???

[WaltL1]

Either someone not on the Ark survived to make the picture, or Noah had a very long selfie stick.

I considered not posting it but given the "facts" of the Flood story...…..

 

[WaltL1]

I agree on the horoscopes and fortune cookies. But there is something about those dang science journals........and the thing is, folks have to “just believe” it because we know they haven’t tested it for themselves

Don’t know anything about a magic 8 ball though.

Science journals are not the Bible.
Science journals are read knowing the science can change by the time you finish the journal.
Science journals don't tell me that those who don't believe it are condemned...…..

 

[ky55]

Horoscopes and fortune cookies are nonsense however a Magic 8 Ball is legit.

“Yes”
“No”
“Not right now”

Now what does that sound like?

 

[Spotlite]

Science journals are not the Bible.
Science journals are read knowing the science can change by the time you finish the journal.
Science journals don't tell me that those who don't believe it are condemned...…..

So you want a book with happy endings for all regardless of their lifestyle choices and no solid foundation for any?

 

[Israel]

 

[ambush80]

I agree on the horoscopes and fortune cookies. But there is something about those dang science journals........and the thing is, folks have to “just believe” it because we know they haven’t tested it for themselves

Don’t know anything about a magic 8 ball though.

Ridiculous. No one has to "just believe" anything. The only people I've ever heard suggest to "just believe" are religious people. I was told to "just believe" as a child. That's some bad stuff.

 

[ambush80]

So you want a book with happy endings for all regardless of their lifestyle choices and no solid foundation for any?

No. I want the truth as best as can be determined. I want to hear the science behind why a lifestyle choice is good or bad, not archaic opinions. I understand the utility of ancient wisdoms. They got us through some rough times, but the combination of the rough times and the profound limitations on their knowledge caused ancient people to come up with some truly idiotic ideas. It's only because of ideas like "just believe" that we can't examine those bad ideas without people getting their feelings hurt.

 

[Spotlite]

Ridiculous. No one has to "just believe" anything. The only people I've ever heard suggest to "just believe" are religious people. I was told to "just believe" as a child. That's some bad stuff.

Ok where’s your own work to prove the science you read and trust as accurate?

“Just believing” is a separate topic. Again, you are indicating that you failed to study and relied on others.

 

[bullethead]

Ok where’s your own work to prove the science you read and trust as accurate?

“Just believing” is a separate topic. Again, you are indicating that you failed to study and relied on others.

I'm still a little over $900 million short on finishing my backyard Haldron Collider to reaffirm or refute those in the zany Higgs Boson crowd.
But
I don't have to take a 2nd bite of the meadow muffins left behind from authors of the Bible to know their taste is something different than what they claim.

 

[bullethead]

Ok where’s your own work to prove the science you read and trust as accurate?

“Just believing” is a separate topic. Again, you are indicating that you failed to study and relied on others.

See Spotlite, all we have to go by is personal experience and knowledge gained by ourselves or other human individuals. I cannot argue with that. But when someone interjects an outside source, a devine source, a god that is above and beyond all human capabilities such as you describe, then the standards change.
I can back up my claims with my work or based off the work of others who are more educated, more intelligent and more well funded who as a profession have thousands of others working daily to affirm and reaffirm to the best that the capabilities allow. We fully admit that humans are our source.
You and your like claim you get your information from a source that is beyond and greater than all that and we expect to see proof and evidence that match your claims.
Until then, being that we are all humans and on equal ground, the human scientific side is crushing the god religion side in evidence and the ability to back up claims.

It is that simple.

 

[Spotlite]

I'm still a little over $900 million short on finishing my backyard Haldron Collider to reaffirm or refute those in the zany Higgs Boson crowd.
But
I don't have to take a 2nd bite of the meadow muffins left behind from authors of the Bible to know their taste is something different than what they claim.

Lol the whole idea is not take second bites from anyone.

 

[Spotlite]

See Spotlite, all we have to go by is personal experience and knowledge gained by ourselves or other human individuals. I cannot argue with that. But when someone interjects an outside source, a devine source, a god that is above and beyond all human capabilities such as you describe, then the standards change.
I can back up my claims with my work or based off the work of others who are more educated, more intelligent and more well funded who as a profession have thousands of others working daily to affirm and reaffirm to the best that the capabilities allow. We fully admit that humans are our source.
You and your like claim you get your information from a source that is beyond and greater than all that and we expect to see proof and evidence that match your claims.
Until then, being that we are all humans and on equal ground, the human scientific side is crushing the god religion side in evidence and the ability to back up claims.

It is that simple.

So energy is your source? I do find it interesting that our experience is unusable by non believers until it’s favorable for them to rely on experience.

 

[ambush80]

Ok where’s your own work to prove the science you read and trust as accurate?

Science describes many things that we know from experience. Cavemen knew that rocks fall down but it took scientists to come up with an equation that describes gravity in such detail that it allows us to calculate orbits of planets so that we can land on the Moon. So, I know about gravity from first hand knowledge, I learned about Gravitational Theory, and I've seen how that understanding has allowed us to do undreamed of things. There are many other things that science has described that I can test myself, like the Bernoulli Principle. Furthermore, I understand the scientific method and so do you. It absolutely rejects the proposition "just believe".

“Just believing” is a separate topic. Again, you are indicating that you failed to study and relied on others.

They told me that I must simply "believe that Jesus rose from the dead". I looked into the possibility of it (despite their recommendation to "just believe") and discovered it to be unfounded. Why do you believe it? What's your evidence? We have gone over the fact that historical records are inconclusive. Bullet has pointed out many times that the resurrection story is poorly corroborated.

I'm still a little over $900 million short on finishing my backyard Haldron Collider to reaffirm or refute those in the zany Higgs Boson crowd.
But
I don't have to take a 2nd bite of the meadow muffins left behind from authors of the Bible to know their taste is something different than what they claim.

Of any scientific claim you can go and do the research or experiments yourself. You can look at their experiment. They want you to see how they did it. They don't want you to take anything on faith. They want you find flaws in their experiments or calculations because they don't want to be mistaken. They want to be as correct as they can.

 

[bullethead]

Lol the whole idea is not take second bites from anyone.

That is not how things work. Not for me. Not for you. It is called reality.

So energy is your source?

Can you show me where I spelled out that energy is my source ANYWHERE in my reply?
I made it a point to distinctly point out that the humans and their work in the fields of science is my source and the sources that guide all of our lives daily. I full well admitted that I rely on the work of other humans when my abilities and own capabilities are limited.

And you reply with, "So energy is your source"

Priceless, Spotlite...seriously priceless.

 

[ambush80]

"Makes me feel good". "Gives me grace". "I will have everlasting life in Paradise". "I will be spared from He11". "I know what my purpose is and where I came from". "I am forgiven of my sins". "I have a personal relationship with the creator of the universe". These are some the things I've heard from believers about the nature of their beliefs. I get it. At this point, I almost don't care if one has good reasons or not to believe those things. What I still won't accept, and will take my time to rebut, is when someone claims that their reasons are good but won't allow those kinds of reasons for anyone else.

 

[ambush80]

"Makes me feel good". "Gives me grace". "I will have everlasting life in Paradise". "I will be spared from He11". "I know what my purpose is and where I came from". "I am forgiven of my sins". "I have a personal relationship with the creator of the universe". These are some the things I've heard from believers about the nature of their beliefs. I get it. At this point, I almost don't care if one has good reasons or not to believe those things. What I still won't accept, and will take my time to rebut, is when someone claims that their reasons are good but won't allow those kinds of reasons for anyone else.

I also don't like that they base their beliefs on something unverifiable and then base their ideas about how to arrange society on those beliefs (except the good parts).

 

[bullethead]

So energy is your source? I do find it interesting that our experience is unusable by non believers until it’s favorable for them to rely on experience.

Listen, if you want to go see the Haldron Collider you can go see it. If you want to read up on how it works and how they get results, test the results and retest the results so they keep getting the same results, you can.
They do not say "I have a feeling that this is how it works" and just leave it at that. They do not say that they had a thought and then it thundered and that is proof their thought was correct. They do not rely on the writings of 2000 to 5000 year old scientists as the do all, be all end all limits to the scientific way.

You drop a rock and I drop a rock and each time our rocks fall down. The experience for each is the same.
You say (all specifics missing because you never told us what exactly happened that you know the God as written in the Bible is 100% responsible for the outcome) and expect me to believe that that experience is the same as a testable and verifiable experience.

It just is not so.

 

[ambush80]

So energy is your source? I do find it interesting that our experience is unusable by non believers until it’s favorable for them to rely on experience.

How many times have you seen me type something like "I recognize the utility of ancient wisdoms"? How many times? Do you know what I mean by that? I've also said many times that I think it useful for people to "act right" because they're afraid of a fictional (or unprovable) Boogey man. But I also know that there are good reasons to be good because I've examined them.

 

[Spotlite]

How many times have you seen me type something like "I recognize the utility of ancient wisdoms"? How many times? Do you know what I mean by that? I've also said many times that I think it useful for people to "act right" because they're afraid of a fictional (or unprovable) Boogey man. But I also know that there are good reasons to be good because I've examined them.

I am sure we both can agree that our arguments are in general and do not apply to all, there are exceptions in many cases.

 

[Spotlite]

Listen, if you want to go see the Haldron Collider you can go see it. If you want to read up on how it works and how they get results, test the results and retest the results so they keep getting the same results, you can.
They do not say "I have a feeling that this is how it works" and just leave it at that. They do not say that they had a thought and then it thundered and that is proof their thought was correct. They do not rely on the writings of 2000 to 5000 year old scientists as the do all, be all end all limits to the scientific way.

You drop a rock and I drop a rock and each time our rocks fall down. The experience for each is the same.
You say (all specifics missing because you never told us what exactly happened that you know the God as written in the Bible is 100% responsible for the outcome) and expect me to believe that that experience is the same as a testable and verifiable experience.

It just is not so.

I think the misconnect here bullet is this, I don't expect anything from you. Point is, this experience belongs to me and is self evident for me alone. And that is the great thing about it, no-one but me can smear that.