All condemned, but all justified

Thread starter #41
Then you are in conflict with 2100 years of Church History and teaching.

God Calls, man accepts, and we must "run the race" to the end. Saved, sanctified, and on the way to heaven, once saved always saved, faith alone, etc., etc, etc., is not Biblical nor has it ever been taught by the church.
Brother, there is a narrow gate. And few there be that find it.
 
Guidance from the indwelling Spirit.
These are predestined to be conformed to His image.
I can see the universal reconciliation. I can see the kingdom as being something different.
Does scripture tell us God's purpose for pre-electing individuals to the Kingdom? Better yet what is the purpose of the Kingdom?

Sometimes I have to wonder, why so much scripture about the Kingdom if we have no free will about entering it.
 

Madman

Senior Member
Guidance from the indwelling Spirit.
These are predestined to be conformed to His image.
If they have not heard how will the know? If they read how do they understand. For 400 years, no Bible, how did people learn and believe? Phillip asked the Eunic if he understood what he was reading. I don't think the eunic said yes the Holy Spirit is teaching me.
 

Israel

Senior Member
If they have not heard how will the know? If they read how do they understand. For 400 years, no Bible, how did people learn and believe? Phillip asked the Eunic if he understood what he was reading. I don't think the eunic said yes the Holy Spirit is teaching me.
That's true.
The how and why of a man's understanding and profession is not dependent upon his own understanding of the how and why.

Look at Peter's response to Jesus question "who do you say I am?" That Peter knew/believed to speak as he did "thou art the Christ, the son of the living God" neither included, nor even needed any appending...as in "the spirit has revealed to me..." Peter just spoke as he saw.

But Jesus is very clear in His understanding (unless we imagine He is not...God forbid!)..."flesh and blood has not revealed this to you..."

Though I see it and take it as I see it and take it with no requirement upon any other for like agreement, nevertheless I do take it that no other man explained this to Peter, laid this out for Peter, and not even Peter himself was able to reason himself to it (read: figure it out...).
Now, as I have said, it is of no matter if any agree...with me.

But I have to ask, as I have asked (and that I trust as the same Lord) "is there purpose to Jesus speaking so?" (I ask this of every and, of, the, by, for, from, to, a, any, with, all, etc...in simpler terms...every single word I may have easily presumed to a previous understanding). Does Jesus speak with all purpose, and only purpose?

For then to me it is important (made important not by my assignment of importance...but by the importance of which I am persuaded Jesus always and only speaks) that Jesus said as he does. For me it is that Jesus recognizes in that moment who is speaking "into" Peter, no less in recognition as at another time "get thee behind me Satan".

We frequently seem all at a loss in explanations of why's and hows. If man is reduced to, at best, nothing more than a blank sheet of paper for the writing of another, the speaking of another...(or as some might describe a puppet simply moved by another hand)...how could such blank sheet, or puppet explain the maneuverings that bring him to say, see, speak, as he does? After all, if to himself he is all of manipulable...and can only give "out" what is given "into him".

Perhaps something of this is most easily understood when the man does indeed see that "I am all of manipulable"...I am receiver only, exercised upon, and not originator of anything. No more than the radio itself creates the words coming through it.

That Jesus Christ is found in all submission and expression of this Himself "of myself I can do nothing" for me bears much consideration.

I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

If man is gifted to see and believe that in this receiver there is no fault, no wayward circuit creating static, no defect that interferes with what it "gives out", formed of such perfection both for the receiving and letting of passing through in purity, then it will take a work of the Speaker who speaks through, to convince one this is the truth in all.

And there was much murmuring among the people concerning him: for some said, He is a good man: others said, Nay; but he deceiveth the people.

I am persuaded God protects and encourages the blanks, the empty, the made clean and fit for His writing, for it is His own work through Christ, to make them so. Believing the sinless one as sacrifice for all does a work in repair of circuits, healer of "short" cuts, making them no less blank and vulnerable and fit for a writing that is to eternal life.

And he said, So is the kingdom of God, as if a man should cast seed into the ground; And should sleep, and rise night and day, and the seed should spring and grow up, he knoweth not how. For the earth bringeth forth fruit of herself; first the blade, then the ear, after that the full corn in the ear.

What may be persuaded to a reckoning of itself as no more than mere dirt and water (earth) and be persuaded to take no more to itself than such as it is in the hands of the Master gardener, may discover a garden being raised that is all of health. And delightfully so.

Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.

If all our hope is for His appearing this is no less the work of the Master.
We can no more make ourselves to bear fruit than we could make ourselves...good soil.

Yet, our Lord himself has told us such is. There is a good soil to be seen, and found...and planted in.

Who is it?

Who is first seeded with the word of God in all purity and acceptance? Who "first let" God be all in all in word to Him, sight to Him, knowing to Him...even to the death of the cross?

And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: That no flesh should glory in his presence. But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

How much might a man receive in simple agreement with God?

As the one was made of dust, so also are those of the earth; and as is the heavenly one, so also are those of heaven.

Dust not seeking to be anything more than it is...is changed to see another.

And in that seeing is the seeing of all that is to be seen...and shown.
 
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Thread starter #55
If they have not heard how will the know? If they read how do they understand. For 400 years, no Bible, how did people learn and believe? Phillip asked the Eunic if he understood what he was reading. I don't think the eunic said yes the Holy Spirit is teaching me.
Read Acts 8 again very carefully, and note how the Spirit was working the whole time, from start to finish. He doesn't need man to do the work, although sometimes he let's man have a certain part,... seemingly.

1 John 2
27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
 
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Madman

Senior Member
Read Acts 8 again very carefully, and note how the Spirit was working the whole time, from start to finish. He doesn't need man to do the work, although sometimes he let's man have a certain part,... seemingly.

1 John 2
27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
You may want to re-read James. I choose to "work out my salvation with fear and trembling" if you believe there is nothing for you to do after the effectual calling of God, then so be it. The reformation has worked its "magic" on you.

Peace my friend.
 

j_seph

Senior Member
Rom.5
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Someone explain to me how this text is not saying every single individual is justified by Christ.
If I give you a gift, it is up to you to accept it or reject it. You reject a gift I give you I may or may not offer you a gift again.
 
Thread starter #58
You may want to re-read James. I choose to "work out my salvation with fear and trembling" if you believe there is nothing for you to do after the effectual calling of God, then so be it. The reformation has worked its "magic" on you.

Peace my friend.
He works in us so that we can work it out. In that order. That's all I've ever been saying. If you heard something else, then you've misunderstood me apparently.
 
Thread starter #59
If I give you a gift, it is up to you to accept it or reject it. You reject a gift I give you I may or may not offer you a gift again.
Man's logic and reasoning are foolish here. Man does not have an effectual call as his gift to give. That analogy is plain silly.
 

j_seph

Senior Member
Man's logic and reasoning are foolish here. Man does not have an effectual call as his gift to give. That analogy is plain silly.
Through one man's offence, all mankind are exposed to eternal condemnation. But the grace and mercy of God, and the free gift of righteousness and salvation, are through Jesus Christ, as man: yet the Lord from heaven has brought the multitude of believers into a more safe and exalted state than that from which they fell in Adam. This free gift did not place them anew in a state of trial, but fixed them in a state of justification, as Adam would have been placed, had he stood. Notwithstanding the differences, there is a striking similarity. As by the offence of one, sin and death prevailed to the condemnation of all men, so by the righteousness of one, grace prevailed to the justification of all related to Christ by faith. Through the grace of God, the gift by grace has abounded to many through Christ; yet multitudes choose to remain under the dominion of sin and death, rather than to apply for the blessings of the reign of grace. But Christ will in nowise cast out any who are willing to come to him.
 
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