Cedartown a few years ago. It was right in the middle of town behind Taco Bell. I leaving taco bell and noticed a bunch of cops and a couple of DNR officers so I walked over and there was a small black bear up in a tree. They tranqed it and relocated it.

Also as a side note. Arizona now has a breeding population of Jaguar, the third largest cat in the world.
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Old 05-27-2009, 09:47 PM
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I saw a red wolf while trout fishing on the far side of Fontana Lake (the boat access side) in the mid 1990's. It crossed the creek I was fishing about 30 feet above me. At the time, I had never seen a coyote in the wild and assumed that was what it was. About an hour later, a park ranger came walking down the AT bordering the stream and we struck up a conversation. I described what I had seen (looked like a red German Shepherd to me) and he told me he figured it to be a wolf.
I wish I had a picture cause I figure I'll never see another.
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Old 05-28-2009, 11:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
A red wolf looks so much like a coyote, it ain`t funny. At a glance, they could pass for each other.

Yes, they are still in existence, North Carolina, I believe, has some.
I saw a red wolf in Rabun county a few years back while fishing Tallulah river above Persimmon. I was walking up the dirt road and a truck came down past me. Soon as he passed I walked around the curve and the wolf was crossing the road about 30-40 feet from me. Soon as he saw me he jumped up the mtn about 100 feet and stopped to look at me.
I got a good look and it was a wolf- no doubt about it.
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Old 06-11-2009, 03:11 PM
kletzenklueffer kletzenklueffer is offline
 
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I grew up with a friend that had a mexican wolf for a pet. His dad was LEO out in California. The wolf had reportedly been stolen from a zoo or refuge. She was great and very very smart (took all commands in english and german). Later he got an 85% tundra wolf timber wolf mix. she had several litters and dies of old age. She was around 110 pounds and listened to me as well as her master. I say that to say I'm familiar with wolves.

This past year hunting in the Northe Georgia mountains I was sitting at the top of a saddle between mountains where I know deer cross. After about 30 minutes I saw moition through the leaves so i raise my rifle expecting to see a deer. Out from behind a tree came the canide. Looking through the scope it looked big, so I dropped the rifle a bit to see it with the naked eye. It was about 70 yards away. I thought to my self that is one big coyote, then another look through the scope, it was marked like a wolf and the size of a GSD. I'd guess 80 pounds on the low end. I'll be hunting up there again this fall/winter. This time I think I'll take a distress call and see what shows up.
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Old 07-09-2009, 09:55 PM
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I live at the east valley entrance to pine log wma and I swear I have seen a wolf across the field in front of the house it was way bigger than a yote and its eyes were what gave it away glad someone else has seen one here know one belives me. Also when the yotes get to going sometimes what sounds like a wolf chimes in and everything else goes silent.
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Old 07-09-2009, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by ChristopherA.King View Post
I live at the east valley entrance to pine log wma and I swear I have seen a wolf across the field in front of the house it was way bigger than a yote and its eyes were what gave it away glad someone else has seen one here know one belives me. Also when the yotes get to going sometimes what sounds like a wolf chimes in and everything else goes silent.
I totally believe you because I've seen 1 once around here and it was NO coyote! I just didn't bother to tell anyone because people are so adamant that there probably aren't any this far south and they'll think I'm just a dumb female. It was completely different in size, form, and coloration and nowhere near as skittish as yotes. And, yes, the eyes were different in my case as well. Very distinct.
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Old 07-10-2009, 01:02 AM
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I totally believe you because I've seen 1 once around here and it was NO coyote! I just didn't bother to tell anyone because people are so adamant that there probably aren't any this far south and they'll think I'm just a dumb female. It was completely different in size, form, and coloration and nowhere near as skittish as yotes. And, yes, the eyes were different in my case as well. Very distinct.
I dont think you are a "Dumb Female" . However I dont think there are any wolves in GA. And if you think a coyote is "Skittish" you should compare it to a wolf. Many great outdoorsmen have spent their entire lives in the wild and never seen one!! I talked to a trapper in Ontario once and he said they were almost impossible to trap or even see for that matter.
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Old 07-10-2009, 01:33 AM
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Default Red Wolves in Elbert County

I have been hunting and fishing around Lake Russell for 20 years. In that time I have seen many tracks that according to my tracking book are Red Wolves. Most of the tracks were always found when I was following deer tracks.

I did a lot of research and found out that back in the mid 1980's Elbert county actually brought in a few mated pairs of Red Wolves to "help control the deer population".

After all these years, I finally actually saw one up close on my property about the first week of May.

We also have several pics of a pretty good size black bear on the trail cams!
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Old 07-14-2009, 05:53 AM
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this is a pic of one from chehaw if it helps any.
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Old 07-14-2009, 08:04 PM
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If you think its hard to see a wolf, you need to research the selway wilderness in idaho. the elk cow calf ratio is 3 calf to 100 cows. I just spent 4 days packed in fishing and saw plenty of sign.
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Old 07-16-2009, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by siberian1 View Post
I dont think you are a "Dumb Female" . However I dont think there are any wolves in GA. And if you think a coyote is "Skittish" you should compare it to a wolf. Many great outdoorsmen have spent their entire lives in the wild and never seen one!! I talked to a trapper in Ontario once and he said they were almost impossible to trap or even see for that matter.
Ive been hunting for 25 years and have never seen a bobcat! If there that hard to see, what makes you think they are not here? Youd be amazed what could be living in your backyard and never see.
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Old 07-16-2009, 04:50 PM
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Ive been hunting for 25 years and have never seen a bobcat! If there that hard to see, what makes you think they are not here? Youd be amazed what could be living in your backyard and never see.
Point taken. I just dont think the wolf would have enough habitat to survive here in GA. Even though you may not have seen a bobcat here, plenty of them are killed every winter. However..Have you ever seen a wolf that was killed here in GA??
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Old 07-17-2009, 04:57 PM
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Point taken. I just dont think the wolf would have enough habitat to survive here in GA. Even though you may not have seen a bobcat here, plenty of them are killed every winter. However..Have you ever seen a wolf that was killed here in GA??
No, But I have seen a Maine mutant in Taylor county Google it!
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Old 07-19-2009, 11:19 AM
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On Nov. 16, Dave Adams of Newnan was deer hunting with a muzzleloader on U.S. Army Corps of Engineers property along West Point Lake when he shot and killed a male cougar that weighed 140 pounds. The property was south of Hwy 109 near the Abbottsford community west of LaGrange.
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Old 10-07-2009, 09:58 PM
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Default Wolves in North Georgia

Hi Fans...for those who would like to wish our Wolves good luck before they head to So. Georgia this week...Ive been told to pass it on that they will be leaving from the Raddison in Nashua on Thursday at noon. They will be traveling via a sleeper bus.
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