Arrow flight from stand

BowanaLee

Senior Member
:huh:
Hey y'all, I'm sure this has already been answered in a previous thread, but should gravity affect my arrow flight from the stand as compared to on the ground(especially at farther distances)? My pins are set from the ground, and I was shooting from my porch at 5yards tall, and my bag was as 20 with the rangefinder. I was hitting dead on with no adjustment to my 20 yard pin.
15' isn't very high. At 20 yds it won't effect you much. Your only about a yard farther. I think the point is being lost here. When you shoot from a tree the actual distance increases but you shoot it for the horizontal distance at ground level. For instance, if you get 25 ft up a tree on a steep hill and a deer is down hill 20 yds from the base of your tree. Depending on the hill, you may shoot it with your range finder and see the line of sight or actual distance may be as much as 27 to 30 yds. You still shoot it for 20 yds or you'll hit high. Thats where angle compensating range finders come in. Yes its really 27 to 30 yds but gravity doesn't effect a downward shot as much as a horizontal shot. If the deer is down hill from where your tree comes out of the ground, you'll have to draw your line under ground to your tree. ...Get it now ?
Post # 12 by Totaloutdoorsman is correct. :pop:
 
:huh:

15' isn't very high. At 20 yds it won't effect you much. Your only about a yard farther. I think the point is being lost here. When you shoot from a tree the actual distance increases but you shoot it for the horizontal distance at ground level. For instance, if you get 25 ft up a tree on a steep hill and a deer is down hill 20 yds from the base of your tree. Depending on the hill, you may shoot it with your range finder and see the line of sight or actual distance may be as much as 27 to 30 yds. You still shoot it for 20 yds or you'll hit high. Thats where angle compensating range finders come in. Yes its really 27 to 30 yds but gravity doesn't effect a downward shot as much as a horizontal shot. If the deer is down hill from where your tree comes out of the ground, you'll have to draw your line under ground to your tree. ...Get it now ?
Post # 12 by Totaloutdoorsman is correct. :pop:
This isn't correct at all. Gravity affects all shots the same, it pulls straight down at 32 ft/s^2 regardless of whether you are shooting horizontal, up, straight down, it doesn't matter. It doesn't impact the horizontal velocity at all. 30 yards is thirty in distance is 30 yards regardless of the whether you shoot horizontally or from a stand. If you are shooting horizontally, you arrow is flying 300 fps horizontally. Gravity just causes the arrow to drop that is it, so the arrow will reach the target at 30 yards in .3 seconds. If you are aiming down at an angle from a stand, you are still shooting 30 yards along a line toward the target, and that arrow still leaves the bow at 300 fps on a line directly toward the target. Yes, the horizontal distance from the tree is shorter, but the horizontal velocity of the arrow is less. The arrow is still traveling at 300 fps in the straight line toward the target, but it is traveling less than 300 fps in the horizontally direction. It will then cove the shorter horizontal distance in essentially the same time it would cover the horizontal distance at 30 yards. The distance does to the target doesn't change.
 

2bbshot

Senior Member
I just shoot them through the ribs and go on lol. The 30 meters high made me laugh. Im not man enough for that. about 18-22 feet is my zone lol
 

BowanaLee

Senior Member
This isn't correct at all. Gravity affects all shots the same, it pulls straight down at 32 ft/s^2 regardless of whether you are shooting horizontal, up, straight down, it doesn't matter. It doesn't impact the horizontal velocity at all. 30 yards is thirty in distance is 30 yards regardless of the whether you shoot horizontally or from a stand. If you are shooting horizontally, you arrow is flying 300 fps horizontally. Gravity just causes the arrow to drop that is it, so the arrow will reach the target at 30 yards in .3 seconds. If you are aiming down at an angle from a stand, you are still shooting 30 yards along a line toward the target, and that arrow still leaves the bow at 300 fps on a line directly toward the target. Yes, the horizontal distance from the tree is shorter, but the horizontal velocity of the arrow is less. The arrow is still traveling at 300 fps in the straight line toward the target, but it is traveling less than 300 fps in the horizontally direction. It will then cove the shorter horizontal distance in essentially the same time it would cover the horizontal distance at 30 yards. The distance does to the target doesn't change.
Were talking about shooting from a tree stand. I don't know what your talking about unless your just trying to :stir:. :biggrin2:
There’s a big difference between straight line and vertical compensated range. This is of most concern to bowhunters shooting from elevated stands or in steep terrain. On steep downhill shots, aiming for a straight line range provided by a laser rangefinder will result in a high hit. This is all a matter of geometry and actual distance changes with angles and height. The industry has addressed the issue with accurate angle compensated rangefinders.
They wouldn't make these rangefinders if there wasn't a need. :huh: You use your figures and I'll use my angle compensated rangefinders, we'll see who kills the most deer. :D
 
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from a tree stand it’s not a huge issue. You run into this more with longer range rifle shooting but the same principles still apply regardless. You can say “not true” all you want but it’s physics and science. It doesn’t lie. If I’m at an angle, shooting either up or down, you have to take the angle into consideration. You will shoot high either way. Let me try and break this down Barney style for the people that don’t get it. I’m 25’ up a tree. My target is on the ground 35 yards away that I laser range (not a fancy angle compensated model{which totally eliminates this entire argument to begin with}) from my tree stand. Straight line distance is going to be greater than horizontal distance. Gravity always works the same... got it. Gravity just works in a horizontal way. The flat ground distance to my target (base of the tree I’m in to the target) is actually 28 yards. That is the range you aim for. Your arrow will hit high because gravity only affects your arrow for 28 yards. If you use your 35 yard pin you will shoot over the deer. Reference my picture please before you claim stuff isn’t true and have no knowledge of what you’re denying.
 
from a tree stand it’s not a huge issue. You run into this more with longer range rifle shooting but the same principles still apply regardless. You can say “not true” all you want but it’s physics and science. It doesn’t lie. If I’m at an angle, shooting either up or down, you have to take the angle into consideration. You will shoot high either way. Let me try and break this down Barney style for the people that don’t get it. I’m 25’ up a tree. My target is on the ground 35 yards away that I laser range (not a fancy angle compensated model{which totally eliminates this entire argument to begin with}) from my tree stand. Straight line distance is going to be greater than horizontal distance. Gravity always works the same... got it. Gravity just works in a horizontal way. The flat ground distance to my target (base of the tree I’m in to the target) is actually 28 yards. That is the range you aim for. Your arrow will hit high because gravity only affects your arrow for 28 yards. If you use your 35 yard pin you will shoot over the deer. Reference my picture please before you claim stuff isn’t true and have no knowledge of what you’re denying.
Most of us here understand the principle you're trying to explain. However, in your scenario above, the distance is more likely 33 or 34 yards horizontally, not 28, when you're only 25 feet high. Angle compensating rangefinders aren't really needed for shooting from a 20 or 25 foot stand. I test mine all the time in trees. I shoot the base of a tree...it reads 22. I shoot it at 20 feet up, it reads 21. Its just not that much of a difference for me to EVER worry about. Out west, shooting up or down canyons, sure cut yardage. Here, not so much.
 
This isn't correct at all. Gravity affects all shots the same, it pulls straight down at 32 ft/s^2 regardless of whether you are shooting horizontal, up, straight down, it doesn't matter. It doesn't impact the horizontal velocity at all. 30 yards is thirty in distance is 30 yards regardless of the whether you shoot horizontally or from a stand. If you are shooting horizontally, you arrow is flying 300 fps horizontally. Gravity just causes the arrow to drop that is it, so the arrow will reach the target at 30 yards in .3 seconds. If you are aiming down at an angle from a stand, you are still shooting 30 yards along a line toward the target, and that arrow still leaves the bow at 300 fps on a line directly toward the target. Yes, the horizontal distance from the tree is shorter, but the horizontal velocity of the arrow is less. The arrow is still traveling at 300 fps in the straight line toward the target, but it is traveling less than 300 fps in the horizontally direction. It will then cove the shorter horizontal distance in essentially the same time it would cover the horizontal distance at 30 yards. The distance does to the target doesn't change.
I believe your getting wrapped around velocity of the arrow and FPS in terms of arrow ballistics too much. Gravity affects things the same regardless. It doesn’t matter how fast your bow shoots or how long it takes to travel from your bow to the target. It’s a matter of your sights being zeroed for a set range. If my pin is zeroed for 25 yards on flat ground then my pin is compensating for the amount gravity is pulling my arrow down in order to hit where I want at 25 yards. If I’m up a tree and my target is line of sight at 30 yards but flat ground distance is 25 yards then gravity is still having the same effect over that 25 yard distance. I use my 25 yard pin and hit where I want because my arrow ballistics are zeroed at that range. If you use your 30 yard pin you will hit high because your pin is zeroed for 30 yards. It would be the same as using your 30 yard pin at a 25 yard target on flat ground.
 
Most of us here understand the principle you're trying to explain. However, in your scenario above, the distance is more likely 33 or 34 yards horizontally, not 28, when you're only 25 feet high. Angle compensating rangefinders aren't really needed for shooting from a 20 or 25 foot stand. I test mine all the time in trees. I shoot the base of a tree...it reads 22. I shoot it at 20 feet up, it reads 21. Its just not that much of a difference for me to EVER worry about. Out west, shooting up or down canyons, sure cut yardage. Here, not so much.
It was more of an exaggerated yardage to get the point across. Knocking off 1 yard from the figure wouldn’t carry as much weight. I get what you’re saying though.
 
I will do the math for everyone, since many of you are confused. If you are shooting 300 fps flat on the ground at 30 yards(90 ft), straight out, it takes the arrow .3 seconds to get to the target. The arrow is going 300 fps for 90 feet horizontally, so the math is easy. The arrow is initially not dropping, but it would be falling at 9.6 fps downward due to gravity when it hit the target. If you calculate it out, the arrow would drop 1.44 feet over that .3 seconds due to gravity. If you are in a tree stand at 15 feet, and the deer is 30 yards(90 ft) from you via a straight line, you have formed a right triangle. Therefore the distance from the bottom of the tree to the deer is 87.5 feet. You would therefore be shooting down at an angle of ~9.5 degrees below horizontal, so your horizontal velocity is now only 296 fps, not 300. Since you are aiming downward some, the arrow also now has a downward vertical velocity of 50 fps. If you divide 87.5 horizontal feet from the tree by the 296 fps horizontal velocity you now have from the stand, you get the same .3 seconds you get shooting 30 yards on flat ground with a horizontal velocity of 300 fps. This is because 30 yards in a straight line is 30 yards regardless of direction. Since the arrow was started downward at 50 fps, gravity will add another 9.6 fps of velocity to it, just like it did when you were shooting on flat ground. The average velocity would therefore be 54.8 fps downward, over the .3 seconds it takes to reach the target. 54.8 fps X .3 seconds = 16.4 feet. You are in the tree at 15 feet, which means you would have to account for a 1.4 foot drop due to gravity. This is the same 1.4 feet of drop that you get when shooting on flat ground. If you use a 20 yard pin to shoot 30 yards, you run the potential to shot low, because you are then only accounting for .64 foot of drop.

People get confused because they don't realize that gravity pulls downward at the same rate, regardless of how fas something is moving horizontally. Say four guys are standing together. One shoots a 30-06, one shoots a BB gun, one shoots a bow, and one rolls a golf ball off a table, and they all do it simultaneously. As long as they were all shot horizontally, from the same height, and on flat ground, both bullets, the arrow, and the golf ball would all hit the ground at the same time. The acceleration downward due to gravity is consistent for all of them. It has nothing to do with how fast they are going horizontally. How far they would drop is a function of time only. The arrow from a fast bow will "drop" less than one from a slower bow, only because it is in the air for a shorter period of time.
 

j_seph

Senior Member
Just drew this right quick, height on left is in feet all others is in yards 3 foot to a yard
 

Attachments

You guys are making this way too complicated. All you have to do is fletch your arrows with a lot of helical, and then you don't have to worry about gravity.

Look, I sketched it all out for you guys....Real world right here!
 

Attachments

You guys are making this way too complicated. All you have to do is fletch your arrows with a lot of helical, and then you don't have to worry about gravity.

Look, I sketched it all out for you guys....Real world right here!
:rofl:

I know this, I suck at math but I've killed a pile of deer.
 

j_seph

Senior Member
You guys are making this way too complicated. All you have to do is fletch your arrows with a lot of helical, and then you don't have to worry about gravity.

Look, I sketched it all out for you guys....Real world right here!
At that angle you just gut shot that Whitetail Moose



p.s. you forgot to sketch the High Fence on there:whip:
 

j_seph

Senior Member
I will do the math for everyone, since many of you are confused. If you are shooting 300 fps flat on the ground at 30 yards(90 ft), straight out, it takes the arrow .3 seconds to get to the target. The arrow is going 300 fps for 90 feet horizontally, so the math is easy. The arrow is initially not dropping, but it would be falling at 9.6 fps downward due to gravity when it hit the target. If you calculate it out, the arrow would drop 1.44 feet over that .3 seconds due to gravity. If you are in a tree stand at 15 feet, and the deer is 30 yards(90 ft) from you via a straight line, you have formed a right triangle. Therefore the distance from the bottom of the tree to the deer is 87.5 feet. You would therefore be shooting down at an angle of ~9.5 degrees below horizontal, so your horizontal velocity is now only 296 fps, not 300. Since you are aiming downward some, the arrow also now has a downward vertical velocity of 50 fps. If you divide 87.5 horizontal feet from the tree by the 296 fps horizontal velocity you now have from the stand, you get the same .3 seconds you get shooting 30 yards on flat ground with a horizontal velocity of 300 fps. This is because 30 yards in a straight line is 30 yards regardless of direction. Since the arrow was started downward at 50 fps, gravity will add another 9.6 fps of velocity to it, just like it did when you were shooting on flat ground. The average velocity would therefore be 54.8 fps downward, over the .3 seconds it takes to reach the target. 54.8 fps X .3 seconds = 16.4 feet. You are in the tree at 15 feet, which means you would have to account for a 1.4 foot drop due to gravity. This is the same 1.4 feet of drop that you get when shooting on flat ground. If you use a 20 yard pin to shoot 30 yards, you run the potential to shot low, because you are then only accounting for .64 foot of drop.

People get confused because they don't realize that gravity pulls downward at the same rate, regardless of how fas something is moving horizontally. Say four guys are standing together. One shoots a 30-06, one shoots a BB gun, one shoots a bow, and one rolls a golf ball off a table, and they all do it simultaneously. As long as they were all shot horizontally, from the same height, and on flat ground, both bullets, the arrow, and the golf ball would all hit the ground at the same time. The acceleration downward due to gravity is consistent for all of them. It has nothing to do with how fast they are going horizontally. How far they would drop is a function of time only. The arrow from a fast bow will "drop" less than one from a slower bow, only because it is in the air for a shorter period of time.
Wrong!
 
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