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Old 12-06-2011, 10:15 PM
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Default Interesting Vid - Girl pole axes elk at 688y with a 105g VLD in a .243 Win

No - I am not kidding. The person coaching her is John Burns the owner of GreyBullPrecision rifles. This guy has probably forgot more about shooting at long range than I could ever hope to know. I just thought many of you would be interested to see this video since half of you think a .243 Winchester will bounce of a puny little whitetail deer at 100 yards. This girl just dropped an animal larger than any whitetail deer in it's tracks at nearly 7 football fields away.





I'm not supporting or trashing THIS type of hunting or the skills required to make such a shot but I will say - awesome shot. I posted this simply to show you that with quality equipment and proper shot placement and the knowledge required to connect at that distance can produce spectacular results and that shot placement trumps horsepower every single time.
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Old 12-06-2011, 10:20 PM
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Now that was something!
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Old 12-06-2011, 10:21 PM
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Good shot.
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Old 12-06-2011, 10:21 PM
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daaaaannnnnnnnnggggggggg. Ive been wanting to start reloading for my 243. bought Barnes varmint gernades for coyotes, and thinking about ordering some TTSX's for deer.
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Old 12-06-2011, 10:28 PM
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There's no way, that had to be atleast a 338 edge with 300gr bullet
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Old 12-06-2011, 10:36 PM
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WOW ....Thats like 2/5 of a mile ..

An it folded that elk up like a sack o taters !

Thanks for postin that .......pretty coool ;]
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Old 12-07-2011, 05:37 AM
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That gal knew exactly what to do when she proned out. Excellent shot.

The whole caliber debate is great for chatrooms and gun rags, but completely meaningless
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Old 12-07-2011, 05:55 AM
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what are the terminal numbers on that?
What you recon she was shooting weight wise?



duh....
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Old 12-07-2011, 06:01 AM
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That is quite an impressive shot. Sever the CNS and they drop quick.

I'm not sure I'd agree the caliber debate is meaningless. In a highly vulnerable spot like the CNS it doesn't take much to bring an animal down. In print where every shot's perfect that's one thing. Hit bone on a mature bull with that same set-up in timbered country, that's something else.
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Old 12-07-2011, 06:08 AM
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she has a cross wind as well...
The rem calculator stops at 500y and the two bullets listed have terminal E between 700-745ft/lbs....
688y....

wow

cw
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Old 12-07-2011, 07:02 AM
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It's easily possible if you don't have testosterone and ignorance retarding the rifle's, shooter's and bullet's performance.
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Old 12-07-2011, 07:29 AM
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using: 2960f/s, 105g and coeff of guessing .373, 7mph xwind at 90(her vest flapping) at 30 degrees....

Range Velocity Impact Drop ToF Energy Drift
0 2960 NaN 0 0 2043 0
50 2816 NaN 0.62 0.05 1849 0.46
100 2683 NaN 2.34 0.11 1678 0.92
150 2554 NaN 5.27 0.17 1521 1.71
200 2430 NaN 9.53 0.23 1377 2.85
250 2309 NaN 15.28 0.29 1243 4.35
300 2192 NaN 22.66 0.36 1120 6.26
350 2078 NaN 31.86 0.43 1007 8.59
400 1967 NaN 43.08 0.5 902 11.39
450 1861 NaN 56.54 0.58 808 14.69
500 1758 NaN 72.53 0.66 721 18.54
550 1660 NaN 91.33 0.75 642 22.96
600 1566 NaN 113.29 0.84 572 28
650 1478 NaN 138.79 0.94 509 33.71
700 1396 NaN 168.27 1.05 454 40.11

the round may have had less than 500 f/lbs.
the cross drift of possibly greater than 33ft!
http://www.handloads.com/calc/
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Old 12-07-2011, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Win1917 View Post
That is quite an impressive shot. Sever the CNS and they drop quick.

I'm not sure I'd agree the caliber debate is meaningless. In a highly vulnerable spot like the CNS it doesn't take much to bring an animal down. In print where every shot's perfect that's one thing. Hit bone on a mature bull with that same set-up in timbered country, that's something else.
Nicely put!
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Old 12-07-2011, 08:45 AM
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This was provided on 24H Campfire, where the video now has around 200 responses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MontanaMarine
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcamuglia
At 688 yards, the 105 started at 3100 would be at 1900 fps....

Maybe at sea level.

Not much in WY under 5K ASL.

Code:
Tabular trajectory data at Non-Std. Atmosphere
 Gunsite altitude : 5000 ft.
 Air density      : 0.065706 lb./ft³
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Gun / Ammunition : 243 Win
 Bullet           : .243, 105, Berger VLD
 Bullet weight    : 105 grains or 6.80 Grams
 Muzzle velocity  : 3100 fps
 Crosswind speed  : 10 Mph 
 Ballistic Coefficient(s) (G1): 
 C1=0.532@V>0 fps;


 Range  Velo Time of  Energy   Path    Deflection    Total  Sight correction  Target
        city  flight            to    at crosswind    drop   for setting new   lead
                                LOS    of 10.0 Mph             zero range     20 fps
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
·Yards   fps     s    ft.lbs.   in.    in.     MOA     in.   Clicks     MOA     yds ·
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|    0  3100  0.0000   2240    -2.0    0.0   -----     0.0   ------    -----    0.00
X  100  2943  0.0992   2019     0.0    0.4    0.40     1.9      0.0     0.00    0.66
|  200  2791  0.2037   1816    -2.0    1.8    0.86     7.7     +2.8    +0.97    1.36
|  300  2645  0.3147   1631    -8.6    4.3    1.37    18.1     +8.0    +2.74    2.10
|  400  2503  0.4314   1461   -20.1    7.8    1.86    33.5    +14.0    +4.81    2.88
|  500  2366  0.5537   1305   -36.9   12.3    2.35    54.2    +20.5    +7.07    3.69
|  600  2233  0.6845   1163   -60.2   18.3    2.91    81.3    +27.9    +9.59    4.56
|  688  2120  0.8064   1048   -86.5   24.7    3.43   111.0    +34.9   +12.02    5.38
These two charts are a great example of how much difference there is in a good ballistic coefficient and an average bc once you exceed 300 yards.


Quote:
Originally Posted by seaweaver View Post
using: 2960f/s, 105g and coeff of guessing .373, 7mph xwind at 90(her vest flapping) at 30 degrees....

Range Velocity Impact Drop ToF Energy Drift
0 2960 NaN 0 0 2043 0
50 2816 NaN 0.62 0.05 1849 0.46
100 2683 NaN 2.34 0.11 1678 0.92
150 2554 NaN 5.27 0.17 1521 1.71
200 2430 NaN 9.53 0.23 1377 2.85
250 2309 NaN 15.28 0.29 1243 4.35
300 2192 NaN 22.66 0.36 1120 6.26
350 2078 NaN 31.86 0.43 1007 8.59
400 1967 NaN 43.08 0.5 902 11.39
450 1861 NaN 56.54 0.58 808 14.69
500 1758 NaN 72.53 0.66 721 18.54
550 1660 NaN 91.33 0.75 642 22.96
600 1566 NaN 113.29 0.84 572 28
650 1478 NaN 138.79 0.94 509 33.71
700 1396 NaN 168.27 1.05 454 40.11

the round may have had less than 500 f/lbs.
the cross drift of possibly greater than 33ft!
http://www.handloads.com/calc/
Quote:
Originally Posted by Win1917 View Post
That is quite an impressive shot. Sever the CNS and they drop quick.

I'm not sure I'd agree the caliber debate is meaningless. In a highly vulnerable spot like the CNS it doesn't take much to bring an animal down. In print where every shot's perfect that's one thing. Hit bone on a mature bull with that same set-up in timbered country, that's something else.
Burns said the impact was high shoulder on 24H campfire, so I'd say it did hit bone. He also said he had another client that took her mature bull elk at 760 with a 105 Berger straight through the shoulder but he felt it was " getting out to edge of my comfort level with the combo."
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Old 12-07-2011, 08:54 AM
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Watch very carefully just at the top of the "www." part of the web address on the screen at the 49 second mark. . I swear you can see the bullet trail and path....
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Old 12-07-2011, 09:06 AM
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Its very common to see that. It's fun shooting at that range and seeing the bullets path in a spotting scope or the scope itself with a low recoil rifle.
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Old 12-07-2011, 09:14 AM
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She is tickled pink and rightly so. Thanks for sharing.
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Old 12-07-2011, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurkeyManiac View Post
Watch very carefully just at the top of the "www." part of the web address on the screen at the 49 second mark. . I swear you can see the bullet trail and path....


That is cool.
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Old 12-07-2011, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NOYDB View Post
It's easily possible if you don't have testosterone and ignorance retarding the rifle's, shooter's and bullet's performance.
Amazing how often those two go hand in hand.
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Old 12-07-2011, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Burns said the impact was high shoulder on 24H campfire, so I'd say it did hit bone. He also said he had another client that took her mature bull elk at 760 with a 105 Berger straight through the shoulder but he felt it was " getting out to edge of my comfort level with the combo."
Fair enough. If heavy bone is that easy to break I guess that ends the debate about needing Barnes to break stuff on big animals with light bullets...sorry I couldn't resist
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Old 12-07-2011, 10:21 AM
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That bullets coef. is .532?
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Old 12-07-2011, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurkeyManiac View Post
Watch very carefully just at the top of the "www." part of the web address on the screen at the 49 second mark. . I swear you can see the bullet trail and path....
You can. When you spot for someone on long range shots you can watch the bullet path to target. Cool stuff.
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Old 12-07-2011, 10:50 AM
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http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/69095-1.html

.486...

.532 does bring it to the posted ft/lbs...but the sales ad at CTD put it under 1k.
and then a second girl does it a 760y....." getting out to edge of my comfort level with the combo."

I think I would have been getting out mine before 688!
Would I take a shot at the same animal at 190y w/ a 3030?
I don't think so. I was trying to rationalize such a long shot w/ what the bullet has to deliver by the end of the trip and compare it to something that gets dredged around...
From what I see this is comparable...but w/ a bigger animal than the white tail that is often purportedly impervious....to a 3030 at 100y much less than longer than that! (170g @200 is 980)

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Old 12-07-2011, 11:09 AM
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Seaweaver,

I used Shane (MontanaMarine) numbers but verified it off Berger's page. http://www.bergerbullets.com/Product...20Bullets.html

The BC for the 105 VLD is .532
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Old 12-07-2011, 11:12 AM
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that thing is more slippery than a suppository!
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Old 12-07-2011, 11:22 AM
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Now thats a shot
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Old 12-07-2011, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawg2 View Post
You can. When you spot for someone on long range shots you can watch the bullet path to target. Cool stuff.
Yep. And when I'm spotting I dial the focus back to about 10 yards in front of the target. You'll pick up the trace a little easier that way. A buddy turned me on to that trick a few years ago and when I tried it I was surprised how much easier it was to see that trace right before impact.


Great shot that young lady put on that elk. I bet she is still smiling from ear to ear.

Mark
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Old 12-07-2011, 12:32 PM
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Possible...yes.

Ethical shot...IMHO, no.:santa:
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Old 12-07-2011, 01:48 PM
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Let me leave this to you to ponder. What is less ethical, taking shots at extremely long range when you have the expertise and skills to do so or hunting at Georgia woods ranges with rifle you have practiced little to none with? It amazes me how many hunters over the years I've crossed paths with that have someone else shoot their gun for them and have never even fired it. I've seen quite a few others that bought a rifle and had it bore sighted and thought they were good to go. How many threads have we seen on this board and others over the years that go something like this, "guys where do I need to shoot at 25y to be dead on at 200y." How many deer do you figure are wounded / lost by hunters who the farthest their rifle has been shot is 25y?

Any trip to a public range a couple of weeks before deer season will produce some great memories. Guys shooting off coats or offhand then making scoped adjustments and flinging more lead. Half of these jokers high five each other if they can hit a pie plate 3 of 5 times at 50 yards. I watched a guy sight in a customized SKS (isn't that an oxymoron) with some kind of junk mount and a cheap scope. The mount was so flimsy it wasn't even completely tightened. He literally couldn't even keep all his shots on a 100y rifle sight in target at 50 yards (as in some weren't even hitting paper) and he said it wasn't as good as he'd hoped but it would have to do because he was going hunting this afternoon. I tried to get him to remove the junk scope and mounts and try the irons but he'd have no part of it and didn't understand why I was shaking my head at his results.

I can't vouch for Burns personally but his reputation is that he's an excellent long range shooter and I'd be in way over my head to argue shooting ethics with someone that is a way better shot than I'll ever be. He's taken many head of game way past 700 yards and seems to be able to back up any of the claims he's made.

However, I should have stuck to my first post and said I wasn't going to argue the pros and cons of long range hunting - this vid was just to show that shot placement and the knowledge of your firearm trumps horsepower every time.
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Old 12-07-2011, 01:51 PM
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Buzz, I agree with you about guys not shooting their rifles and being happy if they hit a pie plate at 50 yards.

However, and this is only my opinion, I don't think it is ethical to take such extreme shots where the margin of error is sooooo small. Why not get closer to the game than 700 yards and then use your skill to place a good shot?

As for using a spotter to "walk" shots. I just can't condone that in a case where you are shooting at game as extreme distances. I believe "hunters" should take better shots.
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Old 12-07-2011, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawg2 View Post
You can. When you spot for someone on long range shots you can watch the bullet path to target. Cool stuff.
On Saturday I actually, for the first time, saw my own trace through the rifle scope. I've seen it plenty of times spotting for other people, but you have to be lined up directly in line with and behind the bore and, like Bookhound said, focus a few yards in front of the target. But....you don't see the whole bullet path, or at least I never have except for tracers. You see the trail for the portion of the path that is in fucus...between the near focal point and the far focal point. Saturday was the first time I've seen my own, though....I finally got the recoil down on my .308 enough that I don't lose my sight picture when I fire. I can see my own bullet strikes nearly every time at anything past 200 yards. It's way cool to fire....see the bullet hit the steel and watch it rock or swing or whatever it does....then a second later, hear "TING".
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Old 12-07-2011, 06:25 PM
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john barness has a very good article on the ethics of long range "hunting" in this month's Sucessful Hunter mag. the ethics is not about how good a shot can be placed, it's about the "hunting" aspect of killing an animal from that far... for me it's not hunting, it's simply shooting an animal that has no chance to use his natural instincts for protection.. absolutely no adventure or fun for me. migth as well be shooting at a target...fair chase. I think not JMHO
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Old 12-07-2011, 08:03 PM
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That was a heckuva fine shot
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Old 12-07-2011, 11:27 PM
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Here is a comparison of a .243 with a 80 gr. bullet and my 6mm Norma BR. with a Berger 105 gr. VLD loaded to 2,950 fps.

joseph

PS: I never thought that I should go past 600 yds. with the 6mm Norma BR., but I guess I could stretch it a little if the opportunity presented itself.
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Old 12-08-2011, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jglenn View Post
john barness has a very good article on the ethics of long range "hunting" in this month's Sucessful Hunter mag. the ethics is not about how good a shot can be placed, it's about the "hunting" aspect of killing an animal from that far... for me it's not hunting, it's simply shooting an animal that has no chance to use his natural instincts for protection.. absolutely no adventure or fun for me. migth as well be shooting at a target...fair chase. I think not JMHO
I suppose it is a matter of perspective. Some people consider sitting in a tree over a field that for most of a year and until a couple weeks previous was baited with food more ambushing than hunting.

I try not to judge other hunters with the exception of the people who refuse to take the time to become proficient with whatever hunting implements they plan to use and people who blatantly violate the law. The girl in this video obviously had the skill and right equipment to make an ethical shot, so I won't fault her for the shot distance. Plus, it is kinda hard to argue with her results.

People can argue and debate hunting ethics all day long but it rarely changes minds. However, I will offer one observation. Often the people who find fault with longer distance shots are not confident in their own abilities to perform at that level. Since they can't do it they have a hard time accepting the fact that others can. (To be clear I am NOT stating that about anyone in this thread or on this board; I am merely making a generic observation based on my own years of experience hunting and shooting). Perhaps some of those people should sign up for one of Shep's (cmshoot) classes.

I will close with this... Hunting ethics is about minimizing suffering of the animal. Anyone who has hunted long enough has shot an animal and watched that animal run away to die or flop around on the ground for a few minutes before expiring. If you think that animal didn't suffer, you are mistaken. Does that make you an unethical hunter? (That is rhetorical. Just ponder it. )

Merry Christmas to all of you. I hope you have a safe and happy holiday season. Happy hunting too!

Mark
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Old 12-08-2011, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BookHound View Post
However, I will offer one observation. Often the people who find fault with longer distance shots are not confident in their own abilities to perform at that level. Since they can't do it they have a hard time accepting the fact that others can. (To be clear I am NOT stating that about anyone in this thread or on this board; I am merely making a generic observation based on my own years of experience hunting and shooting). Perhaps some of those people should sign up for one of Shep's (cmshoot) classes.
Agreed. This is an observation that I have made several times in the past.....with longer shots and head/neck shots. Everyone should set their own personal limits according to their own personal capabilities and not worry so much about what everyone else is doing.
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Old 12-08-2011, 08:47 AM
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Am I the only one who keeps seeing this:


and thinking ...dancing?
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Old 12-08-2011, 10:30 AM
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Agreed that hunting ethics is a personal perspective.
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Old 12-08-2011, 11:28 AM
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It's way cool to fire....see the bullet hit the steel and watch it rock or swing or whatever it does....then a second later, hear "TING".
aint it:trampoline:
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Old 12-08-2011, 11:33 AM
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aint it:trampoline:
I told you that you wouldn't be able to wipe the grin off your face for a week, didn't I? Just wait until we get out to 1k and beyond.
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Old 12-08-2011, 11:35 AM
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Am I the only one who keeps seeing this:


and thinking ...dancing?
Jeez, Josh! Didja hafta take a screen shot when my name was up there?

Now Nick is going to be looking at me crosswise.....
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Old 12-08-2011, 02:30 PM
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However, I should have stuck to my first post and said I wasn't going to argue the pros and cons of long range hunting
Ohhh I'll let you off the hook as I was creepin up on it and then LP cut to the quick

cw
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Old 12-08-2011, 06:48 PM
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wow thats impressive!!!
love how we can see the air move with the round!!
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Old 12-08-2011, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BookHound View Post
Yep. And when I'm spotting I dial the focus back to about 10 yards in front of the target. You'll pick up the trace a little easier that way. A buddy turned me on to that trick a few years ago and when I tried it I was surprised how much easier it was to see that trace right before impact.


Great shot that young lady put on that elk. I bet she is still smiling from ear to ear.

Mark
Makes sense, but never tried that. I think I will try that next time
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Old 12-08-2011, 07:06 PM
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Am I the only one who keeps seeing this:


and thinking ...dancing?
Only when germag's name is on there
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Old 12-08-2011, 07:15 PM
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There goes my perfect record.
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Old 12-08-2011, 08:39 PM
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Simply AMAZING shot.

To your point of accuracy is more effective than knockdown power. When most people are making their case for larger rounds, (for the most part) they can't afford a custom precision rifle like one displayed in this example. But I sure wish I had one....that was definitely a beautiful shot.
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Old 05-28-2013, 08:36 AM
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Decided to bump this since the inevitable ".243 is only fit for varmints" threads will be starting soon now that hunting season is drawing closer.
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Old 05-28-2013, 06:33 PM
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Decided to bump this since the inevitable ".243 is only fit for varmints" threads will be starting soon now that hunting season is drawing closer.
I dont know that I would let a varmint suffer the agony of a slow death by 243. LOL! That a crazy long kill shot for regular folks.
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Old 05-28-2013, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by treemanjohn View Post
That gal knew exactly what to do when she proned out. Excellent shot.

The whole caliber debate is great for chatrooms and gun rags, but completely meaningless
Pretty much so.
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