I'll add a twist that I don't think anybody has touched on (unless I missed a post). I realize this is the Handgun Hunting thread but I bought a Rossi R92 lever-action rifle in .357 mag with a 16" barrel and from what I can surmise from internet discussions, that combo makes it very lethal on deer inside of 150 yards. I even read one commentary that said a 158 grain .357 SP fired from a rifle will mimic the same ballistics of a .30-.30 inside of 150. ('halleluiah chorus' here). We all know the legendary reputation of the .30-.30 in the deer woods.The long barrel of a lever-action rifle takes the 357 to an entirely new level. I'm itching to try it Thanksgiving week when I'll be vacating from work. I will still take my trusted Browning BAR in .270, but the little lever carbine is short and light enough to pack in my back-pack for the chance to take some closer shots to test its effectiveness. Wish me luck!
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357 mag for deer
- Thread starter armalite
- Start date
littlewolf
Senior Member
AM1, definitely go with the buffalo bore heavy 180 gr ammo. Check out the downrange energy on those compared to others and you see why.
At 100 yards you are well above the 800 ftlb mark out of your 16" rifle. At 150 yards you are closer to 700 ftlbs.
Also at 100 yards you are only looking at about 3" of drop. At 150 yards you are looking at around 9" of drop.
I would try to keep my shots within 100 yards.
At 100 yards you are well above the 800 ftlb mark out of your 16" rifle. At 150 yards you are closer to 700 ftlbs.
Also at 100 yards you are only looking at about 3" of drop. At 150 yards you are looking at around 9" of drop.
I would try to keep my shots within 100 yards.
Couldn't find anything heavier than 158 in my neck of the woods. I have quickly discovered that long guns chambered for pistol rounds are extremely choosy about what they shoot well. I started out with a box of Sellier and Belloit 158s and they were spot on at 100 yards. No problems at all. Ran out of those and tried a box of 158 American Eagle. Immediately began shooting about 6"high and about a foot to the left at 100. I massaged it out and finally got it shooting the American Eagle straight on but still about 3" high at 65 yards. I've got the rear adjusted all it will go so I'm going to have to pull a little low. I don't plan on shooting anything outside of 75 yards. Further than that and I will just reach for the BAR....
I have a Ruger bolt in 357 that I'm ready to use on a deer if one will stand still for 2 to 3 seconds within 150 yards. Got one more trip to go.
Have 2 rifle hunting loads: 158 XTP at a guesstimated 2,200 fps + that shoots 3/4 inch at 100 yards from the 18-1/2 inch barrel. It is a 357 maximum load that works nice in my 357 rifle with no excessive pressure evidence. And a 140 Barnes all copper that shoots about 1.5 inches at 100 yards (same powder charge). I use the Barnes more because it chambers best in the gun (picky thing) and is more likely to punch all the way thru...
Shot a doe with the 158 XTP load out of a single shot last year. Head & neck goes back & thump on the ground. Right thru both shoulders at 50 +/- yards. Fist sized hole in lungs. Worked good. I was impressed.
Can't figure out why guys say 357 is not enough for deer. If you get full penetration, the cartridge is enough. I dropped from a 30-06 to a 243 to a 357 mag. LOL! Love that 357 mag.
Someone was doing the Ft pounds of energy equation - You can't do that if using a solid lead bullet - it just punches thru. You can play the number games with expanding bullets but the lead ones will go all the way thru at 200 yards and your calculator is saying some low #... The bullets didn't read the book and don't seem to be bothered by it.
Have 2 rifle hunting loads: 158 XTP at a guesstimated 2,200 fps + that shoots 3/4 inch at 100 yards from the 18-1/2 inch barrel. It is a 357 maximum load that works nice in my 357 rifle with no excessive pressure evidence. And a 140 Barnes all copper that shoots about 1.5 inches at 100 yards (same powder charge). I use the Barnes more because it chambers best in the gun (picky thing) and is more likely to punch all the way thru...
Shot a doe with the 158 XTP load out of a single shot last year. Head & neck goes back & thump on the ground. Right thru both shoulders at 50 +/- yards. Fist sized hole in lungs. Worked good. I was impressed.
Can't figure out why guys say 357 is not enough for deer. If you get full penetration, the cartridge is enough. I dropped from a 30-06 to a 243 to a 357 mag. LOL! Love that 357 mag.
Someone was doing the Ft pounds of energy equation - You can't do that if using a solid lead bullet - it just punches thru. You can play the number games with expanding bullets but the lead ones will go all the way thru at 200 yards and your calculator is saying some low #... The bullets didn't read the book and don't seem to be bothered by it.
miles58
Banned yankee
I have thought about using my 6 inch 686 to kill deer. I bought some Barnes M/LE 125 grain TAC-XP bullets and loaded them over 2400 powder. The testing I did gives me the belief I could kill deer out of a 38 (not 38 Special) if I stay inside 50 feet. Pass through at <900 FPS would be iffy. At 357 velocities (16 grains of 2400 and 1300 FPS) I am confident a properly placed shot will kill decently at 50 yards. 25 yards and in they should mostly pass through.
These bullets have a whopping big hollow point, and like all Barnes bullets are very tough. Those thin little petals do not seem to separate at the velocities I tried them. Max load is 17.5 grains 2400 and that books at 1450 or so which by my experience may be a little low out of a six inch barrel.
Dave
These bullets have a whopping big hollow point, and like all Barnes bullets are very tough. Those thin little petals do not seem to separate at the velocities I tried them. Max load is 17.5 grains 2400 and that books at 1450 or so which by my experience may be a little low out of a six inch barrel.
Dave
HandgunHTR
Steelringin' Mod
Rich,
You are comparing apples to oranges here.
There is a HUGE difference in velocities between a closed breech (single shot or lever gun) rifle and a revolver. The main reason is that there is no cylinder gap to lose pressure with as well as the extra 12-15 inches of barrel length to get a complete powder burn with the slower powders.
I would not hesitate to use a .357 Mag out of a TC Carbine or even a 14" barreled pistol, or one of the lever guns chambered for it these days.
However, in a revolver, it is marginal at best.
B Man
Senior Member
The reason the 4" barrel revolver has more velocity than the 6" is more than likely due to cylinder gap. Two revolvers with the same cylinder gap the longer barrel revolver will always have more speed. If you take a 6" closed breech pistol ( TC encore ) and a 6" barrel revolver the closed breech will ALWAYS have more velocity because the gases can not escape and are forced down the barrel against the projectile. So saying this in revolvers always go for the longer barrel for chance of velocity because the cylinder gap is a gamble.
cbraswell85
Member
I have a gp100 with a six inch and two years ago I shot a doe with a 158 xtp and it did amazing. Went home reloaded a few loads of 180 xtp a little hotter hoping for a better round, WRONG!! I shot two this year in the chest at 20 yrds from the ground and lost both. Going back to load 158 at factory speeds
trial&error
Senior Member
quit loading those xtp's for hunting and you would not have lost them. stick with hard cast lead for complete pass through.
iowa-boy
Senior Member
where you getting the swchp's at. i shoot swc from missouri bullet, but would like to stay with lead instead of copper hp's.
tcward
Senior Member
I agree on the hardcast bullet for penetration, but are they legal? Regulations say "expanding bullet" and most hard cast I have ever shot expand very little if any?
trial&error
Senior Member
Good question, honestly I've never recovered my rounds from any kill. Exit hole is always bigger than entrance so it never occurred to me that it might not be expanding.
captainhook
Senior Member
I have shot deer with 357 and 44 handguns. I had better success with the 357! The crazy thing was I wasn't shooting anything special. I had a couple boxes of ancient 158 gr Winchester semi jacketed hollow points. They left gruesome exit wounds. The first couple deer I shot with the 44 got away. I had one I blew out both shoulders and she ran into. A bulrush filled pond and I couldn't find her. The next one I shot ran right at me wobbling and fell 20 yds from the stand. I watched her for 30 minutes and didn't appear to draw a breath. I got down and when I got to her there was a puddle of blood the size of her chest and no deer! I trailed her to the edge of the same pond where her trail ended at waters edge.
I never lost one with the 357 and shot twice as many deer with it.
I did kill a nice 8 pt with a Performance Center 44 and a Winchester Platinum HP. I'll see if I can find a pic.
I never lost one with the 357 and shot twice as many deer with it.
I did kill a nice 8 pt with a Performance Center 44 and a Winchester Platinum HP. I'll see if I can find a pic.
captainhook
Senior Member
Not a 357 kill but a handgun no less. One of the does I shot with the 357 was the biggest I've ever seen. The preserve owner I guided for wanted me to shoot him a yearling and like to fell out when I showed up with her. He asked if it was a donkey LOL. He was a funny guy, rest his soul.
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HandgunHTR
Steelringin' Mod
We have had this discussion a couple of times.
The outcomes were almost always that due to the fact that they are lead-alloy and not jacketed, they will deform and therefore can be called "expanding". This was confirmed by me with a couple of GW who both stated that they wouldn't cite someone carrying cast bullets for that particular item. FMJs are a different story.
tcward
Senior Member
Thanks for this reply. I have always wondered if they were legal.
Rick Blane
Member
Its my choice. 357 will get the job done on anything in the lower 48 and its cheap to feed. Shot placement is more important than your load. A miss with the top 357 round does not beat a hit with a middle of the road round.
Spend time at the range.
Spend time at the range.
