“Subspecies” and NWTF lines

[Gaswamp]

Don't get me wrong I hope before I die that I get the opportunity to kill as many different turkeys in a bunch of different states. However, I don't care about NWTF and surely don't need to be recognized with some grand slam paper

 

[Mark K]

Don't get me wrong I hope before I die that I get the opportunity to kill as many different turkeys in a bunch of different states. However, I don't care about NWTF and surely don't need to be recognized with some grand slam paper

Oh I don’t have any paper saying I did it, just pics and memories!
To be honest, the way it’s set up, anyone could get the paper. All it takes is a couple dishonest people. One to say it and one to back them.
I know what I did and had friends along with me that could verify if I wanted. It didn’t start out to get a Slam, just sorta happened. But now, a single season Slam would be fun! Took me 6 years to get the Grand and 10 to get the Royal. This is my 10th season turkey hunting.
So far the Rio and Gould’s are by far my favorites!
Osceola's I hate, lol! Those birds are just wired different!
And all have been on public land except the Gould’s. Definitely went with an outfitter to hunt Mexico.

 

[walukabuck]

If I am not mistaken, some Florida birds have been transplanted as far north as Minnesota. The source of that info was a retired Game Warden / County Sheriff from Sumter Co. FL who took up writing an outdoor column in the local mullet wrapper upon retirement.

Same GW theorized there were sub-species of Osceolas as some flocks would the gobblers would weigh 14-16 pounds and other flocks gobblers would go 18-20 pounds. While not impossible, a bird above 20 pounds is rare in Sumter Co where I grew up.

Jamie Adams. Seen a couple of your post, a fellow sumter resident here, for now, the villages have absolutely pillaged this poor place. Seen your buck from the old mount thread, Wildwood hunt club by any chance/

 

[XIronheadX]

This is what happens when one cross breeds with a Wilson Football. 12lbs maybe. 2016

 

[buckpasser]

This is what happens when one cross breeds with a Wilson Football. 12lbs maybe. 2016

He looks awful flighty. He can probably coast on the thermals and migrate if need be. Maybe follow the sandhill cranes?

 

[buckpasser]

I have a friend and neighbor who shed some light on this subject this week. He’s been hunting wild turkeys for the past 65+ years and here’s a summary of what he reports to have witnessed in that time in south GA and north FL.

As a kid he says he hunted and killed “feather head” turkeys. Very small, native turkeys with small skulls that lived in isolated pockets on the big creeks and river systems in this area when “there were no turkeys”.

He then got to hunt the stockers he calls “Easterns”. He says these were much heavier, with brushy beards and more aggressive gobbling and responsive to the call.

He says the current day turkeys we have are mostly “Osceola” and are more “pencil bearded” and less talkative and responsive.

I haven’t seen all that he’s seen, but I disagree with none of his assessment for this area.

 

[goblr77]

Man you’re missing out. It’s not so much the Grand Slam, but the different subspecies. They’re all turkeys, but all have different characteristics.
Osceola’s will come out cover our rabbits wouldn’t even go in.
A Rio will hit the ground running and gobble just to hear themselves gobble.
A Merriam will go up or down a mountain at almost a 70 degree angle and be gobbling the entire time...whether going away from you or coming to you.
All of them will have you pulling your hair out or sometimes saying that was the easiest bird ever.
If you love hunting turkeys, then hunting them all should be the ultimate challenge.

That's the best part about pursuing a grand slam. Being able to hunt the different subspecies in the habitat they call home. I still prefer hunting south GA easterns above all, but each of the subspecies holds a special place in my mind with the memories made pursuing them. I love turkeys and turkey hunting and will continue to hunt them all until I'm unable to.

 

[trkyhnt89]

I hunt a large river basin drainage that flows into the St. Johns river in Central Florida. We've got about every type of terrain possible on 6k acres. I've killed 18 pound birds with white wings in a pasture or palmetto flat, to 14 pound gobblers with black wings and shrieking high pitched gobbles in old growth cypress trees with ferns up to your waist. All within a mile of each other and we call them all osceolas.....

 

[buckpasser]

I hunt a large river basin drainage that flows into the St. Johns river in Central Florida. We've got about every type of terrain possible on 6k acres. I've killed 18 pound birds with white wings in a pasture or palmetto flat, to 14 pound gobblers with black wings and shrieking high pitched gobbles in old growth cypress trees with ferns up to your waist. All within a mile of each other and we call them all osceolas.....

Do you believe they are any different than the turkeys in my neck of the woods or anywhere else in the Deep South? Besides being on the south side of the NWTF line that is.

 

[Timber1]

I've a delightful recipe for apple fritters that has a nwtf endorsement.
About all nwtf is good for these days.

 

[devolve]

What say you? Black primaries, killed in FL in 07. How else can you tell if it’s a true Osceola or a hybrid? I say it’s an Osceola.

 

[buckpasser]

What say you? Black primaries, killed in FL in 07. How else can you tell if it’s a true Osceola or a hybrid? I say it’s an Osceola.

View attachment 970347View attachment 970348

I’m not sold on there being any way to tell what it is besides a wild turkey east of the Mississippi, because I’m not really too sure there is anything besides fiction in the Osceola/Eastern thing anyway.

 

[devolve]

I’m not sold on there being any way to tell what it is besides a wild turkey east of the Mississippi, because I’m not really too sure there is anything besides fiction in the Osceola/Eastern thing anyway.

My only opinion is no matter where they rest there feet:
“black primaries with white bars” = Osceola
“White primaries with black bars” = Eastern

I’ve killed a ton of osceolas in my life and a few less easterns. And a few of those easterms where in FL.

 

[Mark K]

I just go by the wings...black wings = Osceola.

 

[Timberman]

I’m not sold on there being any way to tell what it is besides a wild turkey east of the Mississippi, because I’m not really too sure there is anything besides fiction in the Osceola/Eastern thing anyway.

Agree. I was shooting turkeys in Levy County Florida back in the 80's and we all considered them Easterns. Back then you had to be down around Okeechobee way to be hunting Osceolas. Seems like the line keeps creeping north.

 

[Turkey1986]

My son killed this bird in Washington, MO this spring. A skosh over 25 lbs, and pretty dark barring for an eastern, especially in the Midwest.

 

[Turkey1986]

In regards to other variations... Both of these turkeys are North Mississippi from this year. Only about 30 minutes from one another. The bird with the curved sharp spurs, and legs about the length of a large rooster weighed around 13 lbs, the other bird weighed about 17. I took the time to look through all the other legs from birds I’ve killed over the years, and couldn’t find one that had legs remotely that short. He came off the national forest up here.

 

[trkyhnt89]

Do you believe they are any different than the turkeys in my neck of the woods or anywhere else in the Deep South? Besides being on the south side of the NWTF line that is.

No, but I'm no expert have only killed a handful of "easterns" in alabama and south carolina. We call all the ones we kill here osceolas cause were south of that magical line lol

 

[Turkeytider]

I’m not sold on there being any way to tell what it is besides a wild turkey east of the Mississippi, because I’m not really too sure there is anything besides fiction in the Osceola/Eastern thing anyway.

Well, as we all know, all wild turkeys are of the same genus an species ( Meleagris gallopavo ) with differences in their subspecific names. The subspecies do differ genetically. That`s been shown through differences in gene sequencing. The interesting thing to ponder upon is inter-subspecies hybridization.

 

[Turkeytider]

My son killed this bird in Washington, MO this spring. A skosh over 25 lbs, and pretty dark barring for an eastern, especially in the Midwest.

25 lbs., that`s a big wild turkey. Where we hunt in east central GA, the birds run 21-23 on average I`d say.