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Old 03-05-2012, 09:53 AM
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Default Biblical errors....

Since there has been so much talk of this topic lately, thought I'd share these articles.

http://www.gospelcentereddiscipleshi...le-has-errors/

http://austincitylife.org/sites/defa...nt__sermon.pdf
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Old 03-05-2012, 11:23 AM
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Thank you for the post.


.
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Old 03-05-2012, 11:30 AM
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Good info.
Not one thousand, but 1000 X...
Quote:
"There are 1000 times more manuscripts of the Bible than the most documented Greco-Roman historian by Suetonius."
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Old 03-05-2012, 11:42 AM
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Great post, thanks JM.
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Old 03-05-2012, 02:31 PM
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As soon as I read in the article that a first century copy of Mark has been found I knew the rest was suspect also. Great post indeed.
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Old 03-05-2012, 03:19 PM
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As soon as I read in the article that a first century copy of Mark has been found I knew the rest was suspect also. Great post indeed.
Why do you find that suspect?
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Old 03-05-2012, 04:22 PM
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You guys know me when it comes to this topic, but I can say that I don't disagree with anything said in the first link. The second link, I disagree with some things. So, I'm thinking that we are getting much closer on this issue. I like Wallace, he takes some hard stands against his own. That takes guts. But I do find it incomplete in regards to what he seems to be calling copy mistakes. Many, are not copy mistakes but oral transmission issues. Such as the question of "which came first? the quail or the manna? Copy mistakes show themselves usually in a word or two. Context mistakes come from the accuracy being lost through the verbal passing of one to another. Such as is the case with the quail. But regardless of which it is, the bible is reliable in regards to the intended context
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Old 03-05-2012, 04:37 PM
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The King James Bible has no errors and is perfect in every way.
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Old 03-05-2012, 04:54 PM
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The King James Bible has no errors and is perfect in every way.
Well I'll be....
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Old 03-05-2012, 05:27 PM
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The King James Bible has no errors and is perfect in every way.
Which one?

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Old 03-05-2012, 06:33 PM
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What I love about this forum is how we can argue about anything :-)
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Old 03-05-2012, 07:27 PM
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The King James Bible has no errors and is perfect in every way.
From Cover to Cover and It's my Final Authority in all matters of faith and practice.

And from whom ever ask which one ..... the one printed in the basement of First Baptist Church in Milford Ohio and because it has no Copyright , the money that I payed for it does't go to unsaved men making money off the Word of God. Instead the money goes to missions that save souls.
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Old 03-05-2012, 07:55 PM
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What I love about this forum is how we can argue about anything :-)
Isn't it great?
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Old 03-05-2012, 07:56 PM
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From Cover to Cover and It's my Final Authority in all matters of faith and practice.

And from whom ever ask which one ..... the one printed in the basement of First Baptist Church in Milford Ohio and because it has no Copyright , the money that I payed for it does't go to unsaved men making money off the Word of God. Instead the money goes to missions that save souls.
So...like my question to Woodsman...which version?
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Old 03-05-2012, 08:13 PM
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So...like my question to Woodsman...which version?
I answered it for you in my first post .... but I will being willing to go down that road, if we can have honest debate and you are willing to put as much time into the issue as I have.(Trust me I was you times ten before I made the decision to pray and really find the answer myself ) I have 7 books on the issue I will send you if you will pray every night after you read them for God to show you wisdom. But you can't just repeat what you've heard if you have not spent the time looking for truth.

So my answer stands ..... my question to you is "What is your Final Authority in all matters of faith and practice that you can put your hands on and read?
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Old 03-05-2012, 08:52 PM
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..... my question to you is "What is your Final Authority in all matters of faith and practice that you can put your hands on and read?
I think virtually everyone who frequents this forum would say "the Bible". I certainly would.
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Old 03-05-2012, 08:56 PM
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Isn't this thread tip toeing around a banned subject? In that spirit, I will try also........ I think, if a man finds Jesus reading "Billy Bob's Spirit Guide for Troubled Eskimos" it is no different than finding Jesus anywhere else. I mean, he still finds Jesus right?
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Old 03-05-2012, 09:15 PM
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I think virtually everyone who frequents this forum would say "the Bible". I certainly would.
Which One ?
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Old 03-05-2012, 09:27 PM
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I think, if a man finds Jesus reading "Billy Bob's Spirit Guide for Troubled Eskimos" ...
That's a GREAT book. Put it on your "to read" list.
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Old 03-05-2012, 09:28 PM
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Isn't this thread tip toeing around a banned subject? In that spirit, I will try also........ I think, if a man finds Jesus reading "Billy Bob's Spirit Guide for Troubled Eskimos" it is no different than finding Jesus anywhere else. I mean, he still finds Jesus right?
Yep .... I was in Gas Station yesterday and someone had written John 3:16 on the wall with stuff not so scriptural ( funny everyone all ways quote's the KJV) So can I bathroom wall have scripture YES !!! But the question I ask is what is your Final Authority in all matters of faith and practice you can put your hands on and read? This question baffles everyone that doesn't have one.
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Old 03-05-2012, 09:28 PM
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Isn't this thread tip toeing around a banned subject?
Oh, yeah!
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Old 03-05-2012, 09:46 PM
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To the new guys, please read this thread concerning the subject of which version is God breathed:

http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=641610

I would advise not to tip toe around the issue. Like it or not!
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Old 03-05-2012, 09:52 PM
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That's a GREAT book. Put it on your "to read" list.
I would, but you guys really gave me a long enough list, still working on the first order....some of your suggestions are in line for the next round, 'Ol Billy Bob will have to wait a bit.
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Old 03-05-2012, 09:59 PM
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You guys know me when it comes to this topic, but I can say that I don't disagree with anything said in the first link. The second link, I disagree with some things. So, I'm thinking that we are getting much closer on this issue. I like Wallace, he takes some hard stands against his own. That takes guts. But I do find it incomplete in regards to what he seems to be calling copy mistakes. Many, are not copy mistakes but oral transmission issues. Such as the question of "which came first? the quail or the manna? Copy mistakes show themselves usually in a word or two. Context mistakes come from the accuracy being lost through the verbal passing of one to another. Such as is the case with the quail. But regardless of which it is, the bible is reliable in regards to the intended context
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Old 03-05-2012, 11:09 PM
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What I love about this forum is how we can argue about anything :-)
I had an appointment at an Argument Clinic this morning. I made my appointment on time and said "I'm here for my argument." The receptionist said "no you're not." I said yes I am, I have an appointment. She said "no you don't."
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Old 03-06-2012, 05:35 AM
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Isn't this thread tip toeing around a banned subject? In that spirit, I will try also........ I think, if a man finds Jesus reading "Billy Bob's Spirit Guide for Troubled Eskimos" it is no different than finding Jesus anywhere else. I mean, he still finds Jesus right?
I agree and disagree with this. Yes a man can find Jesus anywhere, but I don't believe a man can come to KNOW Jesus without KNOWING what the bible says about Him.

Of course, I believe that the bible is the revealed word about the WORD.
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Old 03-06-2012, 05:38 AM
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To the new guys, please read this thread concerning the subject of which version is God breathed:

http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=641610

I would advise not to tip toe around the issue. Like it or not!
X2

We don't need to discuss the issue of which version is better any further.
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Old 03-06-2012, 07:24 AM
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I agree and disagree with this. Yes a man can find Jesus anywhere, but I don't believe a man can come to KNOW Jesus without KNOWING what the bible says about Him.
When you say "KNOW," are you referencing a deeper understanding, or a redemptive belief?

The reason I asked the original question is that there seems to be a lot of hang-ups relevant to what version we read, how we read it, what we see when we read it. When I was a kid I had to pass out little pamphlets about salvation as part of the youth group I was in. Not sure what the effect was, but it seemed the author of the literature did not believe the revealed word was a necessary tool in the salvation process. It was the message within.
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Old 03-06-2012, 08:10 AM
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So my answer stands ..... my question to you is "What is your Final Authority in all matters of faith and practice that you can put your hands on and read?
El Biblioteca

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Originally Posted by BrowningFan View Post
Which One ?
The one that goes from Genesis through Revelation.
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Old 03-06-2012, 08:33 AM
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When you say "KNOW," are you referencing a deeper understanding, or a redemptive belief?

The reason I asked the original question is that there seems to be a lot of hang-ups relevant to what version we read, how we read it, what we see when we read it. When I was a kid I had to pass out little pamphlets about salvation as part of the youth group I was in. Not sure what the effect was, but it seemed the author of the literature did not believe the revealed word was a necessary tool in the salvation process. It was the message within.

Deeper understanding is mostly what I am referring to......but really the answer is both for me...as I am not sure how one could come to Know Christ without scripture for scripture is the revealing of Christ.

By that I do not mean everyone comes to Christ while holding a bible in their hand, but that the Christ you and I proclaim we proclaim based on what we know of Him from the bible.
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Old 03-06-2012, 08:45 AM
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By that I do not mean everyone comes to Christ while holding a bible in their hand, but that the Christ you and I proclaim we proclaim based on what we know of Him from the bible.
I agree with that. I guess what I am saying is that I believe the Bible is the messenger of the gospel, not the source of the gospel, if that makes sense. Jesus is the source. I do not view the Bible as part of the trinity, but a revelation of God. For these reasons I don't get too caught up in the errors and translations debate. I want to know what it is trying to tell me about the source.
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Old 03-06-2012, 09:04 AM
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I answered it for you in my first post .... but I will being willing to go down that road, if we can have honest debate and you are willing to put as much time into the issue as I have.(Trust me I was you times ten before I made the decision to pray and really find the answer myself ) I have 7 books on the issue I will send you if you will pray every night after you read them for God to show you wisdom. But you can't just repeat what you've heard if you have not spent the time looking for truth.
No thanks. I've studied the issue...read several books on how we got what we have. Sure, there's more I could learn on the subject, but I don't think it would be a wise use of my time.

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So my answer stands ..... my question to you is "What is your Final Authority in all matters of faith and practice that you can put your hands on and read?
Quote:
Originally Posted by centerpin fan View Post
I think virtually everyone who frequents this forum would say "the Bible". I certainly would.
X2


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Originally Posted by BrowningFan View Post
Which One ?
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Originally Posted by stringmusic View Post
The one that goes from Genesis through Revelation.
I'll further clarify...the one with 66 books.
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Old 03-06-2012, 09:08 AM
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Deeper understanding is mostly what I am referring to......but really the answer is both for me...as I am not sure how one could come to Know Christ without scripture for scripture is the revealing of Christ.

By that I do not mean everyone comes to Christ while holding a bible in their hand, but that the Christ you and I proclaim we proclaim based on what we know of Him from the bible.
I think I can agree with that. I'm not sure though. I think that based on scripture in Acts and elsewhere, God's Word and His message is laid upon our hearts. We see it through creation, we see it throughout our lives. I think that like the Ethiopian Eunich, God will provide a way for someone to hear the gospel with or without the Bible. I guess the Eunich did have a portion read to him....

All that to say...if the Lord has chosen someone out of the rainforest to be saved, He will provide a way for them to hear His message.
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Old 03-06-2012, 09:43 AM
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Old 03-06-2012, 10:05 AM
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I think I can agree with that. I'm not sure though. I think that based on scripture in Acts and elsewhere, God's Word and His message is laid upon our hearts. We see it through creation, we see it throughout our lives. I think that like the Ethiopian Eunich, God will provide a way for someone to hear the gospel with or without the Bible. I guess the Eunich did have a portion read to him....

All that to say...if the Lord has chosen someone out of the rainforest to be saved, He will provide a way for them to hear His message.
I don't disagree with this either. I just try to be very careful that the Jesus I personally proclaim is the Jesus presented to me in God's word. That's the only Jesus I know and the scripture is how God revealed Him to me.

I am always fearful that if we don't know the Jesus of the bible we will just make one up, and that is dangerous.
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Old 03-06-2012, 10:14 AM
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I don't disagree with this either. I just try to be very careful that the Jesus I personally proclaim is the Jesus presented to me in God's word. That's the only Jesus I know and the scripture is how God revealed Him to me.

I am always fearful that if we don't know the Jesus of the bible we will just make one up, and that is dangerous.
Very true....very true. And the made up gospel that goes with the made up Jesus.
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Old 03-07-2012, 07:26 AM
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"What is your Final Authority in all matters of faith and practice that you can put your hands on and read?
Ok, I know I’m being argumentative.
Since this was posted it has bothered me. When we qualify our “Final Authority” to the extent that it must be such that we can put our hand on it and read it, do we not bring into the picture the same “error” factor that is the basis of this thread; that being the fallibility of man. Granted, our life in the flesh seems to require such sensual input, but are we not in a better place, given that “God is spirit”, if we include the spirit in our claim of “Final Authority”, i.e. Scripture and Spirit.

Does not the varied life experiences that we bring into our corporate life as believers, and the differences in interpretation that result, require a Spiritual factor to bring about the result which Scripture instructs.
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Old 03-07-2012, 08:07 AM
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Ok, I know I’m being argumentative.
Since this was posted it has bothered me. When we qualify our “Final Authority” to the extent that it must be such that we can put our hand on it and read it, do we not bring into the picture the same “error” factor that is the basis of this thread; that being the fallibility of man. Granted, our life in the flesh seems to require such sensual input, but are we not in a better place, given that “God is spirit”, if we include the spirit in our claim of “Final Authority”, i.e. Scripture and Spirit.

Does not the varied life experiences that we bring into our corporate life as believers, and the differences in interpretation that result, require a Spiritual factor to bring about the result which Scripture instructs.
GREAT point.

He might say that the Spirit only works in one reading the KJV though.
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Old 03-07-2012, 08:37 AM
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Ok, I know I’m being argumentative.
Since this was posted it has bothered me. When we qualify our “Final Authority” to the extent that it must be such that we can put our hand on it and read it, do we not bring into the picture the same “error” factor that is the basis of this thread; that being the fallibility of man. Granted, our life in the flesh seems to require such sensual input, but are we not in a better place, given that “God is spirit”, if we include the spirit in our claim of “Final Authority”, i.e. Scripture and Spirit.

Does not the varied life experiences that we bring into our corporate life as believers, and the differences in interpretation that result, require a Spiritual factor to bring about the result which Scripture instructs.
Indeed, sir. Thanks for posting that. I was thinking it, but I never posted it. Scripture points us to this truth. We learn this by the recorded Word of God, that the Spirit of God that dwells in us gives life to the Truth contained in the written word and brings us to a full life in Christ. Here are just some I thought of but there are many more. The scriptures are so wonderful but without the Holy Spirit bringing them alive in us, how can we truly understand our Lord!

John 6:63
It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life

John 14:26
But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.

John 15:26
But when the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me.

John 16:12-14
12 I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. 14 He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you.

Romans 8:14
For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.

1 Corinthians 2:9-11
9 But, as it is written,
“What no eye has seen, nor ear heard,
nor the heart of man imagined,
what God has prepared for those who love him”—
10 these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God. 11 For who knows a person's thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.12 Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God.

Ephesians 1:16-18
16 I do not cease to give thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers, 17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of him, 18 having the eyes of your hearts enlightened, that you may know what is the hope to which he has called you, what are the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

1 John 5
6 This is he who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not by the water only but by the water and the blood. And the Spirit is the one who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. 7 For there are three that testify: 8 the Spirit and the water and the blood; and these three agree.
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Old 03-07-2012, 08:41 AM
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Ok, I know I’m being argumentative.
Since this was posted it has bothered me. When we qualify our “Final Authority” to the extent that it must be such that we can put our hand on it and read it, do we not bring into the picture the same “error” factor that is the basis of this thread; that being the fallibility of man. Granted, our life in the flesh seems to require such sensual input, but are we not in a better place, given that “God is spirit”, if we include the spirit in our claim of “Final Authority”, i.e. Scripture and Spirit.

Does not the varied life experiences that we bring into our corporate life as believers, and the differences in interpretation that result, require a Spiritual factor to bring about the result which Scripture instructs.
I know many believers don't put as much clout on the Bible as I may. I know believers are saved and going to heaven that don't even open their Bible. I believe God wrote a book, many may think that is extreme. In my mind God speaks to you through his WORD. Christ was called the WORD. So I put a lot of clout on his word. I believe my Final Authority is the WORD of God. So I don't care what Bible (NIV ASA NASAV ect)someone uses just as long as they have ONE that is their Fianl Authority . If you use all the versions plus the greek text and keep some verses you like and through out other because that Bible doesn't agree with you , then YOU become the Final Authority. So I don't know how the Holy Spirit can work if YOU are the Final Authority and not the WORD of God.

So if my preacher doesn't match my Bible I choose my Bible over what he says , If another version doesn't match my Bible I choose mine over that version. I first sin in the Bible is not Eve eating fruit. It's Eve changing the word of God , compare Gen 2:16 with Gen 3:3

The first question I ask a JW, Mormon , 7dayer ect ..... What is their Final Authority their Watchtower , Elders ???? It's amazing the look on their face. But if we are going to have honest debate we have to be using the same Final Authority or they will say something different. I will let them use The New World Translation (I have read it 2 times so I have not issue debating using their Bible it's from the Westcott and Hort greek text just like the ( NIV ASV NASV) so I know the areas to focus on.
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Old 03-07-2012, 09:09 AM
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I believe my Final Authority is the WORD of God. So I don't care what Bible (NIV ASA NASAV ect)someone uses just as long as they have ONE that is their Fianl Authority . If you use all the versions plus the greek text and keep some verses you like and through out other because that Bible doesn't agree with you , then YOU become the Final Authority.
This is the first time I've ever heard that argument. I don't think that the differences between the NIV, NASB, KJV change the text enough to be able to say that one verse in one version means something different than the verse in another translation.

I do agree that anytime you start deeming some scripture as valid scripture and other as not (see debate we've had with gr8bldr), you get yourself into a world of mess.

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I first sin in the Bible is not Eve eating fruit. It's Eve changing the word of God , compare Gen 2:16 with Gen 3:3
Interesting thought. Not sure I agree/disagree with it, but interesting thought.
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Old 03-07-2012, 09:48 AM
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When we qualify our “Final Authority” to the extent that it must be such that we can put our hand on it and read it, do we not bring into the picture the same “error” factor that is the basis of this thread;
We also set up a standard that would have been virtually impossible for the early church to live by.
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Old 03-07-2012, 09:53 AM
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But if we are going to have honest debate we have to be using the same Final Authority or they will say something different.
People on this forum use the exact same final authority and still have radically different interpretations. The same has been true since the church began.
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Old 03-07-2012, 10:09 AM
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This is the first time I've ever heard that argument. I don't think that the differences between the NIV, NASB, KJV change the text enough to be able to say that one verse in one version means something different than the verse in another translation.

I do agree that anytime you start deeming some scripture as valid scripture and other as not (see debate we've had with gr8bldr), you get yourself into a world of mess.



Interesting thought. Not sure I agree/disagree with it, but interesting thought.
Good post and Thanks. I just want you and everyone else on the forum to know I draw I hard line on the Bible issue (but I could care less what someone else uses). But as far as my Christian life I'm not legalistic like most KJV guys. They can be the most legalistic guys I have ever met and most are man made rules (long dresses for women, no facial hair ect. I'm just a normal guy , I will drink a beer or 2 , I love hunting ,fishing and I play or practice golf everyday. I have been blessed to learn the Bible from some of the greatest minds on Bible Doctrine and I study from mostly pre 1950 works like Clarence Larkin as far as Bible Doctrine Clarence is hands down the best. The one thing I have learned from all these guys is the Word of God is the Final Authority. I said all this so you know I'm not here to debate Bible versions to use ,that was settled for me years ago.
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Old 03-07-2012, 10:54 AM
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After a long period of chewing on my tounge and debating with myself (to be honest, I'm breaking my word), I just can't stand it any more. All of this "stuff" about which came first the manna or the quail is driving me nuts. Read what both chapters (Ex.16 & Num.11) say. It's really very simple, manna then quail.

Ex.16:4 - the promise of manna
Ex.16:7 - in the morning
Ex.16:8 - flesh in the evening, bread in the morning. Please note carefully that it does not say the next morning.
Ex.16:12&13- the same as v.8, it does not say the next morning. Yes, the order is reversed, but that does not make it the next day.

Num.11:1-5 - The people complain and lust for flesh to eat.
Num.11:6 - ..there is nothing at all besides this manna before our eyes!
Num.11:31-32 - quail come.

Note also Ps.78:23-28 - manna first and then quail (especially v.27- also)

The tactics of the adversary haven't changed since Gen.3:1, he just finds new helpers.

Okay, I've said what I needed to say, now I'm returning to lurk in my self imposed exile.

Be blessed my brothers.
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Old 03-07-2012, 12:07 PM
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After a long period of chewing on my tounge and debating with myself (to be honest, I'm breaking my word), I just can't stand it any more. All of this "stuff" about which came first the manna or the quail is driving me nuts. Read what both chapters (Ex.16 & Num.11) say. It's really very simple, manna then quail.

Ex.16:4 - the promise of manna
Ex.16:7 - in the morning
Ex.16:8 - flesh in the evening, bread in the morning. Please note carefully that it does not say the next morning.
Ex.16:12&13- the same as v.8, it does not say the next morning. Yes, the order is reversed, but that does not make it the next day.

Num.11:1-5 - The people complain and lust for flesh to eat.
Num.11:6 - ..there is nothing at all besides this manna before our eyes!
Num.11:31-32 - quail come.

Note also Ps.78:23-28 - manna first and then quail (especially v.27- also)

The tactics of the adversary haven't changed since Gen.3:1, he just finds new helpers.

Okay, I've said what I needed to say, now I'm returning to lurk in my self imposed exile.

Be blessed my brothers.
Thanks for the imput. Come around more often.
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Old 03-07-2012, 12:37 PM
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Old 03-07-2012, 03:31 PM
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After a long period of chewing on my tounge and debating with myself (to be honest, I'm breaking my word), I just can't stand it any more. All of this "stuff" about which came first the manna or the quail is driving me nuts. Read what both chapters (Ex.16 & Num.11) say. It's really very simple, manna then quail.

Ex.16:4 - the promise of manna
Ex.16:7 - in the morning
Ex.16:8 - flesh in the evening, bread in the morning. Please note carefully that it does not say the next morning.
Ex.16:12&13- the same as v.8, it does not say the next morning. Yes, the order is reversed, but that does not make it the next day.

Num.11:1-5 - The people complain and lust for flesh to eat.
Num.11:6 - ..there is nothing at all besides this manna before our eyes!
Num.11:31-32 - quail come.

Note also Ps.78:23-28 - manna first and then quail (especially v.27- also)

The tactics of the adversary haven't changed since Gen.3:1, he just finds new helpers.

Okay, I've said what I needed to say, now I'm returning to lurk in my self imposed exile.

Be blessed my brothers.
Sorry dude, but your out on a limb. First off, if you think it did not mean "the next morning" then when was he telling them this? LOL. And to compound the situation, Numbers has the Israelites complaining about all they ever get is this manna. From this we assume that it was more than one day of eating manna. This unlike the Ex. verse that says Quail one day, manna in the morning. Sorry, but your ship has sank. I might have let you slide if it had not been for what I highlighted
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Old 03-07-2012, 06:38 PM
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I know many believers don't put as much clout on the Bible as I may. I know believers are saved and going to heaven that don't even open their Bible. I believe God wrote a book, many may think that is extreme. In my mind God speaks to you through his WORD. Christ was called the WORD. So I put a lot of clout on his word. I believe my Final Authority is the WORD of God. So I don't care what Bible (NIV ASA NASAV ect)someone uses just as long as they have ONE that is their Fianl Authority . If you use all the versions plus the greek text and keep some verses you like and through out other because that Bible doesn't agree with you , then YOU become the Final Authority. So I don't know how the Holy Spirit can work if YOU are the Final Authority and not the WORD of God.
So if my preacher doesn't match my Bible I choose my Bible over what he says , If another version doesn't match my Bible I choose mine over that version. I first sin in the Bible is not Eve eating fruit. It's Eve changing the word of God , compare Gen 2:16 with Gen 3:3

The first question I ask a JW, Mormon , 7dayer ect ..... What is their Final Authority their Watchtower , Elders ???? It's amazing the look on their face. But if we are going to have honest debate we have to be using the same Final Authority or they will say something different. I will let them use The New World Translation (I have read it 2 times so I have not issue debating using their Bible it's from the Westcott and Hort greek text just like the ( NIV ASV NASV) so I know the areas to focus on.
That’s a very big “If”, leading to a very weak “straw man”. It leans on the incompatibility of flesh and Spirit, then denies the promises of the Spirit (see the opening paragraph of F1’s post #39, as well as his supporting scripture and so many more).
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Old 03-07-2012, 07:16 PM
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That’s a very big “If”, leading to a very weak “straw man”. It leans on the incompatibility of flesh and Spirit, then denies the promises of the Spirit (see the opening paragraph of F1’s post #39, as well as his supporting scripture and so many more).
I don't disagree with what F1 posted
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