Any Preterists in here?

It seems to me that everything should be physical or everthing should be spiritual at some point. I think that is one thing Preterism tries to answer.
That now everything is spiritual when we die a physical death. That we go directly to Heaven as spirits never to return to the earth. That Jesus is now back to the spirit part of God that he was before he became a man. That he returned to the Trinity in the spirit form that he once was.

I don't think they believe Jesus is at the right hand of God in a physical resurrected body.

Preterism makes everything spiritual. They think that Christ's resurrection was the only human to have a physical resurrection and his was just to show that he had defeated death. They somehow even make his resurrection spiritual instead of physical.
 

hobbs27

Senior Member
What armies was Jerusalem surrounded by in 70AD? Also, Jesus here is alluding to a prophecy in Zech 14 where it also says that Jerusalem, after the "armies" are destroyed will dwell in peace and safety forever. Are the inhabitants of Jerusalem dwelling in safety?

For the full preterist: Do you still evangelize? Take communion?
The Roman army surrounded Jerusalem for 3 1/2 years starting in AD66 ending with the destruction of the temple in AD 70.

Do I take communion? I have, and I would again. Do I evangelize..Of course.
 

hobbs27

Senior Member
A simple understanding is, AD 70 was the end of the age ie. Old covenant age that had been made void at the cross, but was still in existence and about to vanish when the author penned Hebrews 8:13.

All prophesies were fulfilled in Gods judging of Apostate Jews..Jerusalem was left desolate. And the New Covenant church age has no end. Ephesians 3:21.

Jesus completed the task He come to do, and in the first century when He said it would be done.
 
Thread starter #44
A simple understanding is, AD 70 was the end of the age ie. Old covenant age that had been made void at the cross, but was still in existence and about to vanish when the author penned Hebrews 8:13.

All prophesies were fulfilled in Gods judging of Apostate Jews..Jerusalem was left desolate. And the New Covenant church age has no end. Ephesians 3:21.

Jesus completed the task He come to do, and in the first century when He said it would be done.
So, in your opinion, the new covenant started in 70AD, not when Christ was crucified? Was there a 40 year lag?
 
Thread starter #45
It seems to me that everything should be physical or everthing should be spiritual at some point. I think that is one thing Preterism tries to answer.
That now everything is spiritual when we die a physical death. That we go directly to Heaven as spirits never to return to the earth. That Jesus is now back to the spirit part of God that he was before he became a man. That he returned to the Trinity in the spirit form that he once was.

I don't think they believe Jesus is at the right hand of God in a physical resurrected body.

Preterism makes everything spiritual. They think that Christ's resurrection was the only human to have a physical resurrection and his was just to show that he had defeated death. They somehow even make his resurrection spiritual instead of physical.
I don't think you can lump all Preterists into one group. There are big differences between Full and Partial Preterists, although they are also brothers and sisters in Christ. IMO, believing that all prophecy was fulfilled in 70AD or not is not a salvation issue....no different that being Pre or Post-Trib.
 
Thread starter #46
A simple understanding is, AD 70 was the end of the age ie. Old covenant age that had been made void at the cross, but was still in existence and about to vanish when the author penned Hebrews 8:13.

All prophesies were fulfilled in Gods judging of Apostate Jews..Jerusalem was left desolate. And the New Covenant church age has no end. Ephesians 3:21.

Jesus completed the task He come to do, and in the first century when He said it would be done.
Also, if you read Hebrews 6, 7, and 8, and remove the added words (which are in italics) "covenant", you'll see that it is clearly talking about the priesthood coming to an end. Hebrews 8:8..."finding fault with THEM"....not the covenant, but with men....priests. As you know, the priesthood was very corrupt during Christ's time.
 

hobbs27

Senior Member
So, in your opinion, the new covenant started in 70AD, not when Christ was crucified? Was there a 40 year lag?
No, it began with Christs earthly ministry, but there were two co existing covenants until AD 70. For 40 years Jesus words, " The Gospel" led those in bondage of the old covenant law out of it, and into the Liberty in Christ...New Covenant. AD 70 was the vindication of the saints, it was the end spoken of in all prophesies.

The Harlot of Revelation was no doubt mystery Babylon, the great city, the land beast...old covenant Jerusalem, and she rode on the sea beast, Rome.
God was calling His people out of her, with the Gospel, and the giving of the Holy Spirit to gentiles. He was sifting the wheat from the tares, and in AD70 he burned that chaff.
 

hobbs27

Senior Member
Also, if you read Hebrews 6, 7, and 8, and remove the added words (which are in italics) "covenant", you'll see that it is clearly talking about the priesthood coming to an end. Hebrews 8:8..."finding fault with THEM"....not the covenant, but with men....priests. As you know, the priesthood was very corrupt during Christ's time.
The restoration of all things.
 
How do we look at Jerusalem/Israel dwelling in peace forever? Is that physical or spiritual? Is it the nation with Gentiles grafted in or the Church?

Here is the passage I was thinking of earlier in the discussion of "dwelling in peace and safety forever."

Jeremiah 23:3-8
"Then I Myself will gather the remnant of My flock out of all the countries where I have driven them and bring them back to their pasture, and they will be fruitful and multiply. "I will also raise up shepherds over them and they will tend them; and they will not be afraid any longer, nor be terrified, nor will any be missing," declares the LORD. "Behold, the days are coming," declares the LORD, "When I will raise up for David a righteous Branch; And He will reign as king and act wisely And do justice and righteousness in the land. "Therefore behold, the days are coming," declares the LORD, "when they will no longer say, 'As the LORD lives, who brought up the sons of Israel from the land of Egypt,' but, 'As the LORD lives, who brought up and led back the descendants of the household of Israel from the north land and from all the countries where I had driven them.' Then they will live on their own soil."

Has this already happened? It does sound like Jews being gathered. Perhaps the scattered Jews are Gentiles.
 
A lot of the passages sound like Israel being united. The division of Israel being restored.

Amos 9:14-15
"Also I will restore the captivity of My people Israel, And they will rebuild the ruined cities and live in them; They will also plant vineyards and drink their wine, And make gardens and eat their fruit. "I will also plant them on their land, And they will not again be rooted out from their land Which I have given them," Says the LORD your God.

I know there are passages concerning Israel being a flock grazing in all of the area after the restoration. I thought I recalled a literal verse where the actual pastures with literal sheep would be restored as well. Perhaps it was concerning Israel as the sheep and Jesus as their Shepherd.
 
Thread starter #51
No, it began with Christs earthly ministry, but there were two co existing covenants until AD 70. For 40 years Jesus words, " The Gospel" led those in bondage of the old covenant law out of it, and into the Liberty in Christ...New Covenant. AD 70 was the vindication of the saints, it was the end spoken of in all prophesies.

The Harlot of Revelation was no doubt mystery Babylon, the great city, the land beast...old covenant Jerusalem, and she rode on the sea beast, Rome.
God was calling His people out of her, with the Gospel, and the giving of the Holy Spirit to gentiles. He was sifting the wheat from the tares, and in AD70 he burned that chaff.
Jesus Himself said that He did not do away with the Law, and that those who kept the Law would be great in heaven. Matthew 5:17-19 But you're saying Jesus abolished the Law????
 
Thread starter #52
A lot of the passages sound like Israel being united. The division of Israel being restored.

Amos 9:14-15
"Also I will restore the captivity of My people Israel, And they will rebuild the ruined cities and live in them; They will also plant vineyards and drink their wine, And make gardens and eat their fruit. "I will also plant them on their land, And they will not again be rooted out from their land Which I have given them," Says the LORD your God.

I know there are passages concerning Israel being a flock grazing in all of the area after the restoration. I thought I recalled a literal verse where the actual pastures with literal sheep would be restored as well. Perhaps it was concerning Israel as the sheep and Jesus as their Shepherd.
absolutely correct, Art. It was prophecied throughout the OT that he would once again restore the House of Israel, which He had scattered over the earth. He has not done that yet. Jer 31:31-33 Jesus came ONLY for the lost sheep of the House of Israel, not the house of Judah.

the House of Judah was(is) still in covenant with Him. He only divorced the House of Israel, who He loved dearly (Hosea)
 
Thread starter #53
No, it began with Christs earthly ministry, but there were two co existing covenants until AD 70. For 40 years Jesus words, " The Gospel" led those in bondage of the old covenant law out of it, and into the Liberty in Christ...New Covenant. AD 70 was the vindication of the saints, it was the end spoken of in all prophesies.

The Harlot of Revelation was no doubt mystery Babylon, the great city, the land beast...old covenant Jerusalem, and she rode on the sea beast, Rome.
God was calling His people out of her, with the Gospel, and the giving of the Holy Spirit to gentiles. He was sifting the wheat from the tares, and in AD70 he burned that chaff.
The first to be filled with the Spirit were Jews.... :)
 
Thread starter #54
Art...there's another prophecy in the OT that has not happened yet that is significant. Jer 23:7-8 The Lord says that when people are asked about the Exodus, they will no longer talk about how God delivered the people out of Egypt, but will talk about a much larger Exodus, where He brings people back to the land from all over the Earth where they were scattered. Ask anyone today, even Christians, about the Exodus, and you'll hear about Moses. :)
 

hobbs27

Senior Member
The first to be filled with the Spirit were Jews.... :)
Agreed, but not all of them. Until the end, AD 70 ,they were being called out of the Harlot. Not all of Israel was Israel, and when God was done sifting He burned the chaff.
 

hobbs27

Senior Member
absolutely correct, Art. It was prophecied throughout the OT that he would once again restore the House of Israel, which He had scattered over the earth. He has not done that yet. Jer 31:31-33 Jesus came ONLY for the lost sheep of the House of Israel, not the house of Judah.

the House of Judah was(is) still in covenant with Him. He only divorced the House of Israel, who He loved dearly (Hosea)
The Diaspora were brought into the house in Christ. Paul going out to the gentiles was bringing in the 10 northern tribes. It is fulfilled.
 
Thread starter #57
God has never once made a covenant with Gentiles....only with Israel, and it was forever. In order for a Gentile to come into covenant with God, they have to be grafted in to Israel. No such thing as a "spiritual" Israel, that is a manmade term. If a Gentile wants to enter the New Jerusalem, there is no "Gentile" gate. lol They have to be part of one of the tribes of Israel. Currently, there is only the tribe of Judah and it includes Benjamin. God will regather the other 10 lost tribes, as prophecied many places.
 
Thread starter #58
The Diaspora were brought into the house in Christ. Paul going out to the gentiles was bringing in the 10 northern tribes. It is fulfilled.
The Disaspora are still scattered across the earth. The prophecy is that they will be gathered "back to the land". We are no living in Israel. That land was promised to Abraham and his seed forever.....not America.
 
Thread starter #59
Jer 23
7 Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that they shall no more say, The LORD liveth, which brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt;

8 But, The LORD liveth, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all countries whither I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land.

No one is talking about this "Greater Exodus". They will walk across dry rivers when they return.
 

hobbs27

Senior Member
The Disaspora are still scattered across the earth. The prophecy is that they will be gathered "back to the land". We are no living in Israel. That land was promised to Abraham and his seed forever.....not America.
Galatians 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Romans 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Luke 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

I agree not America. The Kingdom in which they were brought into..the promised land to Abraham is spiritual.
 
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