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  #1  
Old 11-28-2008, 09:32 PM
CTY CTY is offline
 
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Default Double Star AR-15? opinions?

Can anyone please provide me feedback on the quality of Double Star AR-15's? How do they compare to RRA, DPMS, etc.....?
As always thanks for your help
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Old 11-28-2008, 09:48 PM
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Complete Double Star gun or just a DS lower built with quality parts?
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Old 11-28-2008, 09:53 PM
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complete double star
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Old 11-28-2008, 10:00 PM
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Low-end AR. Most are decent rifles for most casual users. They like to "poo-poo" chrome-lined barrels as something not really needed and bash the "big boy" companies by making statements like they all get the same parts from the same companies and assemble basically the same guns.

Yeah. Call them and ask them if they MP test anything or if they even know what shot peening a bolt means. Ask what percentage of parts are actually inspected before being slapped together.

Sorry but there IS a difference in parts quality.

But like I said, most average shooters who don't put a lot of rounds through their guns will probably be okay with one. Just inspect the weapon first and don't be shocked if little parts start to break sooner than expected. Also, don't be shocked if you get cases stuck in the chrome-less chamber.
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Old 11-28-2008, 10:00 PM
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Better than an Olypmic Arms! LOL.
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Old 11-28-2008, 10:05 PM
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Better than an Olypmic Arms! LOL.
x2!
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Old 11-28-2008, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by CTY View Post
Can anyone please provide me feedback on the quality of Double Star AR-15's? How do they compare to RRA, DPMS, etc.....?
As always thanks for your help
Stag makes a fine rifle for the money...
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Old 11-29-2008, 07:15 PM
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Good advice on everything so far. I would try to stick with a well known brand for resale. If you never plan to sell it, then get whatever you want, as long as it is not a Vulcan, or I dare say, Olympic. They are pretty crappy sometimes.
I like Smith, Stag, Rock River(although I think they are overpriced for what they are), Anvil Arms, DPMS is Ok(I like their finish), some others I can't think of right now. Of course, over the 1000 mark and you are in LMT, Noveske, Colt, Les Baer, White Oak, and the really nice custom guns over 2000. How much do you want to spend? Notice I made no comment to Bushmaster, on purpose.
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Old 12-04-2008, 01:49 PM
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Bash Oly all you want, for the price I have had nothing but good to say for mine. There are some differences but, as stated they were kinda hit and miss on Quality Control but I think they are much better than most are comparing to, from a few years ago. But that being said.

I Think any AR from a major company will be fine. As stated above DPMS has one of the nicer finishes comparing it to similar priced units. Rock River's are over priced to me. And I've not had any expierence with a Bushy, other than a friends rifle. I have an Oly, DPMS and had a RRA issued. If you ask one the net, no matter what brand someone will have a bad expeirence from any given gun, no matter who makes it. Just look at what you're gonna use if for and shop around. Try to hold and inspect all the rifles in the price range you are shopping for to see the difference.
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Old 12-04-2008, 03:05 PM
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Bash Oly all you want, for the price I have had nothing but good to say for mine. There are some differences but, as stated they were kinda hit and miss on Quality Control but I think they are much better than most are comparing to, from a few years ago. But that being said.

I Think any AR from a major company will be fine. As stated above DPMS has one of the nicer finishes comparing it to similar priced units. Rock River's are over priced to me. And I've not had any expierence with a Bushy, other than a friends rifle. I have an Oly, DPMS and had a RRA issued. If you ask one the net, no matter what brand someone will have a bad expeirence from any given gun, no matter who makes it. Just look at what you're gonna use if for and shop around. Try to hold and inspect all the rifles in the price range you are shopping for to see the difference.
Many low-end manufacturers are buying many of their parts from Taiwan and other foreign markets. The parts are NOT to the same quality as higher-end manufacturers.

Your point about any manufacturer having some issues is a valid one. The bigger issue is the trends of products. And frankly some of the quality issues fluctuate over time. For example, at one point Bushmaster was an extremely high quality manufacturer. But they went through periods where they had many rifles leave the factory with badly canted front sight bases, terrible purple anodizing, weak bolts (Iíve broken three in the last 18 months), etc. LMT used to be a top tier manufacturer and even very recently Iíve said on this board I thought LMT was on par with Sabre Defence, Colt and a few other high-end manufacturers. I no longer believe that to be the case. Their current production is lacking in many areas included barrels with threads that are not concentric and other obvious quality deficiencies and their service has also been lacking. Stag was top of the ďtier twoĒ guys a couple years ago but their quality took a dip. Now from what I am seeing Iím coming back to thinking they have really good currently produced products.

The higher end guys use quality parts made from quality materials. The really high-end guys (like Sabre and Colt) do things like shot peen their bolts, MP testing bolts, carriers, etc. Middle tier guys donít do that.

It really boils down to what someone wants to do with the rifle. A low-end gun like an Oly Arms CAN shoot okay and can certainly be a reliable gun for the average shooter. The issues are that you are more likely to have parts breakage or premature wear with a low-end rifle. You also will NOT get the same barrel life.

I mentioned trends before but got myself off track. Low-end guns might work for average shooters. Go ask top instructors what they see in their classes. Ask Tactical Response, Ken Hackathorn, Pat Rogers, Larry Vickers, Dave Harrington, Thunder Ranch, etc. what they think of Oly Arms, Double Star and other low-end guns. They will laugh in your face. The guns wonít make it through these classes. In the classes we host we also see these guns fail all the time. Same as during matches. They simply wonít hold up as well as higher-end guns.

I own several high quality ARs. Iíve put over 10K rounds through just one of them this year. Iíve got over 30K rounds through another and a lot of that was very abusive full-auto firing. The guns hold up because they are made with high-end parts.

Decide what is best for you. If you want something you can abuse a bit when the time comes, buy accordingly. The guy who shoots maybe 1K rounds a year from a bench in only the nicest conditions will probably be perfectly happy with a low-end gun from Taiwan.

Regards.
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Old 12-04-2008, 09:06 PM
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BookHound
what is your opinion of the Stainless steel Wilson barrels that that DS use in their HBAR uppers?
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Old 12-04-2008, 09:34 PM
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BookHound
what is your opinion of the Stainless steel Wilson barrels that that DS use in their HBAR uppers?
All my Rock Rivers have had Wilson Combat barrels (chrome moly) and they have been very accurate. I assume the DS use the same?
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Old 12-04-2008, 09:36 PM
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Yeah, I think they are okay for the $$.
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Old 12-06-2008, 09:33 AM
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Ask Tactical Response, Ken Hackathorn, Pat Rogers, Larry Vickers, Dave Harrington, Thunder Ranch, etc. what they think of Oly Arms, Double Star and other low-end guns. They will laugh in your face. The guns wonít make it through these classes. In the classes we host we also see these guns fail all the time. Same as during matches. They simply wonít hold up as well as higher-end guns.

The above was from an earlier post........If you watch Larry Vickers TV show, one of his sponsers is Double Star. To me that must mean that he approves of them. Or he just likes their money, and it looks like they pay alot judging by the size pants Larry is wearing these days. I watched the show today and it looks like he is eating pretty well.
Bottom line: DoubleStar would be a good AR for 95% of the people that buy Ar,s. If you find a good deal on one buy it.
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Old 12-06-2008, 09:46 AM
blackriflerandy blackriflerandy is offline
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A lot of good info on DS, I have two of them and they function just as well as my Colt 6920's or Bushmaster Modular or RRA. and Stag It's sorta like Ford or Chevy

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.htm...f=118&t=388934


Randy
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Old 12-06-2008, 11:29 AM
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I'm not saying that the lower end are as "good". I'm saying that I've not had any issue with mine. I know that MP tested barrels and bolts are a better quality. And you pay for that kind of Quality Control too.

As to the Stainless steel barrel's, they will shoot out faster due to it being a "softer" metal. That is not to say you will wear one out, but metal to metal Stainless is will not wear as long as Chromemoly. I'm sure there are some stainless barrel that use different materials. I have a SS and love it, but I also have a Chrome lined Chrome Moly barrel for my shooter.
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Old 12-06-2008, 11:35 AM
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I think the issue here is what is your intentions. If you want a zombie slayer then you need something that is going to hold up under extreme circumstances. If you want an AR15 to show off to the wife and plink with then an Oly or DS is fine.

I think an AR15 is one of those things that you get out of it what you put into it. If you go with cheap parts, you will end up with less than stellar performance.

It is tempting to go cheap just to have an AR15, I use to sell Oly plinker models to people like hot cakes just because they wanted an AR15 and the $650 price tag was so tempting.

However, if you spend the extra coin you will have something that you can not only show off to your wife, plink with, make the other boys and girls go "oh" and "ah" at the range, but also bet your life on if the going ever got rough.

If there is even a slight chance that you may end up betting your life or the life of your family on your rifle of choice someday, don't you want the best you can get? I sure do.
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Old 12-06-2008, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SSG View Post

The above was from an earlier post........If you watch Larry Vickers TV show, one of his sponsers is Double Star. To me that must mean that he approves of them. Or he just likes their money, and it looks like they pay alot judging by the size pants Larry is wearing these days. I watched the show today and it looks like he is eating pretty well.
Bottom line: DoubleStar would be a good AR for 95% of the people that buy Ar,s. If you find a good deal on one buy it.
Larry will support anyone who will pay him. Ask him to be candid about the failures in his classes.
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Old 12-06-2008, 03:32 PM
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I have had very good luck with their lowers, and have built three guns using DS stripped lowers this year alone. Dimensions were in spec, and mag wells were not too tight in any of the three with the variety of mags I have on hand.

Now, I can't say on the quality of their upper parts, as I haven't used them.
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Old 12-06-2008, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason280 View Post
I have had very good luck with their lowers, and have built three guns using DS stripped lowers this year alone. Dimensions were in spec, and mag wells were not too tight in any of the three with the variety of mags I have on hand.

Now, I can't say on the quality of their upper parts, as I haven't used them.
Same here,no problems with the DS lowers.
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Old 12-06-2008, 10:33 PM
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I have a J&T dist. upper which is built by Double star I think. It has been a great shooter for me. Never had a problem with it, no jams,and shoots any ammo I run thru it. I don't think I will ever shoot 30k thru one but after a little over 2k trouble free rounds I'm happy with mine.
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Old 12-06-2008, 11:12 PM
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I have built and played with several J&T kits. Each one was has been within specs and just fine for the average shooter. Book has it right though, the barrel is the heart of the gun. J&T used to use Wilson and ER Shaw for their barrels, and that is what sold me on them. However the last kit i recvd had a DSC barrel on it. They have started putting their own barrels on. I just recently replaced my barrel with an ER Shaw 10.5" CL barrel. So i will be giving Mark a call for a SBR stamp.

rich
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Old 12-13-2008, 11:03 AM
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Bookhound definitely has it right. I am disappointed to hear that LMT's quality has slipped, as that was the next AR that I was going to build. Guns & Ammo's Combat Tactics Summer 2008 had an excellent article titled "The Truth About Mil-Spec". J&T/Doublestar was not even mentioned. They rated AR's in the following order:
1. Colt 6930, 2. LMT, 3. Noveske N4, 4. Sabre Defense XR-15, 5. S&W M&P 15, 6. CMMG 16" M4, 7. Stag Model 1, 8. Bushmaster, 9. Rock River, 10. Armalite, 11. Olympic, 12. DPMS
FN would be on top of this list if they sold their version of the AR-15/M-16 to civilians being that they make quality products.
Definitely stay away from Model 1 Sales. I know this from past experience (canted front & rear sights, metal shavings in the bore). I have also heard that some of their parts are made in Mexico. While I have built a J&T in the past and have one of their uppers, I trust my Colt 6920 for dangerous situations. You get what you pay for in my opinion.

Last edited by meausoc; 12-13-2008 at 12:09 PM.
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Old 01-16-2012, 10:55 PM
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Talking Doublestar Rifles

I have to chime in here. I don't consider myself an AR authority, but I know my way around one. I was in the Navy in the late 80's in a Gunnery Division Overseas and have spent my fair share of Uncle Sam's lead.
Everything from a 5 inch 54" to a 20 mm cannon.
I own 7 ar's. Armalites, a colt A3, a ruger 556, a sig swat, and a Doublestar.
I have an Armalite A-2 that is my most accurate, the colt is second. The other two Armalites are Ar-10's. An A4 and the National Match. The ruger and sig swat are piston driven and in a class all of their own, but I hold nothing back for the Doublestar Carbine.
I purchased it at the Knob Creek Machine Gun Shoot in the fall of 2009 for $700. It has a chrome lined heavy 16" barrel witha 1/9 twist, flat top with carry handle, standard A2 front sight and carbine hand guards with heat sheilds. I currently have an aimpoint pro on it and shot it yesterday putting 40 rounds into a 2 inch ring at 100 yards.
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Old 01-16-2012, 11:24 PM
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Well, since we're resurrecting a 3 year-old thread anyway.....


I have a DS M4 with a 16" chrome-lined 1:7 barrel. I've put a LOT of rounds through it, quite a few using an SST bump-fire stock.....never a single hiccup, EXCEPT when I was using cheap steel-cased Russian Ammo and had to stop and clean every 100 rounds. As long as I stick with XM855 Lake City ammo and keep it wet, it's good to go. When I'm playing with the SST, I don't run full mag bursts through it very often and I stop and let the barrel cool frequently.... so far it's been a good weapon. I bought it for that purpose...I didn't want to destroy a Bravo Company or Lewis Machine & Tool upper...but it's stood up pretty good. I've probably got a total of 3-4k rounds through it now.
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