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Old 01-11-2009, 07:37 PM
Mad dog308 Mad dog308 is offline
 
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Default Does anyone use cattle minerals?

I am looking around trying to figure out what type of minerals to put out for deer and it appears that it may be an expensive project. Has anyone had luck with cattle minerals? I have done some research online and most of what I found said that they could be harmful to deer. Is that true or is this information being put out by the same companies that sell the expensive deer minerals?
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Old 01-11-2009, 09:23 PM
Twenty five ought six Twenty five ought six is offline
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I use "red salt" from the feed store. It's mineralized salt that's about the same thing as the deer blocks.

I usually bury one of the sweet blocks, and rake in a bag of the "red salt". I've been doing this for 20 year + and I've never seen any harmful effects. They all are 90% salt.
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Old 01-12-2009, 08:47 AM
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I have always used the cattle salt w/o any problems. Mix it into turned dirt. 1 per 80 acres. Add half a bag each month. I startine in Feb. And go until Aug. It seems to REALLY help w/antler growth.
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Old 01-12-2009, 09:15 AM
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I've used dairy mineral mixes in the past. You can compare labels from a bag of name brand 'deer minerals' to high quality dairy minerals and come pretty close to the same contents on some. But if I recall there was not much difference in cost.
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Old 01-12-2009, 09:36 AM
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Dairy Calf or either hog minerals. It works!
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Old 01-12-2009, 07:30 PM
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Mad Dog,

This recipe was obtained from the Missouri Sportsman website, check it out at www.mosportsmen.com
The estimated costs are signifantly higher today. Not too many feed stores carry the dicalcium phosphate.

Dicalcium phosphate is used primarily as dairy cattle feed additive and other animal feeds. It promotes feed digestion, weight gain, and milk production, which is obviously beneficial to a lactating doe deer. Dicalcium phosphate contains roughly between 18 and 21 percent phosphorus and 19 to 23 percent calcium.

You're probably asking why this is important by now. Well if your talking about growing antlers on deer you need to take a look at what is the make up of a deer antler.

Hardened antlers contain 40 to 50 percent organic matter from mostly proteins while the most abundant minerals consist of calcium and phosphorus. The demands for these minerals on a daily basis can be significant for antler production.
In addition, a lactating doe's milk contains high percentages of both calcium and phosphorus to pass on to their young, also causing a significant mineral drain on the doe. What makes all this significant is the fact that phosphorous cannot be synthesized by the body so it must be provided in needed levels in the animals diet. This is where a mineral mix such as this could be very valuable if an area is lacking in these naturally.


Trace mineral salts do two things for deer. The first and foremost is it does have the salt/sodium to attract the deer and promote the use of the mineral. Secondly, it provides the trace minerals such as magnesium and potassium that are very important to herd health but are not found in significant quantities like others.
Stock salt is again like part of the above. It has the sodium to attract deer to the minerals. Most mineral mixes have salt as their most abundant ingredient since a mix of just phosphorus, calcium, and other trace minerals have little attraction to deer once mixed with the soil.
As for directions of use we suggest using a 3-pound coffee can to measure out 1 part dicalcium phoshate, 2 parts trace mineral salt, and 1 part stock salt. Mix all these together once ready to use but keep components separate during storage. Dig a hole in the soil about 36 inches wide and 6 inches deep and mix the mineral well with the soil. This should be replenished after 6 months and then once a year thereafter. Most use seems to be during the spring and summer months on mineral licks. It's a good idea to keep these areas replenished and stocked in the same spot to maintain use.
Because of shedding of the summer coat begins this time of year, the deer need the salt, and maybe next year you will get this out early in the year to help with antler growth and fawn health.

Good 'Huntin!





Mineral Lick November 14th, 2001
WHITETAIL DEER HOMEMADE MINERAL MIX RECIPE
Printable version
Ingredients: Makes 200 lbs. for about $23.00

1 part Di-calcium phosphate, this is a dairy feed additive bought at feed stores.
Comes in 50lb Bags at around $11.00 you need one bag.

2 parts Trace mineral salt, the red and loos kind without the medications.
Comes in 50lb Bags at around $5.00 you need two bags.

1 part Stock salt, ice cream salt.
Comes in 50lb Bags at around $2.00 you need one bag.

Directions:

-Use a 3 pound or similar size coffee can to use as your measure for each part of the mix.

-Mix all together well but not until read to use, keep ingredients separate until ready to put to use.

-Dig or tear up a circle in the soil about 36 inches wide and about 6 inches deep.

-Mix your mineral mixture with the soil.

Maintenance:

-Replenish in 6 months with fresh supply of mineral, and then each year there after.

Hope to see you in the woods this weekend. horntagger
This picture was taken June 30th of 2001 - The homemade mineral had been in this since late fall of 2000.

This picture of the same homemade mineral lick was taken August 18th, 2001.




Scroll back up and look at the two pictures. The condition of the barb wire is getting worn down
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Old 01-12-2009, 07:33 PM
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For the past few years we have been using goat minerals with great luck, they tear it up. It is also very seasonal and during certain times of the year (rut to about now) they stop using it, then when growing fawns or horns they are all in it heavy. I checked mine last weekend and they are not using it yet, but according to past history in about 4 weeks they will be back at it again. I guess that nature tells them when their bodies need it.....................I buy the goat stuff at a feed store and one bag refreshes three sites and I do it about every three or four weeks. Hope that helps
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Old 01-13-2009, 10:09 AM
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Just be careful when using goat minerals that they don't have too much selenium. Some sheep and goat minerals have a much higher percentage of selenium than those designed for other ruminents like deer and elk and can have some negative results.
Make a note of the percentages of calcium, phosphorus, magnesium and selenium on a bag of deer/elk minerals and then keep as close to those percentages in a dairy cattle or goat mix.
When you first start out you may need to mix a little more loose sodium (salt) for the first month or so to get the deer used to it, then you can cut back on the extra salt.
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Old 01-14-2009, 10:35 AM
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use the frm cattle mineral in red/ white bag and mix in with dirt real good and I top mine off with morton salt and i pour about 5-6 gallons of water on it mixing up the site real good. LOOK UP ON THIS SITE FOR PICTURES AND POSTS ABOUT MINERAL LICKS DIFF RECIPES AND SUCH , have done this for years and it works well have several established sites that get reworked year in and year out. The does will start using these sites in the next couple to few weeks right up until they have their fawns and then bucks will start using later on towards summer. Don't make site in wide open and have near good deer trail and preferably water nearby, replinish after good rains and i always wash into the soil good.
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Old 01-14-2009, 02:50 PM
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Default cattle mineral reply

I have used cattle mineral for years. The key is to get the trace mineral salts with a Max of 50% salt NaCl and minimum of 25% salt. usually the feed store refer to this as Red salt or pasture mineral. The key minerals are Phosporus, Calcium & Trace minerals are Copper ,magnesium, & Selenium for antler growth. Do not use the high magnesium ( HI-Mag) There is a great article on minerals on the QDM site. Trace minerals help all the deer utilize forage better so more nutrition from natural sources, so bigger fawns via better milk production & antler growth for bucks. You 'll see a increase in mass on your yearling bucks (spikes) quickly.
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Old 01-14-2009, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Belk View Post
I have used cattle mineral for years. The key is to get the trace mineral salts with a Max of 50% salt NaCl and minimum of 25% salt. usually the feed store refer to this as Red salt or pasture mineral. The key minerals are Phosporus, Calcium & Trace minerals are Copper ,magnesium, & Selenium for antler growth. Do not use the high magnesium ( HI-Mag) There is a great article on minerals on the QDM site. Trace minerals help all the deer utilize forage better so more nutrition from natural sources, so bigger fawns via better milk production & antler growth for bucks. You 'll see a increase in mass on your yearling bucks (spikes) quickly.
You got that right....I can show many pics of very healthy fawns, huge in fact and healthy young bucks and does as well as very healthy large bucks......of course i would like to think a combination of minerals, protein both pellets and food plots in clover, chicory and lab lab for years and some of the farm land around us all contribute to the big puzzle. It helps to have some good genetics running around as well!
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Old 01-14-2009, 08:26 PM
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Here is the D2D proven mineral site

Shovel
Hammer
Rock Rake
(2) Bag of White Mixin' Salt *50 lbs
(1) Bag of Ragland 12% Hy-Phos Mineral Salt *50 lbs
(1) Bag of FRM Cattle Mineral *50 lbs
(1) Trace Mineral Block *50 lbs
(1) Bag of Whole Kernel Corn *50 lbs
(1) Gallon Jug of Molasses
(2) Box of Rock Salt *5 lbs
(1) Bag of Plain White Sugar *5 lbs
(1) 5 Gallon Bucket of Water

This is your grocery list, so make sure you have everyone of these items prior to heading out to build your mineral site. Once you have all the tools and necessary items in hand, you're ready for step two.
The next part of the mineral site plan is site location. This is VERY important and can mean the difference between deer using the site and not. Let's look at some do's and don'ts on where to locate a mineral site...

DO locate the site next to an established trail.
DO try to find a heavy based soil with more clay than sand. (*This is not a must but will help)
DO place the site next to or in cover that hides deer.

DO NOT locate the site out in the wide open.
DO NOT locate the site next to a road or high vehicle volume area.
DO NOT use this site for luring deer for illegal harvest practices.

When looking for a place to locate a site, I generally tell folks to find a trail leading to a food plot and locate the site just a few yards back off the edge of the plot in the thicker brush area. Deer use the area coming to the plots and will feel safe using the lick being that it's in cover.
Now that you've got the know how of where to locate the site and you come to that area, it's time to build your masterpiece. Follow the steps below...

#1: Clear a spot that's 5'x5' in size.
#2: Using the shovel, dig a small 8" to 10" hole in the center of the cleared area and allow the edges of the hole to very gently slop outward to the edges of the 5'x5' cleared spot. This area will look like a dent when prepared properly.
#3: Now take the rock rake and rough up the soil on the spot.
#4: Place the trace mineral block in the very center of your site.
#5: With the hammer, bust up the block into smaller chunks and leave all the chunks piled up in the center of the site.
#6: Take the first bag of white salt and pour it all over the site (Center and sides)
#7: Now take the bag of Ragland 12% Hy-Phos minerals and pour it over on top of the white salt that's on the site.
#8: With your rock rake, work the white salt & Hy-Phos minerals into the ground.
#9: Pour about 3 gallons of water *SLOWLY* onto the entire site and allow it to go into the ground.
#10: Pour all of the FRM Cattle mineral, all of the Rock Salt, and all of the Sugar on the entire site. Mix it in with the rock rake but do not add any extra water yet.
#11: Pour about half of the second bag of white salt onto the entire site. DO NOT MIX IT IN YET.
#12: Take the gallon jug of molasses and starting from the outside edges and working your way in pour it out slowly. Try to cover the entire site.
#13: Pour the rest of the white salt you have left on top of the site so that in covers up the molasses.
#14: Pour the remainder of the water on the site *SLOWLY* but do not mix it in.
#15: Spread the corn all around the site, out to about 20 yards from the site. Allow the concentration of corn to come in near the site.

Your site is built. Now with any luck you'll get a few rains that will help melt the contents and the deer should start to take to it pretty quick. Upkeep of the site depends on how much it's being used. If the site were really getting hit hard I would refresh the site every quarter. Refreshing the site usually consists of one bag of plain white salt and one bag of Ragland Hy-Phos minerals. Always mix the refresh contents into the site with a rock rake. At least once a year, add a 5 lb bag of sugar and a gallon of molasses. Whenever you add sweetner to a site also add High Content Minerals like FRM Cattle Mineral.

You can buy FRM Minerals from most any feed/seed store. Ragland 12% Hy-Phos mineral can be bought from the "Tractor Supply Stores." Any mineral salts that contain over 10% calcium and phosphorus will suffice though.

I wish you the best of luck with your sites and remember this is only one step in the right direction!
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Old 01-14-2009, 08:54 PM
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FRM Trace Mineral not the block but the ground up in the bag used it for 6 years now
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Old 01-15-2009, 09:28 AM
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Default Here is what Kent kammermeyer says on minerals

I got this off Cooper seeds web site! Just FYI

How to Use Mineral/Salt Mixes
By Kent Kammermeyer

Mineral supplements should be placed in February (South) and March (North) to coincide with spring green-up. Any earlier than this will waste salt because it leaches downward through the soil during rain events before deer begin using it. Apply the mineral salt at the rate of about one 50-lb bag per 200 acres for easy access by all deer. Dig a shallow depression on a flat surface of clay soil and mix the salt with the soil. Reapply pure salt and mix with dirt in June. No salt is needed for fall or winter when deer quit using it anyway. Look for bag salt with an analysis of 25-40% Sodium Chloride, 16-18% Calcium and 8-10% Phosphorus. Block salt does not contain enough Calcium and Phosphorus which is essential for antler growth, doe lactation and fawn rearing. According to your soil tests, both are limiting on your propery and may be contributing to your skull fracture problems. Cooper Seed Co. has this high Calcium/Phosphorus salt for a very reasonable price.
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Old 01-15-2009, 10:06 AM
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i disagree with time frame ....last 2 years left a camera on my established mineral sites from last weekend of season till start of hunting season and the does started hitting my sites the last weekend right up until they had their fawns and the bucks didn't really start hitting them until early summer till first of gun but what happened with me since i started feeding protein pellets the bucks didn't hit the mineral sites anywhere near as much as before i started protein pellets. Likewise the does didn't start hammering the protein troughs until after they had their fawns and now for 2 years i've watched fawns grow up on trough!
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Old 01-15-2009, 01:15 PM
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Usage will depend a lot on what nutrients are already in your soil that is being transferred into the browse the deer eat. Salt is an attractant. A pure salt site will most times get more usage than a 'mineral' site. That proves nothing except that deer love salt. Feeding a high quality deer feed provides a lot of the nutrients in the feed itself. Browse and food plots that are high in nutrients will do the most good for health and antler growth...along with allowing bucks to reach maturity.
Clay soils make the best mineral sites as they will not leach the minerals as do sandy soils.
And there are lots of blends, mixes, home made formulas around. Not all will receive the same amount of usage. For example on D2D's own club his formula did not draw much usage. He broke up trace mineral blocks and added them to the sites..95% sodium or more. That drew more usage but it was due to the high salt content. Do any mixes do any good? Research doesn't show that it does but I figure it doesn't hurt. They do help to keep deer in an area and that is what most hunters are looking for.
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Old 01-16-2009, 11:55 PM
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i called a dozen places last year looking for dicalcium phosphate and nobobody had any or knew where to get it
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Old 01-17-2009, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SKINNERZ71 View Post
i called a dozen places last year looking for dicalcium phosphate and nobobody had any or knew where to get it
Ive been buying dical from kimbro brothers in pine mtn for over 25 yrs. They started back on 1 of my old established licks in December this season.
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