Assurance of Salvation

[barryl]

?????????

Another thread where most have no clue what they are talking about. The spiritual ignorance in this country amazes me![/QUOTE?????????????? Clarify, if you are gonna start it, you might as well finish it]

 

[barryl]

Present

Where are the fundamental, KJV-only Baptists when you need them?[/QUOTERight here CP,]

 

[centerpin fan]

Right here CP,

I know. I was just teasing Woodsman.

You still gotta work on that quote function.

 

[barryl]

This thread was started to get you to take that old pointing finger to turn it and point it to your own CHEST {self examination} Ref. post #1, #48. Romans 3:4, Matt. 23:24

 

[gtparts]

I'll post this for rj and others who seem to have questions regarding the SBC and the theological positions that should be integral to the local church bodies that seek to affiliate with the Convention. Such conformity was sought and initiated to synergize the evangelistic and missionary efforts of the member churches by the implementation of a program, the Cooperative Program.

And, btw, it is the Baptist Faith and Message. In sixty plus years, I've never heard it referred to as a "confession", as it makes no sense for any confession other than that of the individual.

http://www.sbc.net/bfm/bfm2000.asp

It should be noted that, from time to time as seemed necessary, the Convention has appointed a committee to revisit the document in order to make recommendations of amending it to better convey with clarity the core beliefs. The last revision was June 4, 2000.

 

[centerpin fan]

This thread was started to get you to take that old pointing finger to turn it and point it to your own CHEST {self examination}

I do!

"Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?"

-- 2 Cor 13:5

 

[rjcruiser]

Here's a quick lesson on quoting. Minus the x

[xquote=nameofpersonyou'requoting]stuff you're quoting[x/quote]

If only the SBC held to the Baptist Confession of Faith.

I said that Baptists believe in perseverance of the saints, but no Baptist confession uses the phrase “once saved, always saved,” or anything close. No Baptist confession is unaware that there are “mere professors” among those who are elect and will persevere.

From this link:

http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/do-baptists-believe-once-saved-always-saved

Perseverance of the saints and OSAS is the same thing.


You should read the Baptist Confession of 1689.

http://www.grbc.net/about_us/1689.php

Look at the section on Free Will to...might surprise ya.

I'll post this for rj and others who seem to have questions regarding the SBC and the theological positions that should be integral to the local church bodies that seek to affiliate with the Convention. Such conformity was sought and initiated to synergize the evangelistic and missionary efforts of the member churches by the implementation of a program, the Cooperative Program.

And, btw, it is the Baptist Faith and Message. In sixty plus years, I've never heard it referred to as a "confession", as it makes no sense for any confession other than that of the individual.

http://www.sbc.net/bfm/bfm2000.asp

It should be noted that, from time to time as seemed necessary, the Convention has appointed a committee to revisit the document in order to make recommendations of amending it to better convey with clarity the core beliefs. The last revision was June 4, 2000.

What is taught in the churches is a direct reflection of what is taught in the seminaries. What is taught in the seminaries is a direct reflection of the leadership of the convention.

Fortunately, I think that the leadership is wanting to get back to its roots (ie the confession of 1689) and it is flowing through the seminaries and slowly flowing down to the SBC churches.

 

[gtparts]

I'm kind-of a "fence sitter" on this topic for a few reasons. For one, as you stated above, I will never stop loving my kids. The father relationship is constantly used in the Bible to describe God's view of man. How can we ever not be "his?" But, this also opens the door to wondering, then, how so many get tossed away in the end.

I would never turn my back on my children either but since they have free will, they could turn their back on me. I would willingly take them back later on, no matter what they had done in their past. I would forgive them. I would never force them to love me.

JB, there seems to be a lack of understanding concerning His human creations and those adopted into His family by faith.

There are many people who do not qualify as His "children". The NT makes it clear that every human has either God as their Father or Satan as their Father. Fence-straddling is not an option, according to Scripture. God's covenant is with His children, only. Those who are not in covenant relationship with God, through Christ, are not His children and as lost as Cooter Brown.

 

[Artfuldodger]

The 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith
Chapter 9: Free Will
9.1 God has provided the human will by nature with liberty and power to act upon choice; it is neither forced, nor determined by any intrinsic necessity to do good or evil. [1]

Matthew 17:12 James 1:14 Deuteronomy 30:19
9.2 In his state of innocence, Adam had freedom and power to will and to do what was good and well-pleasing to God; [1] but he was unstable so that he might fall from this condition. [2]

Ecclesiastes 7:29
Genesis 3:6
9.3 The human race through the fall into a state of sin, has completely lost all ability of will to perform any spiritual good accompanying salvation. In our natural state we are altogether opposed to spiritual good and dead in sin; we are not able, by our own strength, to convert ourselves, or even to prepare ourselves for conversion. [1]

I'm neither Baptist nor Southern Baptist but doesn't 9.1 & 9.3 contradict each other?

 

[JB0704]

Fence-straddling is not an option, according to Scripture. God's covenant is with His children, only. Those who are not in covenant relationship with God, through Christ, are not His children and as lost as Cooter Brown.

Thanks for your comments, GT. When I say "fence sitting" I only mean confused. I'm not trying to take both sides.

I have almost always believed OSAS until I began reading all the comments on this forum. Then, it occurred to me that there are sound points in either direction. I am not claiming either position until I understand the truth.

 

[rjcruiser]

The 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith
Chapter 9: Free Will
9.1 God has provided the human will by nature with liberty and power to act upon choice; it is neither forced, nor determined by any intrinsic necessity to do good or evil. [1]

Matthew 17:12 James 1:14 Deuteronomy 30:19
9.2 In his state of innocence, Adam had freedom and power to will and to do what was good and well-pleasing to God; [1] but he was unstable so that he might fall from this condition. [2]

Ecclesiastes 7:29
Genesis 3:6
9.3 The human race through the fall into a state of sin, has completely lost all ability of will to perform any spiritual good accompanying salvation. In our natural state we are altogether opposed to spiritual good and dead in sin; we are not able, by our own strength, to convert ourselves, or even to prepare ourselves for conversion. [1]

I'm neither Baptist nor Southern Baptist but doesn't 9.1 & 9.3 contradict each other?

Nope.

9.1 deals with pre-fall.

9.3 deals with post-fall.

 

[Ronnie T]

Except for all the rules & regs y'all require to maintain your salvation, yeah...Lordship Salvation.

What greater salvation than Jesus as my Lord?

Cheap grace? gimme, gimme, gimme, gimme

.

 

[Ronnie T]

Here's a quick lesson on quoting. Minus the x

[xquote=nameofpersonyou'requoting]stuff you're quoting[x/quote]

Perseverance of the saints and OSAS is the same thing.

You should read the Baptist Confession of 1689.

http://www.grbc.net/about_us/1689.php

Look at the section on Free Will to...might surprise ya.


What is taught in the churches is a direct reflection of what is taught in the seminaries. What is taught in the seminaries is a direct reflection of the leadership of the convention.

Fortunately, I think that the leadership is wanting to get back to its roots (ie the confession of 1689) and it is flowing through the seminaries and slowly flowing down to the SBC churches.

I couldn't agree more with the above.

 

[rjcruiser]

I couldn't agree more with the above.

RonnieT...for some reason, I think you and I are much closer on the issues than what we write on here. At times, we're right on right on with eachother, then others, I'm left scratching my head. I think it is probably more the lack of ability to get a message across clearly over an internet forum message board.

Hope y'all have a great weekend and a wonderful Lord's Day on Sunday.

 

[Ronnie T]

RonnieT...for some reason, I think you and I are much closer on the issues than what we write on here. At times, we're right on right on with eachother, then others, I'm left scratching my head. I think it is probably more the lack of ability to get a message across clearly over an internet forum message board.

Hope y'all have a great weekend and a wonderful Lord's Day on Sunday.

I bet you're right.
Same to you brother.

.

 

[barryl]

Testify

I have noticed that only 1 or 2 have commented pertaining to Post #48, its being avoided like the plague. Matt. 10 :33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

 

[Artfuldodger]

Nope.

9.1 deals with pre-fall.

9.3 deals with post-fall.

I just read all three verses dealing with section 9.1 from the 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith and they all pertained to man having free will after the fall.
Matthew 17:12; James 1:14; Deuteronomy 30:19

I do think early Baptist were Calvinist and to some extent still are. The Baptist belief of OSAS is part of that holdover.
When it really comes down to it, very few people are total believers of free will. Some people believe we have, for the most part free will but God can intervene. This is where I would fall. Others believe we have no free will. Some people believe we are saved and that there is nothing you can do to lose salvation. Most of these people don't believe in free will. Others believe we are saved by grace, it's still God's ultimate choice/gift but since we have free will we can give the gift back, our choice. I fall into this group, and we think it odd that God would demand our love. I don't see how you can believe in free will & OSAS at the same time.
The third group of believers think we have free will but God already knows our free will choices before we even make them. He knew before you were even born what you would do today and on what day you will become a Christian if at all. He knows all this but doesn't control it. To me the last version seems impossible. I would believe in predestination before I believed in that version.

 

[Artfuldodger]

From the top, Do you trust in the FINISHED work of the Lord Jesus Christ ? Before you answer,take a few minutes to study the doctrines of Salvation{Soteriology} Adoption{changed position}, Regeneration { a changed nature},Justification {a changed standing}, sanctification{a changed character}, Imputation{sinner is charged with Christ's righteousness and Jesus Christ is charged with his sins}. If you ever get hold of these things you will never doubt your salvation. You will know the difference between a charasmatic experience or feeling and Bible regeneration. You will know when a man is lying to you when he is quoting the Scripture or when a man is trying to decieve you by quoting Scripture. Work of Righteuosness Isaiah 32:17 KJV 1611 AV Do you trust Gods perfect righteuosness, The Lord Jesus Christ, or are you trusting your own selfrighteousness ? Only two knows, you and God !! Its been mentioned earlier that assurance does'nt mean much to God, go ask him, I believe you will find out whether it does or not !! Now go and get alone with God, get it worked out with him and his son 2 Cor. 5:21 KJV 1611 AV You can know ! Knowing will make you an effective witness for Christ !!!![/QUOTE

It will take most people more that a few minutes to study those doctrines. If you consider those and other doctrines such as dispensationalism with the various beliefs about eschatology, end times, the rapture, and millennial ism, pre-isms, etc.
To be honest, I haven't did a lot of deep Bible study over the years and I don't think most people have. This is not to say the people on this forum haven't, they have did a lot of Bible study. We can all use more studying about the Bible. The more I learn the more I realize I don't know. I don't believe the Bible verse about having the faith of a child means we should abandon our study of the bible.

 

[StriperAddict]

Some people believe we are saved and that there is nothing you can do to lose salvation. Most of these people don't believe in free will.

There are some who trust in the sufficency of the cross and ressurection for the eradication of the Adamic/Sin Nature, but who also know moment by moment where the power of sin comes from (our unredeemed bodies, see Rom 7 again), and who realise they have the choice (will): to yield to the power of the Spirit or yield to the temptation/ sinful thought.
Consider: If the sinful thought originates from "the members of your body" then you have the power of the living Lord/Christ IN you to take authority over it,
but if you believe YOU are the originator of that sinful thought (in other words you believe you are dual natured, "good/evil") then you have NO authority and power against it, and you might as well believe you can slide the slippery slope of loosing what Christ has done: and that is made you holy, blameless, redeemed, child of God, brother of Christ, bond Servant... a New Creation.

So to answer your quote, Yes, I believe I am saved and can never loose what Christ has done,
and daily I must come and yield my members to righteousness (act of the will), by choice, when the power of sin comes against me.
Peace

 

[Mako22]

My assurance of salvation has nothing to do with how I feel on any given day or what silly post someone puts on this forum. My assurance that I am saved forever rest entirely in the word of God, I have God's word on it and that is good enough for me.