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Old 06-22-2009, 02:19 PM
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Default Best AR-15

I've been looking at getting an AR-15 but i am having a little trouble finding out which brand is best. Can anyone here give some input? Thanks
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Old 06-22-2009, 02:29 PM
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The "best" at what? It all depends on what you intend on doing with the rifle.
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Old 06-22-2009, 02:34 PM
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a mix of hunting and competition the best "all around" u could say
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Old 06-22-2009, 02:35 PM
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I am partial to RRA, had 7 of them and the fit, finish and accuracy have been great. RRA's are considered mid-tier guns. I have always been too cheap or too broke to afford a top-tier gun.

Spend awhile reading this thread...
http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=247030
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Old 06-22-2009, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sportsman83 View Post
a mix of hunting and competition the best "all around" u could say
I own a Sabre Defence, which I like very much, but I'm sure you could attain the same results with a Bushmaster or the likes.

However, all parts are not created equal. Some will outlast others.

Just depends on how much you want to spend.
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Old 06-22-2009, 03:25 PM
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For the money, and assuming a stock configuration, I would go with LMT. Top tier and only a couple hundred more than your basic BM/DPMS. Colt and Noveske would a few hundred more. If you're going to be decking it out with a rail, VFG, etc., I'd go with Daniel Defense.
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Old 06-22-2009, 03:27 PM
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Rra.
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Old 07-06-2009, 10:05 AM
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Get a Colt 6920 and don't look back. They're about $1300-1400 right now. For a few hundred less look at RRA, but they aren't the same as a Colt
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Old 07-06-2009, 02:59 PM
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Colt 6920.
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Old 07-19-2009, 06:08 PM
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Colt 6920 all the way!!!

Another one that is close is the Smith & Wesson M&P15. These are top quality AR's!!!!!!!
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Old 07-21-2009, 07:23 PM
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Lewis Machine and Tool =LMT ,you want the best you gotta pay for the best.
http://www.lewismachine.net/
BHJ
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Old 07-21-2009, 09:00 PM
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afer a lot of research, I ended up with an LMT MRP CQB (say that 5 times fast) that I like for a variety of reasons. mainly the caliber interchangability (have 5.56 and 6.8 barrels so far). plus if i want to go piston that's an easy upgrade to the standard DI rifle.

Noveske is always ranked very high but i've not played with one, so I can't comment. I also like the Daniel Defense M4, and hard to go wrong with a Colt. I saw hundreds of Colts at Clydes Armory in Athens when I was up there last week. literally.
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Old 07-22-2009, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiskey_33 View Post
The "best" at what? It all depends on what you intend on doing with the rifle.
An excellent question. Budget has a lot to do with it as well. From a guy who has eighteen ARs, I have a lot invested into what I own. I have several different makes and models. They include Colt, LMT, Sabre Defence, CMMG, Del-Ton, LaRue, KAC, and a few others. About half of mine are builds. Some refer to them as Frankenguns. They are assembled with parts from various manufacturers. For example; LMT upper w/ LCW (LMT) lower, CMMG upper w/ LMT lower, CMMG upper w/ Centermass T.C. lower, Model 1 Sales upper w/ Essential Arms lower, and others. The "best" is what you deem is important to you. I would not go too far and say that one brand is best over another. There are several fantastic ARs. It just depends on what you want and expect for the money. I have an AR that I built for less than $600 that funtions perfectly. I also have an AR (.308) that cost over $7,000 that funtions perfectly. I have several in between that do the same thing. My Del-Ton M4 is just as solid as my Colt LE6920 M4 and performs just as well. The fit and finish on all my ARs are all on par with each other. For me, I refuse to buy inferior equipment. I make careful decisions on every weapon I buy or build. If you could see my collection, you would see that. Again, as to the "best", that decision is up to you.
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Old 07-22-2009, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiskey_33 View Post
The "best" at what? It all depends on what you intend on doing with the rifle.
I think this is a good quote. I have an AR that cost me about $2K to build and one that I build for $600. I do own a LMT and it my go to HD rifle. Keep in mind that some of the best rifles I have seen, were not made by parts from one company.

Even Noveske uppers have used other rail system. My first was a Stag Arms complete rifle. It's now a Stag lower an LMT 10.5" upper.

I would set a price range first.
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Old 07-22-2009, 04:48 PM
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check out www.ar15.com.

good info.

also check that site for the

HTF,home town forum.

clown
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Old 07-22-2009, 11:08 PM
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When you ask which one is "best" I'm assuming you are referring to brand.

There is no such animal. There are great ar's, and there are crappy ar's.

Most of the store bought brands are good enough i.e. dpms, BM, RRA, etc.

The uppers and lowers are made by a few companies for everyone except the uppers and lowers that are cnc machined from a solid billet of aluminum.

The most important question is: "Am I buying an AR that will fit me as a person (somatotype), and will it fill the role I need it for?"

The most important parts of the AR are: barrel, trigger assembly, and BCG AND how they are all assembled.

Just make sure you get one that is assembled correctly with quality parts.

All the big names make great ar's but don't forget: Larue, JP Enterprises, and Sun Devil.

For 99.9% of the shooting sports and hunting enthusiasts a dpms, bushmaster, stag, rra will do.

BTW, smith and wesson ar's are no better than the rest - it's the name.
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Old 07-26-2009, 09:56 PM
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Default ARs

From what ive seen lately Daniel Defense is very good. They are mfg in Black Creek, GA. Also LMT & Doublestar is good. Colt is nice of course, make sure you get COLT DEFENSE & not COLT COMMERCIAL for a military style rifle. Get a Daewoo gas-piston rifle, my two Daewoos are more accurate at closer range than an Armalite National Match & a Bushy HBAR that I had before. If you get any AR you must get a gas ring conversion like McFarland if your gonna give it rough or extensive use.
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Old 07-26-2009, 10:30 PM
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Default Out of the Box

I would either go with a Colt 6920 or a SW MP15. They are among two of the best.
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Old 07-27-2009, 11:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mingo View Post
If you get any AR you must get a gas ring conversion like McFarland if your gonna give it rough or extensive use.
Wow! That's good info to know right there. I'll go tell my select-fire guns for sure. I wonder how I ever got better than 20K rounds through my favorite 11.5" barrel select-fire beast without those McFarland rings.

Here she is not running worth a darn:



Appreciate the tip.

Mark
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Old 07-27-2009, 11:58 PM
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Default Rings

Not a must for everyone, but some folks are using it.http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2003smallarms/john.ppt#21

Most seem to be shying away from the DI & gas ring system altogether in favor of SCAR & POF type gas piston systems which seems to be a good idea all-in-all, especially for wet & dirty guerilla warfare.

Your Welcome

Mingo
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Old 07-28-2009, 07:16 AM
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Only someone shooting a large volume of fire through a shorter suppressed weapon is going to notice a significant difference between a DI and a piston driven AR. And most people advocating going to pistons have zero first-hand experience with the various systems. I actually have a lot of trigger time on the 416, SCAR-L, LWRC weapons, POF, LMT, etc. Do you? Do you understand the differences in the designs and the pros & cons of each? You seem more like someone who is just repeating things they've read on the internet without having actual first-hand knowledge. Even your justification for needing a replacement single piece gas ring is nothing more than a bullet point in a six year old Powerpoint presentation about some weapons testing with zero detail about the testing results.

I very much understand the reason Pat Rogers calls this great cyber place the "errornet."
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Old 07-28-2009, 11:35 AM
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Default Piston Operation

Mister the last thing I want is to start some internet battle. I don't surf the internet for hours at a time lookin at all that hype. I dont even have a computer or electricity, my friend is nice enough to let me use his computer whenever I need to. The only thing i do is sit in a big dirt spot in my yard & build guns out of parts kit & random khyber pass type weapons. They always work because i choose doggedly tough & durable weapon designs mainly Yugo & Romanian AK parts kits & Yugo barreled SKS recievers & make it work. I had a 11.5" commando AR the other day that i lucked into that jammed constantly & I had to sell it because I couldnt afford ammo to troubleshoot it. Do you kill things with your weapons? Watch the impact of the round, then watch it squirm around, squeal & bleed out? I do. I dont have lots of trigger time on expensive, hi-tech or suppressed weapons but I do have lots of trigger time. I do respect your opinion & its obvious that you know alot about weapons but please don't assume that the rest of us are fools. Thank you sir.

I collect historical books too, I wish that more people would.
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Old 07-28-2009, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
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Mister the last thing I want is to start some internet battle.
I very much agree and that isn't my intent. However, when I see someone posting erroneous information I do make an effort to correct them. People use boards like this one to gain information and it doesn't help if other folks are passing on information about which they really know nothing.

Quote:
I don't surf the internet for hours at a time lookin at all that hype. I dont even have a computer or electricity, my friend is nice enough to let me use his computer whenever I need to. The only thing i do is sit in a big dirt spot in my yard & build guns out of parts kit & random khyber pass type weapons. They always work because i choose doggedly tough & durable weapon designs mainly Yugo & Romanian AK parts kits & Yugo barreled SKS recievers & make it work. I had a 11.5" commando AR the other day that i lucked into that jammed constantly & I had to sell it because I couldnt afford ammo to troubleshoot it.
So, you don't thoroughly research things on the internet yet find meaningless old presentations that offer zero facts to support your insistence that a certain aftermarket part is necessary (a "must") in ARs that will have "rough or extensive use." Interesting.

Your skill for building and knowledge of other weapon platforms isn't being questioned here.

Quote:
Do you kill things with your weapons? Watch the impact of the round, then watch it squirm around, squeal & bleed out? I do. I dont have lots of trigger time on expensive, hi-tech or suppressed weapons but I do have lots of trigger time. I do respect your opinion & its obvious that you know alot about weapons but please don't assume that the rest of us are fools. Thank you sir.
Yes, I kill things with my weapons (in accordance with all game laws of course). What is the relevance of my hunting prowess to the this topic though?

I didn't call anyone a fool nor do I assume you or anyone else is a fool. I am not sure what you mean by "us". The only person I am questioning here is you.

Quote:
I collect historical books too, I wish that more people would.
I agree with you there! I also am an avid reader and collector of books. Hence, my intenet moniker. It is sad how history books have been re-written over the years isn't it?


Look, the bottom line here is that when I saw your first post about the gas rings I rolled my eyes. It just came across to me as someone who doesn't really know anything about the subject matter yet feels some need to interject information that they heard from some other source with little or no first-hand knowledge. It came across to me that way because that statement isn't true. Then in your subsequent post we find out that you really don't know a lot about AR-15 type weapons, don't have a lot of knowledge about them and actually prefer (and are a skilled builder of) AK and SKS type weapons. This really only serves to validate my point and original assumptions.

I see this behavior all the time on the internet and it bugs me. I deal with machine guns and hard use weapons for a living. I work with LE, military and contractors on a daily basis to provide them with gear that they will put through more "rough or extensive use" than you and I will ever see and not one of those weapons I've built or seen deployed used the aftermarket item you mentioned and these weapons all worked just fine.

I also roll my eyes at the guys who post that their low-end, bought at a gun show with no clue who manufactured it bolt is "just as good as" or "the same as" or (even better) "made by the same company as" a high-end manufacturer. Those guys will never understand what it means to shot peen a bolt or what MP testing is and why it might be important to some folks. It isn't worth trying to educate most of those people because the reality is that most guys shoot their weapons very little and the lower end stuff will probably serve them very well. The guys who actually put their guns through real hard use will eventually figure it out. But, every now and again I do see something that rubs me the wrong way and I try to educate people.

I admit I don't always go about it the right way. Late last night when I saw your comment I couldn't help but post something in a "smart behind" kind of way. For that, I apologize. But it really wasn't intended in any way other than a silly way. I wasn't trying to offend you.

So, sorry if you took offense. That wasn't my intent.

Hope you have a good rest of the day. Don't let silly internet disagreements bother you. In the end they aren't worth the effort or trouble.

Take care.

Mark
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Old 07-28-2009, 12:56 PM
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I too am a RRA fan - in my opinion, you can't go wrong with them. That being said, in the old days (5 or 6 years ago) the rule was "stick with ABC's" - Armalite, Bushmaster, Colt. You won't go wrong with those either.
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Old 07-28-2009, 12:59 PM
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Yes sir, thats exactly how i feel. You are correct in that my knowledge of the Stoner type weapons platform is much more limited than that of the Kalashnikov. I thankfully support our soldiers & Marines & know 5 or 6 personally that are in Afghanistan & we speak about their weapons experience whenever we get to talk. As far as history goes I am big into the 1900-1950 period. From the end of the Western age in the US & the nationalist aspirations in Europe that started the Great War. Then from the Japenese expansion beginning in China & spreading down the Malay peninsula to Java & Borneo. I am most interested in the Russo-Japanese conflicts in 1939 in Mongolia & finally 1945 in Manchuria/Manchuko. Talk about some die-hard folks both but the Soviet armor was devastating in 1939 & 1945. Good to talk to you sir & maybe we can meet up sometime, possibly at the August 8th meet as Im plan on attending with my friend Carl. Thanks Jacob Mingo
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Old 08-01-2009, 09:47 PM
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Jacob some day I'm going to have you build me one of those rifles you had when you came to see me. regards Doug
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Old 08-01-2009, 10:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BookHound View Post
I very much agree and that isn't my intent. However, when I see someone posting erroneous information I do make an effort to correct them. People use boards like this one to gain information and it doesn't help if other folks are passing on information about which they really know nothing.



So, you don't thoroughly research things on the internet yet find meaningless old presentations that offer zero facts to support your insistence that a certain aftermarket part is necessary (a "must") in ARs that will have "rough or extensive use." Interesting.

Your skill for building and knowledge of other weapon platforms isn't being questioned here.



Yes, I kill things with my weapons (in accordance with all game laws of course). What is the relevance of my hunting prowess to the this topic though?

I didn't call anyone a fool nor do I assume you or anyone else is a fool. I am not sure what you mean by "us". The only person I am questioning here is you.



I agree with you there! I also am an avid reader and collector of books. Hence, my intenet moniker. It is sad how history books have been re-written over the years isn't it?


Look, the bottom line here is that when I saw your first post about the gas rings I rolled my eyes. It just came across to me as someone who doesn't really know anything about the subject matter yet feels some need to interject information that they heard from some other source with little or no first-hand knowledge. It came across to me that way because that statement isn't true. Then in your subsequent post we find out that you really don't know a lot about AR-15 type weapons, don't have a lot of knowledge about them and actually prefer (and are a skilled builder of) AK and SKS type weapons. This really only serves to validate my point and original assumptions.

I see this behavior all the time on the internet and it bugs me. I deal with machine guns and hard use weapons for a living. I work with LE, military and contractors on a daily basis to provide them with gear that they will put through more "rough or extensive use" than you and I will ever see and not one of those weapons I've built or seen deployed used the aftermarket item you mentioned and these weapons all worked just fine.

I also roll my eyes at the guys who post that their low-end, bought at a gun show with no clue who manufactured it bolt is "just as good as" or "the same as" or (even better) "made by the same company as" a high-end manufacturer. Those guys will never understand what it means to shot peen a bolt or what MP testing is and why it might be important to some folks. It isn't worth trying to educate most of those people because the reality is that most guys shoot their weapons very little and the lower end stuff will probably serve them very well. The guys who actually put their guns through real hard use will eventually figure it out. But, every now and again I do see something that rubs me the wrong way and I try to educate people.

I admit I don't always go about it the right way. Late last night when I saw your comment I couldn't help but post something in a "smart behind" kind of way. For that, I apologize. But it really wasn't intended in any way other than a silly way. I wasn't trying to offend you.

So, sorry if you took offense. That wasn't my intent.

Hope you have a good rest of the day. Don't let silly internet disagreements bother you. In the end they aren't worth the effort or trouble.

Take care.

Mark
Bookhound,

Then look at this as an opportunity to educate sportsmen and women who have limited use with an AR type weapon.

You made the comment that some people say buy "whatever" b/c their parts are all made by 3 or 4 manufacturers. You stated/implied that it is hopeless to try to explain to these individuals why some brands are better than others due to the process of construction of said parts.

I'm one of those people, because isn't it true for most of us i.e. blue collar and white collar workers that most any Bushmaster, Rock River, DPMS, Armalite, and/or Stag will fit our needs just fine? If the truth be known for most of us guys and gals our guns sit in storage more than they are carried and/or shot.

So, I'm not typing these words to be argumentative. I'm typing them in request. Take the time to share your experience and knowledge with the rest of us.

You and Mingo have stated that you both love History books. When I was in school we learned from books and the teachers. In today's time, there is hardly a need for a textbook in the classroom. Ideally, each student would have a laptop and internet access at their desk. There is so much to learn on the internet - good stuff - despite the negatives, the good still outweighs it.

So, just call this place the cyber classroom/training ground, and when it comes to AR's you get to be the professor.

Most of us can't afford to buy 10 or so ARs to test and learn from. So, we have to rely on the experience and knowledge of others like you.

My comments are typed with respect and sincerity.

Have a good one.
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Old 08-01-2009, 11:30 PM
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Lesson One: An un-staked castle nut can be "shot" loose.

That's a fun one.

The frustration is that, when buying a new weapon, the end-user shouldn't have to fix it, just to run properly through rough treatment.

The M4 and M16 are built to a set of standards, different from most of the commercial stuff available. Erroneously, people will go out and buy an AR-15, assuming it's "just like the Army's".

Typically, it's not.

Some of it's majour, some of it's minor. Regardless of what the salesmen at the gun shops say, the AR-15s they're passing across the counter are most likely NOT mil-spec. If I had a penny for everytime I've seen a DPMS cross the counter, only to hear the salesperson say, "It's mil-spec...blah...blah...blah".

No. It's not.

It's really this simple: Not all AR-15s are created equally.

Some use high quality parts. Some do not. Some have extremely rigorous QC/QA programs. Most do not.

It's safe to say that if you stick with a certain family of manufacturers you will be GTG.

A good place to start is Rob Sloyer's "Chart".

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?k...=5&output=html

If you have, like I do, a lower tier AR-15, the corners the factory/manufacturer cut can be overcome through just a little bit of work.

Instead of getting pissy, and lying to myself that "Bushmaster is just as good, gosh-darnit", I cowboy'd up, and started fixing what the factory was too lazy to do.

There's something monunmentally sucky about paying top dollar for a weapon system, only to find out I could have had something better for the same money.

P.S. If anyone wants to trade me a Daniel Defense XV for a Bushmaster Modular Carbine, PM me.

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Old 08-02-2009, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLandlord View Post
Lesson One: An un-staked castle nut can be "shot" loose.

That's a fun one.

The frustration is that, when buying a new weapon, the end-user shouldn't have to fix it, just to run properly through rough treatment.

The M4 and M16 are built to a set of standards, different from most of the commercial stuff available. Erroneously, people will go out and buy an AR-15, assuming it's "just like the Army's".

Typically, it's not.

Some of it's majour, some of it's minor. Regardless of what the salesmen at the gun shops say, the AR-15s they're passing across the counter are most likely NOT mil-spec. If I had a penny for everytime I've seen a DPMS cross the counter, only to hear the salesperson say, "It's mil-spec...blah...blah...blah".

No. It's not.

It's really this simple: Not all AR-15s are created equally.

Some use high quality parts. Some do not. Some have extremely rigorous QC/QA programs. Most do not.

It's safe to say that if you stick with a certain family of manufacturers you will be GTG.

A good place to start is Rob Sloyer's "Chart".

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?k...=5&output=html

If you have, like I do, a lower tier AR-15, the corners the factory/manufacturer cut can be overcome through just a little bit of work.

Instead of getting pissy, and lying to myself that "Bushmaster is just as good, gosh-darnit", I cowboy'd up, and started fixing what the factory was too lazy to do.

There's something monunmentally sucky about paying top dollar for a weapon system, only to find out I could have had something better for the same money.

P.S. If anyone wants to trade me a Daniel Defense XV for a Bushmaster Modular Carbine, PM me.

I saw a post a guy made in uh nevermind...............you gonna have to pony up and trade two Bushmasters or DPMS's to get that DD rifle you want.
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Old 08-02-2009, 02:44 PM
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What's the word on Del-Ton quality??
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Old 08-02-2009, 07:26 PM
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TheLandlord TheLandlord is offline
 
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IIRC, they use a lower-grade of steel for the barrels, don't perform MPI on individual parts (batch only), etc.

I suppose for punching paper, they're fine, but I wouldn't consider a complete Del-Ton combat-ready.
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