A Date Which Will Live In Infamy

Thread starter #1
 

rayjay

Senior Member
We could not do it today.
A couple of years ago I met a Tinian Marine at lunch. He was with his great-great granddaughter. As I was about to leave I mentioned that the atom bombs most likely saved his life and he vigorously nodded his head. I bet that was an eye opener for his 18 year old descendent !
 

bassboy1

Senior Member
why cant we appreciate and remember our fallen, on a sacred day like this without a tool like you being disrespectful. go jump off a bridge and land on rocks.
I have the utmost respect for those that answered the call, and fought for the rest of us. This is not intended to take away from them, in the slightest.

But, I haven't got even the slightest bit of sympathy for those in positions of power who willfully put our honorable Americans in harms way for a personal agenda. There truly isn't a lower form of evil, in my eyes.

Unfortunately, this was not the first, nor the last time this sort of has happened throughout our country's history, and given history's natural tendency to replicate itself, similar things will probably continue to happen in the future. But, studying the mistakes of the past will hopefully provide some knowledge and foresight into avoiding them in the future.

I posted this in the political forum, not any of the other forums where I think it would be inappropriate. My understanding is this is where we debate political and historical issues.

If you disagree with the premise, spell it out for me. I'm here to learn, and it wouldn't be the first time that a member in this forum has clarified my understanding of something to the extent that my opinion has been altered. The internet is full of links with factual historical data. Explain where my understanding is flawed.
 
Thread starter #12
If you disagree with the premise, spell it out for me.
Yes, I disagree with the premise because it didn't happen. This same old story keeps surfacing over and over again and it's bunkum and hooey every time it comes up. And yes, it has been debunked but I'm not interested in attempting to prove it to anybody.
 

rayjay

Senior Member
I guess the part about atmospheric interference in radio communications is not as well known as I thought.
 

Paleo

Senior Member
That one has been debunked so many times its' pitiful.
Denied and disputed might be more accurate than "debunked".FDR is considered a saint or some sort of demigod in liberal academic and career government circles.

What is definitively know is that we were deliberately provoking Japan and expected an imminent attack. What is disputed is that FDR knew exactly when and where.

Yamamoto was at the top of his game and the Army and Navy commanders at Pearl Harbor weren't so incompetence and confusion are somewhat likelier explanations of how we got blindsided at Pearl Harbor .
 
I haven't got even the slightest bit of sympathy for those in positions of power who willfully put our honorable Americans in harms way for a personal agenda.
Amen brother.

The socialist FDR certainly had an agenda that did not include national defense. I suspect the military leaders lack even the screen of an agenda. Sec. of War Stimson disagreed with FDR, wanted to upgrade readiness, but caved to FDR's orders. The Army and Navy commanders actually had plenty of warning.

The US Army commander in the Pacific, General Douglas MacArthur, had received warning of a Japanese attack at least a MONTH before the December 8, 1941 attacks in the Philippines. He received a total of at least 4 separate warnings. All he did was order all Army Air Corps flights cancelled and aircraft concentrated on airfields with guards to prevent sabotage. MacArthur did not order Army units in the Pacific to prepare for an attack until several HOURS AFTER Pearl Harbor was attacked AND Japanese attacks on US facilities in the Philippines had begun. His reports to the War department in November 1941 clearly stated that the Japanese were incapable of attacking US interests in the Pacific.

Commander-in-Chief Pacific Fleet, Adm. Husband Kimmel, received those same warnings - plus a specific warning of an attack against the warships in Pearl Harbor. Kimmel's response was also to concentrate Navy aircraft and guard against sabotage. The Admiral did not pass any warnings on to division commanders or other Navy facilities. Even after two Japanese sub sightings near Oahu on December 4 and 6, 1941, Kimmel did not alert fleet units.

Whether by incompetence, or gross negligence, our own military leaders earned a share of the blame for lives lost in the Pacific.
 
Thread starter #16
Denied and disputed might be more accurate than "debunked".
Go ahead and roll with that if it scratches your conspiracy itch. The idea Roosevelt knew in advance has definitely been debunked and I'm one of Roosevelt's most ardent detractors.
 
Presidential Address to Congress on December 8, 1941. Known as the Infamy Speech, it was delivered at 12:30 p.m. that day to a Joint Session of Congress by United States President Franklin D. Roosevelt, one day after the Empire of Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor Naval Base, Hawaii. Roosevelt famously describes the previous day as "a date which will live in infamy."
Within an hour of the speech, Congress passed a formal declaration of war against Japan and officially brought the U.S. into World War II. The address is regarded as one of the most famous American political speeches of the 20th century.
We will remember.



 
Thread starter #19
The funny thing is I didn't post this thread for purposes of bashing Roosevelt but rather in remembrance of the day WWII started and the cost of the sacrifice made to free the world of totalitarianism.

It just goes to show you there isn't much appreciation for any of that anymore. People get hung up in Mickey Mouse conspiracy theories that have no basis in fact and they lose sight of the big picture. It's really pretty sad.

SSG "Floogie" ELF Jr - 84th ID, 333 IR, 1st Bn, Baker Co, 1st Plt, 1st Squad. Ardennes Campaign, Dec '44 - Jan '45. You were good Dad. I'll be seeing you again after while. :rockon:
 

NOYDB

Senior Member
I thought it was the Germans that attacked Pearl Harbour.

Remember the Maine!
 
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