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Old 03-24-2009, 11:46 AM
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Default State continually buying up land....

....from timber companies and forcing out hunting leases/clubs that have been there for decades....without so much as a care for the people they are putting out.....and also forcing the county's taxpayers to have to pay the taxes on the land since the State won't have to.....not to mention slowly forcing dog hunting into extinction.....so much to say, only knowing that it will fall on deaf ears since the state does it so secretly it doesn't give the citizens a chance to voice their opinions or fight for their traditions...by the time the citizens find out about it, the sales are already completed.....
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Old 03-24-2009, 12:09 PM
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Default ???

Can you provide a specific example of this happening?
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Old 03-24-2009, 12:17 PM
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Personally I feel your pain and the trouble of loosing promised land that has been hunted for many years, but look at the other side. Timber companies are loosing money and selling land, so it is much better for the state to buy it then some land corporation to buy it, cut all the trees off of it and sell it out in parcels for a new subdivision. At least the state can own and protect the land and still offer citizens access to hunt and fish the land, instead of another large, private, posted property with no access for anybody and the ensuing loss of habitat from development. Remember there are always 2 sides to every issue, not everthing can always be how we want it, but at least there are options to the lesser of 2 evils. Mark
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Old 03-24-2009, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Hopper View Post
Can you provide a specific example of this happening?
not disagreeing with you but I would be curious to see some specific examples as well.

Seems to me that a budget shortfall would put quite an obstacle up for the state to be spending funds on land right now.
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Old 03-24-2009, 03:19 PM
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as of just a week or so ago, the state bought land from Rayonier in Long County that housed 3 hunting clubs totaling in the neighborhood of 13-15,000 acres......with Rayonier maintaining the timber rights...

Markland, I totally understand what you are saying...and don't disagree with it....just airing the frustrations of many hunters and citizens that these things are all done without knowledge of the taxpayers until the deals are done......

the clubs that were bought are/were actually bordering ours....and it's just a view of what is bound to happen with ours soon.....

fishingtiger.....i would have thought the SAME thing, but apparently they have the money for it...
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Old 03-24-2009, 04:19 PM
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Does the possibility exist that this is a tax break, Rayonier donating the land?
See, it would work to the timber companies advantage to donate the land with the right to harvest the timber upcoming for harvest and then replant it after harvest as another donation with the stipulation of first harvest rights, etc, etc.
Give us a good description of where the properties are so as we can keep an eye out on its progress.
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Old 03-24-2009, 07:08 PM
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Dang, this is a no-win situation for the DNR. Virtually everyone complains that there is not enough access to public lands for hunters, and now this.
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Old 03-24-2009, 07:38 PM
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The land that Jackflash is talking about won't be a WMA. This land was bought to extend the bird watching lands that border Townsend WMA.
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Old 03-24-2009, 08:05 PM
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I was wondering when they would be able to posses both sides of the river and how far they would be able to reach.
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Old 03-24-2009, 09:11 PM
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It will be hunted but probably not this coming year. The land usually sits out a year before it is hunted.
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Old 03-25-2009, 11:55 AM
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Default state land

I won`t complain about the state buying any land as long as we can hunt it.I doubt if a tract that large will be dedicated to bird watching only.I`ve learned not to EVER take a club for granted.I never expect to always being able to hunt land that I don`t own.If the timber company is going to sell the land to someone,I`d rather it be the state.
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Old 03-25-2009, 12:14 PM
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Rob,
Hadn't heard that all of Middleton Lake and Wesley Lake would be bird watching lands, neither had Hal...was under the impression that the state was trying to get all that and Piney Island, along with the DOT land and what is Townsend WMA now as one piece.
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Old 03-25-2009, 12:21 PM
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You know I keep hearing about ALL THESE dadgum birdwatchers. Where the heck are they. Man you would think that WalMart would have a HUGE Birdwatching section. I think its a bunch of bull.
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Old 03-25-2009, 12:34 PM
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If you hunt Rayonier land in southeast Georgia, then you need to follow HB 277.

It specifically designates certain road projects to be funded with a new penny sales tax (oh joy, the fiscally conservative Republicans are jacking up another tax).

One of these state mandated projects is to put in interstate access at the intersection of Belfast Siding Road in Bryan County for the express purpose of opening up thousands of acres of Rayonier land for development.

What's particularly curious about this particular project is that DOT has done two studies of the site, and both studies concluded that the interchange was not necessary or needed.
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Old 03-25-2009, 12:50 PM
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I will complain that they can buy land but don't have enough money left in budget to keep the Lodges open in the State Parks therefore people are laid off and buildings waste away, they need to get their priorities in order.
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Old 03-25-2009, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Robk View Post
The land that Jackflash is talking about won't be a WMA. This land was bought to extend the bird watching lands that border Townsend WMA.
Actually, that's not true from what the game warden that is gonna be over it told a family friend a couple days ago who chased him down to find out what was happening.....that land will be apart of the Townsend WMA, as will another 1000+ acres that borders in, and other state land that was acquired a number of years ago along the same stretch....which encompassed land owned by Rayonier and was leased to two other clubs there as well...our club is the only one left between HWY 57 and the Townsend WMA now....
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Old 03-25-2009, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by whtlhntr View Post
Rob,
Hadn't heard that all of Middleton Lake and Wesley Lake would be bird watching lands, neither had Hal...was under the impression that the state was trying to get all that and Piney Island, along with the DOT land and what is Townsend WMA now as one piece.
BINGO..that's what has been told to everyone we've spoken to thus far....

the traditions of dog hunting will be only a memory very soon........and mostly young men (and a few older ones in shape enough to make those long walks and drags out of the WMA's) will be the only ones able to hunt those WMA lands....
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Old 03-25-2009, 03:23 PM
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OK jackflash, i know exactly where your club is now, y'all had somes fires out there a couple of weekends ago. You have both sides as you come down Lennie May towards Blues Reach?
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Old 03-25-2009, 03:37 PM
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Carey Wicker holds that lease on lennie may left of the road there. He's got 2200 acres on both sides of the canal. I spoke to him the other evening and he told me that have that lease again this year. That's all run by legacy wildlife.

The birdwatcher info I got from one of the guys that lost thier club this year. Not an official answer. I haven't spoken to Hal or Bobby yet about it. If townsend went all the way to the river that would be a good deal if you wanted to hunt hogs. Plenty of deer and turkey on Townsend now.

I don't hunt on that side of the river anymore since getting burned on that Buckstop Hunt Club deal last year. I have more than enough deer and turkey land on this side. Just need someplace to kill a few hogs.

Whtlhntr, stop into the store next week if you get a chance. I haven't seen you in months.
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Old 03-25-2009, 04:25 PM
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OK jackflash, i know exactly where your club is now, y'all had somes fires out there a couple of weekends ago. You have both sides as you come down Lennie May towards Blues Reach?
my apologies, i was brain dead for a minute and said HWY 57, i meant 84 (between Ludowici and Jesup)...thinkin about too many things at one time.....ours is located on the river between morgan lake and what used to be Middleton Lake hunting club.....and bordered on the other side by mostly the state land and a little bit of private land that comes in off 84 as well...
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Old 03-26-2009, 01:51 PM
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jackflash
OK, you're talking about behind where the old Altamaha club was? From the bridge on down to Middleton Lake?

robk
i'll try and get there next week, only thing is, my wallet always ends up much lighter when i leave there
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Old 03-26-2009, 04:29 PM
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I'll be easy on you next trip. I don't think you are do to buy any fencing for a while so you should be good. I'm chasing turkeys all this week anyway.

R
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Old 03-27-2009, 08:05 AM
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Default I guess

the state wouldn't sign a lease of the state owned property with a small group of hunters.
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Old 03-27-2009, 09:54 AM
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I'd guess that you are right
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Old 03-27-2009, 12:58 PM
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While ya'll are crying about the state buying up the land, here in Houston Co. we are wishing the state woud buy some land. Oaky Woods WMA was for sale. A timber company owned it and put it on the market. Group of Perdue's buds got together and bought it for dirt cheap. Perdue bought some on the border of it. Now the conglomerate, including the fellow that owns Sports Center in Perry, (think his name is Ayers) and a local developer (McGlamery Properties) are threatening to build 30,000 houses on the land. (keep in mind some of this is "protected" wetlands) The state could have bought the land dirt cheap but now if they buy the land these developers will charge a large amount and make a huge profit from ur tax dollars. Google "Save Oaky Woods" for more information.

Not to make light of the construction industry's proplems but it's this kinda greed that makes me glad the prices of houses and the demand for them is deminished.
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Old 03-27-2009, 01:24 PM
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Yep, that is exactly what I was talking about, would much rather the state buy it and have it protected somewhat then turn into another development/subdivision. The animals are running out of places to go in some areas! Just wish the Natures Conservency was more active in the south, they have bought alot of land up in northern and mid west areas and turned them over to the state. Mark
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Old 03-29-2009, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robk View Post
The land that Jackflash is talking about won't be a WMA. This land was bought to extend the bird watching lands that border Townsend WMA.
Incorrect. It will be a WMA and significant portions of the money are from conservation organizations and grants.
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Old 03-29-2009, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by oldman 45 View Post
I will complain that they can buy land but don't have enough money left in budget to keep the Lodges open in the State Parks therefore people are laid off and buildings waste away, they need to get their priorities in order.
The state money that is being used to facilitate this purchase was budgeted in a previous year and specifically for land conservation. As such, it can only be used for land acquisition; it can't be used for operations. That is, whether DNR used this money to buy land or not, it would not change the outcome for lodges and state parks. So either DNR could use it to buy hunting land or some other agency could use it buy the land for other recreational purposes.
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Old 03-29-2009, 08:22 PM
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jackflash and robk I take it that Middleton Lake Hunt club no longer exits. Is Middleton lake ohell lake etc sold to the state? That was all Rayoiner land. Man there was some good fishing in there. Use to be in that club just to fish those lakes. My mom went to high school with the fellow who ran Middleton Lake Hunt Club.
On a side note I do agree with the state buying all the land along the Altamaha to create a buffer zone.
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Old 03-29-2009, 08:35 PM
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If it was used to make a WMA that may be fine but an inside deal to develop homes is not.
















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Old 03-29-2009, 09:50 PM
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John,
I posted that I got the info second hand and stand corrected. Lot's of hogs on that property. be glad to get some access to that peice of property but it sure could have been handled differently for the guys who have hunted that club for years.
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Old 03-31-2009, 07:44 PM
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I don't know what the state is doing but they are buying up everything on both sides of the Altamaha River. I think the only two clubs left are Buck Island and Bolles(Balls) Island. I know a man who owns 1200 acres of virgin timber that joins all the tracts the state has bought. I asked him what the deal was and he said he didn't know but the state had approached him and over twice the fair market value. He said he wasn't selling but is worried the state may run him off, and give him whatever they want. I work for Rayonier and we are kept in the dark about these type of things. Our mill runs off of 65% hardwood, so why would Rayonier sell all their river swamp land, then have to buy timber that was theirs to begin with???
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Old 03-31-2009, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by dustin_horne View Post
Our mill runs off of 65% hardwood, so why would Rayonier sell all their river swamp land, then have to buy timber that was theirs to begin with???
I know what the historic basis that Rayonier is carrying that land at -- a lot of it is less than $200.00 per acre.

It is more profitable for them to sell the land, book the profit, and buy the timber at market prices on an as needed basis.
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Old 04-01-2009, 02:00 AM
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Originally Posted by markland View Post
Just wish the Natures Conservency was more active in the south, they have bought alot of land up in northern and mid west areas and turned them over to the state. Mark
That's what they've done here in NC. The Nature Conservancy bought about 77,000 acres from International Paper and plans to turn all or most of it over to the state for gamelands.
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Old 04-22-2009, 04:24 PM
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Nature Conservacy is the ones running this also. From what I understand, they plan on getting the rest of that riverfront land-i.e. Piney Island, DOT, Joyner Island and Buck Island-probably 1st quarter of next year. That means that Townsend WMA would extend from Griffin Ridge WMA to Miller Lake Rd and beyond. And just one DNR Ranger for all of it.
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Old 04-23-2009, 02:23 AM
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Quote:
Now the conglomerate, including the fellow that owns Sports Center in Perry, (think his name is Ayers) and a local developer (McGlamery Properties) are threatening to build 30,000 houses on the land.
My south Ga geography is a bit rusty but isnt Oaky Woods in or somewhere near Montgomery, Jeff Davis or Ben Hill counties?

Just what are the owners trying to gain by threatening this action?

I'll bet the family jewels NOBODY at this time or any time soon is thinking about building 30,000 houses on land that was formerly the Oaky Woods WMA...:smillies commiting suicide:

One consequence of the economic turmoil we are in is that all of a sudden states are able to get some affordable deals on land...which provide us the public with some excellent outdoor recreation opportunities...
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Old 04-23-2009, 10:08 AM
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Oaky Woods is in Houston County with sprawling Warner Robins knocking on the door and Macon not too far to the north. Now is certainly not the time to build a huge community, but they are also charging the DNR the highest rate than any other leased WMA. The DNR is having to cut their budget pretty much each year and they may be having to close WMAs this year. Ayers and Company will keep on asking their high buying price and will keep asking their high leasing price. The state values the land, but at what price do they decide to get out. If the state does stop leasing the land then the company also knows that they can probably get the same money (or more) leasing to private clubs.
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Old 05-10-2009, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackflash View Post
as of just a week or so ago, the state bought land from Rayonier in Long County that housed 3 hunting clubs totaling in the neighborhood of 13-15,000 acres......with Rayonier maintaining the timber rights...

Markland, I totally understand what you are saying...and don't disagree with it....just airing the frustrations of many hunters and citizens that these things are all done without knowledge of the taxpayers until the deals are done......

the clubs that were bought are/were actually bordering ours....and it's just a view of what is bound to happen with ours soon.....

fishingtiger.....i would have thought the SAME thing, but apparently they have the money for it...
Recent acquisitions are 1,700 acres added to state owned Silver Lake WMA in Seminole County.

7,000 acres was added to Townsend WMA in Long and McIntosh counties.

Rayonier WMA in Brantley and Wayne counties is/was a WMA that is being dropped from the system and the property owner has, in fact, indicated an interest in leasing 12, 524 acres to private clubs.

The King Tract 8885 acres in Ware county is also being dropped from the system with no intentions of the property owner having been stated.

So would you rather that the land have been sold to a developer?
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Old 05-10-2009, 09:37 PM
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Do they have a source of water for those 30,000 proposed homes? Any big dams down that way, I never heard of?
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Old 05-10-2009, 09:50 PM
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Default Wish the state

had bought up a lot of Gwinnett land thirty years ago. Went up to the Lake Lanier dam over the weekend. A lot of hunting land is now subdivision and the tree with the treestand is now a second floor bedroom.
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Old 05-10-2009, 09:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yellowhammer View Post
I won`t complain about the state buying any land as long as we can hunt it.I doubt if a tract that large will be dedicated to bird watching only.I`ve learned not to EVER take a club for granted.I never expect to always being able to hunt land that I don`t own.If the timber company is going to sell the land to someone,I`d rather it be the state.
EXACTLY!!!

Well Put....

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