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Old 08-15-2009, 11:42 PM
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Default Warning about Trophy Radishes

I stopped in a feed store near Athens today and asked if they had Trophy Radishes. They said no but they would have them next week. I asked where they were getting them from and they said some distributor in Athens or Watkinsville. Come to find out those are not Trophy Radishes but some other variety. Also found out Trophy Radishes is a trademarked name and only one guy has the right to distribute them in the southeast. So, if you buy Trophy Radishes but they are not in a bag with that name on them they are not the same thing. And, the seller is not shooting straight and possibly breaking the law.
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Old 08-16-2009, 07:30 AM
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Coppers Seed has them if you need them.


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Old 08-16-2009, 02:56 PM
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Yep. Those are the real deal.
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Old 08-16-2009, 06:58 PM
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Thanks very much for the heads up. Us hunters need to speak up more often, this will help others from being taken advantage of. Thanks Again
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Old 08-17-2009, 07:30 AM
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They are not calling them trophy radishes. Is what I was told.
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Old 08-17-2009, 07:39 AM
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Who is the one guy that has the right to sell them in the Southeast?
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Old 08-17-2009, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by huntnboy View Post
They are not calling them trophy radishes. Is what I was told.
It's what the dealer I talked to called them. As long as tehy tell you what you're getting is one thing. Calling them something they aren't, or "just like" something they aren't is akin to stealing in my opinion.
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Old 08-17-2009, 08:31 AM
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Who is the one guy that has the right to sell them in the Southeast?
Kent Kammermeyer Consulting, LLC, according to the website, has the right to distribute them. I assume they have authorized dealers because Cooper's has them.
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Old 08-17-2009, 09:24 AM
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i believe the Trophy Radishes are just a way to sell a seed with a deer on the bag thus making the price way more expesive. Forage radishes should do the same thing and are probably the same thing. they are used to airerate the soil and bring nutrients to the surface.
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Old 08-17-2009, 09:39 AM
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Makes you wonder don't it? But, I've researched that some and keep coming back to the same question. If stuff like that is so, how do all these seed companies, like Tecomate and Biologic, stay in business? Must be more to it.
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Old 08-17-2009, 09:51 AM
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because people are willing to pay for a service. also there are many people who at know fault to them dont know a lot of knowledge on plots or growing crops. alot can be learned from the internet.
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Old 08-17-2009, 12:25 PM
Twenty five ought six Twenty five ought six is offline
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Quote:
Makes you wonder don't it? But, I've researched that some and keep coming back to the same question. If stuff like that is so, how do all these seed companies, like Tecomate and Biologic, stay in business? Must be more to it.
Why do people buy hamburger patties, instead of a pack of ground hamburger?

Just picking one product, here's the Biologic description of one of its products, "Outfitters Blend.'

All of these seeds are available at any well supplied seed store, and so anyone who wants to could easily duplicate this blend. The biggest hangup is that it would probably cost you $200 or so to do so, and most people want to spend $10.00 for the 5 lb. bag with the picture of the big buck. Then they can scratch up a little piece of ground, plant a "food plot", and they are a bona fide "trophy hunter."

Quote:
Outfitter’s Blend — created with input
from leading field guides — ensures your food
plots will get the job done. This new fall blend
features a selected mix of New Zealand
Triticale, Austrian winter peas, wheat and oats
for maximum attractiveness and palatability.
It’s formulated to establish quickly, provide
ample nutrition, pull in game and keep them
concentrated
http://www.mossyoakbiologic.com/prod...on=deer_annual

FWIW, an internet search of "trophy radish" or "trophy radishes" only turns up the Kent Kammenmeyer article in GON. I have a lot of respect for Kent, but if we are talking ethics, it's journalistically suspect to print an article as "news" when you have a financial interest in the product.

If you do a search on "Ray Weil", the researcher mentioned by Kammenmeyer, and "radish", you will get a reference to his fact sheet, in which he details his research.http://www.vegetables.cornell.edu/.....n2009_Weil.pdf - He never refers to "Trophy Radish", but to a specific variety of Daikon, or forage, radish,

Quote:
Forage radish (Raphanus sativus var. niger) is a
unique fall/winter cover crop that is relatively new
to the Mid-Atlantic region.
So the fact that someone has slapped a trade name on the variety Raphanus sativus var. niger doesn't mean that they are the only one that can sell that variety, or that anyone else selling the same variety is doing anything unethical or illegal.

Again people who knows how to read agricultural labels will end up saving money, and people who are impressed with glossy pictures will spend more.

If you want to learn more about forage radishes, search for "steve groff radish"

Or go directly to this webpage;
http://www.tillageradish.com/history.php

The truth is that for most specialty seeds like this there are may be only one or two companies producing the seed in the United States.
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Old 08-17-2009, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Twenty five ought six View Post
So the fact that someone has slapped a trade name on the variety Raphanus sativus var. niger doesn't mean that they are the only one that can sell that variety, or that anyone else selling the same variety is doing anything unethical or illegal.
What if they sell a similar variety under the same trademarked name, or even the same variety under the trademarked name? Always been curious about that. Could I legally mix up Biologic's mix and tell folks that it is Biologic or sell it as such? I assume that if I use the same varieties at the same rates it would be both legal and ethical to do that since they obviously aren't the only ones that can sell those varieties. Correct?

There is a website for trophy radishes. Don't remember how I found it, but I believe it is trophyradish.com ??
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Old 08-17-2009, 08:07 PM
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One bad thing is that a dealer told me that it is not the same thing if you buy daikon radish. I ask him why did they call them that in the write up? He didn't say anything!! A bag with a picture helps sell things!
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Old 08-17-2009, 08:46 PM
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I talked to someone who knows about them. Apparantly there are several varieties out there. However, and I got this from a grower, they aren't all the same. Just like all varieties of white clover are not the same. From what I understand these are to other daikons what durana is to other white clovers. And, they are the only ones actually tested on wild deer in two parts of the country. So, I guess just like white clovers, you get what you pay for. Of course, the purpose of this post was to bring up the fact that I could have ended up getting something that wasn't what I was wanting, so just be aware. And, besides, up until this year, who had ever heard of radishes for deer? If they had been tested and proven effective for deer, wouldn't it have been a household word? More to all this I perceive and it sounds like someone is trying to do an end-run around someone else on the shoulders of their hard work. Which, in my mind, is about like stealing.
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Old 08-17-2009, 09:02 PM
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check out www.trophyradishes.com for info
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Old 08-17-2009, 09:28 PM
EastALHunter EastALHunter is offline
 
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Default Know Steve Groff personally.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Twenty five ought six View Post
Why do people buy hamburger patties, instead of a pack of ground hamburger?

Just picking one product, here's the Biologic description of one of its products, "Outfitters Blend.'

All of these seeds are available at any well supplied seed store, and so anyone who wants to could easily duplicate this blend. The biggest hangup is that it would probably cost you $200 or so to do so, and most people want to spend $10.00 for the 5 lb. bag with the picture of the big buck. Then they can scratch up a little piece of ground, plant a "food plot", and they are a bona fide "trophy hunter."



http://www.mossyoakbiologic.com/prod...on=deer_annual

FWIW, an internet search of "trophy radish" or "trophy radishes" only turns up the Kent Kammenmeyer article in GON. I have a lot of respect for Kent, but if we are talking ethics, it's journalistically suspect to print an article as "news" when you have a financial interest in the product.

If you do a search on "Ray Weil", the researcher mentioned by Kammenmeyer, and "radish", you will get a reference to his fact sheet, in which he details his research.http://www.vegetables.cornell.edu/.....n2009_Weil.pdf - He never refers to "Trophy Radish", but to a specific variety of Daikon, or forage, radish,



So the fact that someone has slapped a trade name on the variety Raphanus sativus var. niger doesn't mean that they are the only one that can sell that variety, or that anyone else selling the same variety is doing anything unethical or illegal.

Again people who knows how to read agricultural labels will end up saving money, and people who are impressed with glossy pictures will spend more.

If you want to learn more about forage radishes, search for "steve groff radish"

Or go directly to this webpage;
http://www.tillageradish.com/history.php

The truth is that for most specialty seeds like this there are may be only one or two companies producing the seed in the United States.
and the only person that distributes his radishes in the South is Kent. You pay the same price that you'd pay from any dealer across the country - or give or take a few dollars.

There are lots of varieties of Daikons but none have the large growth genetics of Steve Groff's. Just like there are lots of varieties of forage soybeans but none with the large growth genetics of Brad Doyle's at Eagle Seed. Both of these men have worked long and hard to develop these seed varieties. And both deserve anything monetarily that come their way. Yes, there are companies and seeds out there that re-name things without having a truly superior variety of seed. But don't throw the baby out with the bathwater because a few are not on the up and up.

As far as Kent's ethics - when did it become unethical to write a factual article to communicate and promote a new product? He even used unbiased studies. Kent has done more communication and education for absolutely zero dollars than anybody I know. He's trying to make a living and doing it honestly - that's the American way if I know it.

And this is someone speaking that has wanted to bring Steve Groff's daikon radishes down South for over two years. I appreciate someone like Kent that got it done. Now I can use them myself and get them to my clients. So what if he wanted to use a catchy name - the science and benefits are in the bag. Heck, I'll send you a bag for free just so you can try them.
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Old 08-17-2009, 10:33 PM
Twenty five ought six Twenty five ought six is offline
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Could I legally mix up Biologic's mix and tell folks that it is Biologic or sell it as such? I assume that if I use the same varieties at the same rates it would be both legal and ethical to do that since they obviously aren't the only ones that can sell those varieties. Correct?
You can sell the same mix, you can't call it Biologic. You could do what a lot of store brands do, and "Compares to Biologic." That's why Coca Cola has never patented the formula for Coke. There are a lot of Colas out there.

Quote:
As far as Kent's ethics - when did it become unethical to write a factual article to communicate and promote a new product?
It's generally considered unethical to present information as "news" without disclosing that the author has a conflict of interest in the news being presented, and it's been that way a long time. That the "news" is factual doesn't change the author's self interest in presenting it. It actually was GON's responsibility to disclose Kent's interest, so I'll leave it to those folks to work it out.

If Forrest Wood wrote an article about how Triton boats really were a piece of crap, the subject might be completely factual, but we all recognize that he is not the most detached reporter.

Quote:
and the only person that distributes his radishes in the South is Kent.
According to Steve Groff's website these folks distribute them;

Tucker Farm Center - 251-282-6286
tuckfarm@frontiernet.net
98 Live Oak Ln
Brewton, AL
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Old 08-18-2009, 08:10 AM
EastALHunter EastALHunter is offline
 
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Default Not to split hairs...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Twenty five ought six View Post
You can sell the same mix, you can't call it Biologic. You could do what a lot of store brands do, and "Compares to Biologic." That's why Coca Cola has never patented the formula for Coke. There are a lot of Colas out there.



It's generally considered unethical to present information as "news" without disclosing that the author has a conflict of interest in the news being presented, and it's been that way a long time. That the "news" is factual doesn't change the author's self interest in presenting it. It actually was GON's responsibility to disclose Kent's interest, so I'll leave it to those folks to work it out.

If Forrest Wood wrote an article about how Triton boats really were a piece of crap, the subject might be completely factual, but we all recognize that he is not the most detached reporter.



According to Steve Groff's website these folks distribute them;

Tucker Farm Center - 251-282-6286
tuckfarm@frontiernet.net
98 Live Oak Ln
Brewton, AL
but Tucker Farm Center is a dealer since that information came from the Dealer Locator page. This page is not complete as there are several dealers in GA not even listed. Kent is the only distributor in the South and if not for him they wouldn't be down here this year.

If you want to be critical then I say hold on to the grey ethics "charge".

Now where do you want your free bag sent?
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Old 08-18-2009, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastALHunter View Post
but Tucker Farm Center is a dealer since that information came from the Dealer Locator page. This page is not complete as there are several dealers in GA not even listed. Kent is the only distributor in the South and if not for him they wouldn't be down here this year.

If you want to be critical then I say hold on to the grey ethics "charge".

Now where do you want your free bag sent?
Send that bag to me, and send me a bag of that feed you make as well!
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Old 08-18-2009, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastALHunter View Post
but Tucker Farm Center is a dealer since that information came from the Dealer Locator page. This page is not complete as there are several dealers in GA not even listed. Kent is the only distributor in the South and if not for him they wouldn't be down here this year.

If you want to be critical then I say hold on to the grey ethics "charge".

Now where do you want your free bag sent?

just put it in with my southern sweet spot and i will even let you come hunt it later on to see the results for yourself--how bout that?
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Old 08-18-2009, 01:24 PM
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Our Plot manager has some on the way. We will test them out and report back our results. He got them through Coopers.
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Old 08-18-2009, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by EastALHunter View Post
Now where do you want your free bag sent?
I will take a free bag!!
Or another bag depending on your price..
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Old 08-20-2009, 06:37 PM
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There are some distributors advertising to their dealers that they have trophy redishes. I personally bought some and can tell you that they are not THE TROPHY RADISHES being distributed by Kent kemmemyer.
BEWARE! The radishes Kent are pushing have been tested in the field for whitetail deer and the others HAVE NOT been tested.
Just a bit of Advise, trying to support Kent...
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Old 08-21-2009, 12:59 PM
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Default real deal trophy radish

i posted this on the other thread, i'll write it here again anyway.

you can find Kent Kammenmeyers trophy radish at wammocks. i got mine pretty fast, ordered them online:

http://wammocks.com/product.sc?produ...&categoryId=88
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Old 08-22-2009, 12:21 PM
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I have Kent's TROPHY RADISHES as well. Feel free to contact me about these. PM's Please with a phone number for me to get in contact with you.
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Old 09-02-2009, 12:36 AM
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Default Real Trophy Radeshes

I looked yesterday and Coopers in Auburn GA has them in stock.

Last edited by beaverdam boyz; 09-02-2009 at 12:40 AM. Reason: took price out
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Old 09-02-2009, 10:11 AM
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I got the REAL THING from Don Willis.DBW Outdoors, in Rome Ga.
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Old 11-03-2009, 05:04 PM
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Default Radish

Daikon radish aren't anything new..

I can't believe anyone would pay extra for a seeds name the package that it came in.

I guess a sucker is born everyday.
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Old 11-03-2009, 05:47 PM
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I got buck radishes from the local feed store i believe
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Old 11-03-2009, 09:37 PM
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Buck radishes?
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Old 11-03-2009, 10:50 PM
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Sounds like to me,JHunt has a bigger stake in this than what is bein' disclosed folks...............
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Old 11-04-2009, 07:22 AM
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Whoever heard of radishes for deer before Mr. Kammermeyer's article came along? I just hate intellectual theft. I also hate getting something that ain't what I was told it was. And, apparantly the dealer I first asked about them feels the same way.
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Old 11-04-2009, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Jhunt View Post
Whoever heard of radishes for deer before Mr. Kammermeyer's article came along? I just hate intellectual theft. I also hate getting something that ain't what I was told it was. And, apparantly the dealer I first asked about them feels the same way.
These folks;

http://www.michiganwalleye.com/forum....php?p=2894463 (post #63)

http://agmap.psu.edu/Businesses/4751 (the Groff seeds forage radishes are the same ones being sold under the trade name "Trophy Radish.")

http://www.michiganwalleye.com/forum...=296262&page=2 (post # 24)

http://forums.qdma.com/showthread.php?t=14773 (from March, 2008, with link to seed source(Groff Seeds))

http://www.seedland.com/mm5/merchant...Code=WG-RADISH

Quote:
Sounds like to me,JHunt has a bigger stake in this than what is bein' disclosed folks...............
Yep, apparently disparaging the competition is part of the business plan.

Frankly I'm surprised that Kent Kammermeyer is letting this go on in his name.
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Old 11-04-2009, 11:35 AM
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Kent has been instrumental in my and several land owners efforts to improve habitat for deer, turkeys and wildlife in general. To say in any way he is unethical is a joke. I think instead of any unethical concerns on Kent's part or GON's part we should be thankful to have someone who hasn't sold out that could. He is representing a good product, the only way I know that is because he says so and I believe him. Kent likes TR so much he became the rep. what is the big deal? Do you not think he could sell a supplemental feed and kill it locally in the Southeast. How about a mineral? What about Durana and Patriot. I don't know anyone more supportive than Kent regarding those two clovers and I don't think he had any financial gain with them.. How about selling a fruit tree with his name on it. Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----, I would buy it just to tell him I have it. He did a free presentation at my property 8 months ago to surrounding land owners and would not let us pay him a dime. Who else would do that? I wouldn't. Kent is a great resource for us and everyone interested in wildlife enhancement but better yet he is a great person!
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Old 11-04-2009, 07:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LHCLLLC View Post
Kent has been instrumental in my and several land owners efforts to improve habitat for deer, turkeys and wildlife in general. To say in any way he is unethical is a joke. I think instead of any unethical concerns on Kent's part or GON's part we should be thankful to have someone who hasn't sold out that could. He is representing a good product, the only way I know that is because he says so and I believe him. Kent likes TR so much he became the rep. what is the big deal? Do you not think he could sell a supplemental feed and kill it locally in the Southeast. How about a mineral? What about Durana and Patriot. I don't know anyone more supportive than Kent regarding those two clovers and I don't think he had any financial gain with them.. How about selling a fruit tree with his name on it. Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----, I would buy it just to tell him I have it. He did a free presentation at my property 8 months ago to surrounding land owners and would not let us pay him a dime. Who else would do that? I wouldn't. Kent is a great resource for us and everyone interested in wildlife enhancement but better yet he is a great person!
I don't doubt that one bit.I've never met him,so I don't know.I do note the convenience of Mr Kammermeyer writing a story about radishes in GON a while back and then all of a sudden be in the radish business.As far as this thread goes,I just smell a rat and IMO,JHunt is closely affiliated with this radish business and this whole "I'm just warning my fellow hunters"is a veiled advertisement for Mr Kammermeyer's radish business...........
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Old 11-04-2009, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by LHCLLLC View Post
Kent has been instrumental in my and several land owners efforts to improve habitat for deer, turkeys and wildlife in general. To say in any way he is unethical is a joke. I think instead of any unethical concerns on Kent's part or GON's part we should be thankful to have someone who hasn't sold out that could. He is representing a good product, the only way I know that is because he says so and I believe him. Kent likes TR so much he became the rep. what is the big deal? Do you not think he could sell a supplemental feed and kill it locally in the Southeast. How about a mineral? What about Durana and Patriot. I don't know anyone more supportive than Kent regarding those two clovers and I don't think he had any financial gain with them.. How about selling a fruit tree with his name on it. Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----, I would buy it just to tell him I have it. He did a free presentation at my property 8 months ago to surrounding land owners and would not let us pay him a dime. Who else would do that? I wouldn't. Kent is a great resource for us and everyone interested in wildlife enhancement but better yet he is a great person!
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Originally Posted by General Lee View Post
I don't doubt that one bit.I've never met him,so I don't know.I do note the convenience of Mr Kammermeyer writing a story about radishes in GON a while back and then all of a sudden be in the radish business.As far as this thread goes,I just smell a rat and IMO,JHunt is closely affiliated with this radish business and this whole "I'm just warning my fellow hunters"is a veiled advertisement for Mr Kammermeyer's radish business...........
Mr K has had a few articles in the GON over the yrs. I heard him at least three times give seminars (twice at church sportsman banquets) and he praised a few products, such as the Pennington clovers, that he has no $$$ interest in to my knowledge. He seems like a straight shooter to me.
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  #38  
Old 11-04-2009, 10:42 PM
ejs1980 ejs1980 is offline
 
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Kent should have disclosed the information in his article. Not saying it isn't true info just that he has an incentive to see them sell. Where does the "intellectual theft" come in? I guess you mean people stealing the info he published in a magazine article. I'm sure they spent years of trying different daikon varieties before they selected the best variety of someone elses seeds to put their name on to market. There's tons of things many people haven't heard of planting for deer. Just research agricultural damage by deer and you'll see alot of things you can plant that deer will eat. I'll sell you some trophy buckmpkins that are way better than a normal punpkin. Who plants pumkins for deer. Maybe I can get someone to publish an article on them.

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Originally Posted by Jhunt View Post
Whoever heard of radishes for deer before Mr. Kammermeyer's article came along? I just hate intellectual theft. I also hate getting something that ain't what I was told it was. And, apparantly the dealer I first asked about them feels the same way.
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Old 11-10-2009, 04:14 PM
Delane01 Delane01 is offline
 
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That's what I said months ago. It's all in the art of promotion to the market. With the right pictures and words you can sell anything, " like ice cubes to an Eskimo".
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Old 11-10-2009, 04:19 PM
Delane01 Delane01 is offline
 
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Hey, there's an guy selling iron clay peas in the forum and he has a picture of a big buck. Them peas must be trophy peas. I hope nobody performs "intellectual theft".
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