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Old 05-13-2010, 10:21 AM
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Question Hornady XTP vs Hard Cast Lead Gas Check

Just kicking around some options and want to hear your experience and thoughts.

We (relaoders) use to buy lead bullets for cheap plinking and, for the most part, we still do as bulk lead plinkers tend to be less expensive.

In my thread on Hard Cast Gas Checked lead bullets I noted the higher cost of these over say the famous XTP's from Hornady. That cost, as 25-06 pointed out, is due to the labor involved and that they are not mass produced. So I guess my question I'm asking myself is , does the old adage of 'You get what you pay for ' have merit in this case?

The measurement is in the performance of the two bullets. Does a HCL RNFPGC 158g bullet do any better of a job than a Hornady FP/HP/XTP 158g ?

I think the definitive answer could come from a 'Box O'Truth' type test with identical loads (Powder,bullet weight, primer) being shot into say wet phone books from say 25 yards. Anyone here have the time and resources to perform such a test?

What do think?
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Old 05-13-2010, 11:33 AM
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I'll help you set up your own box 'o truth and watch while you test. Sound good?

I'd like to think that both would do the job well. XTP's are known game stoppers, and can be found rather easily at local shops, unlike the gas checked lead bullets you mentioned.
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Old 05-13-2010, 01:27 PM
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The Hard Cast Lead rounds are unbeatable for penetration.

In most loads they will give 50-100 fps more velocity vs the same charge with a JHP [lead vs copper = less friction in the bore.]

In my .44 mag thay are also the most accurate.

BUT - they will not expand at all. For many hunting situations folks prefer the JHP for its terminal performance with large expansion.

XTPs are a great combination of penetration and expansion - test both and see what shoots best for you. If an exit hole is absolutely mandatory then LBTs should have an edge but XTPs can put almost anything on the ground with a well placed shot.

I have a super load for my 6.5" Blackhawk using 180 gr XTPs, X-ring accurate at 50 Meters with iron sights.
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Old 05-13-2010, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiskey_33 View Post
I'll help you set up your own box 'o truth and watch while you test. Sound good?

I'd like to think that both would do the job well. XTP's are known game stoppers, and can be found rather easily at local shops, unlike the gas checked lead bullets you mentioned.

I may take you up on that offer. Start hording thick phone books and catalogs.

Here's a XTP penetration test for some good reading...
http://www.reloadersnest.com/article..._1_aug3103.asp

And a good Gun-rag review...
http://www.handgunsmag.com/ammunitio...pmarks_200807/
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Old 05-13-2010, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokyMtnSmoke View Post
I may take you up on that offer. Start hording thick phone books and catalogs.
I've got a stack already.
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Old 05-13-2010, 04:54 PM
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I just bought some 255gr. hard cast from cast performance.I plan on trying them out with my super redhawk.I've heard you can't beat them as far as penetration,.44 cal a good size hole anyway without expansion.
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Old 05-13-2010, 05:14 PM
Twenty five ought six Twenty five ought six is offline
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I've shot my own hard cast bullets, and Hornady XTP's. When I say hard cast I was using bona fide linotype.

In my experience the XTP is a much superior bullet for deer hunting. If I wanted maximum penetration for something like a mature hog, I might use hard cast -- I really don't have experience with that-- but for deer hunting I don't think there is any comparison.
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Old 05-13-2010, 08:57 PM
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I believe I would have to give the nod to the XTP. Since you are asking about 158grn I assume you are shooting a .357 mag. A hard cast lead bullet at .357 mag velocities will certainly penetrate a deer but leave a much smaller entry and exit than a 44 or 45. The XTP should penetrate also but will expand and give a better exit wound.
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Old 05-13-2010, 10:37 PM
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I've bought quite a few Hornady XTP's and never seen the information sheet that's generally included in the box.



I know measuring expansion on a .357 158 grain HCLGC and an XTP is going to be subjective due to the differences in the hardness of the two but some real world testing is in order. Unfortunately my schedule will not have an open window until a month or so out.
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Old 05-13-2010, 11:53 PM
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Default XTP vs CHL

IMHO you will be measuring XTP penetraion in inches versus CHL in feet.

Will donate to the cause as this could get seriously interesting!!!!!

Can I bring my 45 Colt with heavy loads to help in the testing?

GAR
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Old 06-24-2010, 10:06 AM
Larry Rooks Larry Rooks is offline
 
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My experience had been with the hard cast bullets, and I use some with no gas check. I have yet to have one not perform and perform great, whether it be on a hog or deer. Cost wise, if you shoot a good bit, set up to cast your own bullets. I use wheel weights GIVEN to me by
tire stores etc, so bullet are dirt cheap by the 1000's. It may cost you a couple of hundred bucks to get started but you will surely make up the cost if you shoot a good bit.
The wheel weights are hard enough without adding anything to them too. Melt em down and pour. I use em in the 44 mag, 41 mag, 45 Colt and 357 mag
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Old 06-24-2010, 03:20 PM
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I agree. XTP's are hard to beat. i Doubt if you'll be disappointed with them. They'll definately penetrate a deer and will create a better wound channel than a cast core bullet.
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Old 06-24-2010, 10:20 PM
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It seems to me, that you are comparing different bullets that would be used for different things. Hardcast gas check bullets serve one purpose....penetration. Hornady XTP bullets are designed to expand rather than achieve max penetration.

So, if you are going into brown bear country or hunting elk the gas check bullets would serve you well as penetration is essential there. For most other uses, the XTP will perform well enough.

I will say that a cast bullet (not necessarily gas check) is very effective on Georgia whitetails as I have seen enough evidence to know this for a fact. You don't have to over push them in something like a .44 or .45lc to accomplish the task, anything over 1000fps with the 240 or 250 swc will do the trick. At less than 15 cents each for a loaded round.....that is a bargain compared to any ammo out there.
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Old 06-25-2010, 10:10 AM
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Larry, I did just that, I ordered a Lee .357 158G and a .44Mag 240G 2 bullet mold and got some wheel weights. BTW those wheel weights are drying up like primers in this area.

I've cast a few hundred of each but have not yet had an opportunity to shoot any of them.

I'm still planning to do some of my own expansion testing at some point.

JWARREN - I understand this comparison is sort of apples and oranges because of hardness and bullet construction, but it is a subject that comes up often and I think it'd be fun and informative project to setup, photograph and document. I do believe that either bullet will get the job done when properly placed in its target but there's just something satisfying running the numbers and seeing the results that you yourself produced. It adds a level of confidence when your gun sights rest on your quarry.
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Old 06-25-2010, 11:30 AM
Larry Rooks Larry Rooks is offline
 
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MSM
Yup, bullet placement is the key with any of them. In the 357 mag, I used the RCBS 180 gr Silh bullet with a gas check. In the 45 Colt I use a 255 gr Keith type SWC that hammers em. In the 44 mag I use an RCBS 275 gr Flat Noes that is awesome, and in the 41 mag I use a 220 gr Keith Type SWC. My favotie is the 45 Colt/255 gr in a Ruger Blackhawk with 4 5/8 inch barrel.

I did a detailed penetration test years ago on rifle bullets.
It was a FUN project too. I used Barnes, Nosler, Speer, Sierra and Hornady bullets. I built a bullet trap 36 inches
long by 10 inches sg and used old wet books, newpapers,
old bones and sticks as a media. You would surprised at what worked and what did not. The best of all was the Barnes X bullet. And they now make em for pistols, but they are expensive
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Old 06-25-2010, 05:08 PM
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I believe in Georgia you are required to use bullets with an expanding tip for hunting large game. hard cast won't do.
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Old 06-25-2010, 06:21 PM
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the actual code for deer and bear reads:
Quote:
DEER & BEAR FIREARMS
• Modern Rifles and Handguns: Centerfire
Only, .22-cal. or larger with expanding
bullets.
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Old 06-25-2010, 11:09 PM
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yawn,da
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