Atheism Has A Suicide Problem

I just read about the Council of Nicea yesterday. Turns out there were different sects of Christianity who were actually physically warring with each other so Nicea kind of put a big bow on Christianity and made it a finished, authorized product. The emperor (Constantine?) couldn't abide by all the chaos so he had to do something. Entire gospels were dropped completely or added - many recently written (thus centuries after Jesus' lifetime!) not just found behind a filing cabinet. Side-note I can see how oral stories & myths from the old testament can contradict each other. Thousands of years & many hundreds (or thousands) of miles of distance apart means stories passed along will never be accurate or in synch. That's just a lot of data to examine for plot holes or continuity or whatever, with evidence long gone. But when the main new testament gospels from disciples (Matthew, John, etc) who were part of the same small group WHEN JESUS WAS IN THE FINAL MONTHS OF HIS MINISTRY not all that long ago BTW contradict each other or completely ignore some events or get major details wrong it sounds....I hate to say it but....made up. Thus inaccuracy in the OT is expected. In the NT society & technology was a little more sophisticated, so the bar for accuracy should be set quite a bit higher. Just my 2 cents
I'd venture to say that most believers have no idea of how their religion came to be.
 

WaltL1

Senior Member
I just read about the Council of Nicea yesterday. Turns out there were different sects of Christianity who were actually physically warring with each other so Nicea kind of put a big bow on Christianity and made it a finished, authorized product. The emperor (Constantine?) couldn't abide by all the chaos so he had to do something. Entire gospels were dropped completely or added - many recently written (thus centuries after Jesus' lifetime!) not just found behind a filing cabinet. Side-note I can see how oral stories & myths from the old testament can contradict each other. Thousands of years & many hundreds (or thousands) of miles of distance apart means stories passed along will never be accurate or in synch. That's just a lot of data to examine for plot holes or continuity or whatever, with evidence long gone. But when the main new testament gospels from disciples (Matthew, John, etc) who were part of the same small group WHEN JESUS WAS IN THE FINAL MONTHS OF HIS MINISTRY not all that long ago BTW contradict each other or completely ignore some events or get major details wrong it sounds....I hate to say it but....made up. Thus inaccuracy in the OT is expected. In the NT society & technology was a little more sophisticated, so the bar for accuracy should be set quite a bit higher. Just my 2 cents
I just read about the Council of Nicea yesterday. Turns out there were different sects of Christianity who were actually physically warring with each other so Nicea kind of put a big bow on Christianity and made it a finished, authorized product.
Interesting isn't it?
MEN decided through arguing, bartering and voting on what the Word of God is and is not. Who's writings were inspired by God and who's wasn't.
What story should be told and what shouldn't......
Yeah and Ive got some beach front property in Kansas I'll sell ya.
 

Spotlite

Senior Member
I am trying expound on the initial simple one now.
When I was a christian, I didn't want to try to explain it either. Truth is you cannot without stepping on the toes of christianity.
They are individuals at times, one at times, human or spirits...and all depend upon what excuse (that totally contradicts the others) needs to fit at the time.
Christianity is a monotheistic religion by name at convenience.
To expound on the simple yes as for one God - ok.

But saying that Christianity is a monotheistic religion by name at convenience is an indicator that you may not understand the difference between "Christianity", "denomination", and "doctrine".
Christianity - Abrahamic monotheistic religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus......there is only one God.
Denomination - a distinct religious body within Christianity.
Doctrine - in short, beliefs that each denomination teach.

There are many denominations in Christianity that teach different doctrines at many levels including "trinity" or the "manifestations of God". I don't knock any of them because regardless of how they understand or teach it, their belief is not teaching more than one God.
 
To expound on the simple yes as for one God - ok.

But saying that Christianity is a monotheistic religion by name at convenience is an indicator that you may not understand the difference between "Christianity", "denomination", and "doctrine".
Christianity - Abrahamic monotheistic religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus......there is only one God.
Denomination - a distinct religious body within Christianity.
Doctrine - in short, beliefs that each denomination teach.

There are many denominations in Christianity that teach different doctrines at many levels including "trinity" or the "manifestations of God". I don't knock any of them because regardless of how they understand or teach it, their belief is not teaching more than one God.
Explain how there was a god in heaven who had a Son and they are one entity.
God is worshipped and the Son is worshipped. You have different prayers for each.

I have a great understanding of it all, I am curious as to how individuals can explain it for themselves.

They are one, they are separate as needed.
 
Explain how there was a god in heaven who had a Son and they are one entity.
God is worshipped and the Son is worshipped. You have different prayers for each.

I have a great understanding of it all, I am curious as to how individuals can explain it for themselves.

They are one, they are separate as needed.
How can someone be seated at the right hand of themself?
 

WaltL1

Senior Member
To expound on the simple yes as for one God - ok.

But saying that Christianity is a monotheistic religion by name at convenience is an indicator that you may not understand the difference between "Christianity", "denomination", and "doctrine".
Christianity - Abrahamic monotheistic religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus......there is only one God.
Denomination - a distinct religious body within Christianity.
Doctrine - in short, beliefs that each denomination teach.

There are many denominations in Christianity that teach different doctrines at many levels including "trinity" or the "manifestations of God". I don't knock any of them because regardless of how they understand or teach it, their belief is not teaching more than one God.
Go back to the beginning. Before many denominations and doctrines.
Polytheism was the norm not monotheism.
If you were trying to end their beliefs and swing them over to your side, which would you pick?
1. You are wrong. Polytheism is wrong. You might believe in polytheism with all your heart but you're just wrong.
2. You are really only half wrong. Our god is only one but theres three different ones so its just like what you already believe but a bit different.
Kind of convenient that one god is three aint it?
 

Spotlite

Senior Member
Explain how there was a god in heaven who had a Son and they are one entity.
God is worshipped and the Son is worshipped. You have different prayers for each.

I have a great understanding of it all, I am curious as to how individuals can explain it for themselves.

They are one, they are separate as needed.
No different prayers - its one Godhead. If you say Jesus, Father, God, you are addressing the one Godhead. At least for me.

God is a spirit. Spirit has no flesh and bones. God was manifest in the flesh. The spirit dwells within flesh here on earth (Jesus). The spirit dwells within multitudes of people today.
 

Spotlite

Senior Member
Go back to the beginning. Before many denominations and doctrines.
Polytheism was the norm not monotheism.
If you were trying to end their beliefs and swing them over to your side, which would you pick?
1. You are wrong. Polytheism is wrong. You might believe in polytheism with all your heart but you're just wrong.
2. You are really only half wrong. Our god is only one but theres three different ones so its just like what you already believe but a bit different.
Kind of convenient that one god is three aint it?
To be honest, I have not ran into anyone that believes in more than one God, especially if they have an interest in the Bible.

Those that are not interested seem to be the ones that think when people use the word "trinity", Jesus, Father, Son, etc., that it means more than one God.
 

ky55

Senior Member
Go back to the beginning. Before many denominations and doctrines.
Polytheism was the norm not monotheism.
If you were trying to end their beliefs and swing them over to your side, which would you pick?
1. You are wrong. Polytheism is wrong. You might believe in polytheism with all your heart but you're just wrong.
2. You are really only half wrong. Our god is only one but theres three different ones so its just like what you already believe but a bit different.
Kind of convenient that one god is three aint it?
Bart Ehrman did a lecture on the transition from polytheism to monotheism.
It’s one of his numbered lectures in a series.

*
 
How can someone be seated at the right hand of themself?
Atlas, I am curious to that myself.
I appreciate that Spotlite is at least willing to engage so far.
The rest do not seem to want to touch it directly.
 
To be honest, I have not ran into anyone that believes in more than one God, especially if they have an interest in the Bible.

Those that are not interested seem to be the ones that think when people use the word "trinity", Jesus, Father, Son, etc., that it means more than one God.
You seem to want to use non defined definitions that go against what the actual definition means

Trinity=3
 

Spotlite

Senior Member
You seem to want to use non defined definitions that go against what the actual definition means

Trinity=3
This is what you wanted to know.

[I want to know how many gods are worshipped in Christianity.]
I said one God.


I have not ran into anyone that believes in more than one God, especially if they have an interest in the Bible.

Those that are not interested seem to be the ones that think when people use the word "trinity", Jesus, Father, Son, etc., that it means more than one God.
This right here still says one God. It also says those that are not interested in the bible seem the ones that think the trinity doctrine means more than one God...............pretty accurate. It just seems that way most of the time anyway.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity

"The Christian doctrine of the Trinity holds that God is one but three coeternal consubstantial persons —the Father, the Son (Jesus Christ), and the Holy Spirit—as "one God in three Divine Persons".
 
This is what you wanted to know.

[I want to know how many gods are worshipped in Christianity.]
I said one God.



This right here still says one God. It also says those that are not interested in the bible seem the ones that think the trinity doctrine means more than one God...............pretty accurate. It just seems that way most of the time anyway.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity

"The Christian doctrine of the Trinity holds that God is one but three coeternal consubstantial persons —the Father, the Son (Jesus Christ), and the Holy Spirit—as "one God in three Divine Persons".
So how does one go about sitting at the right hand of oneself?
When Jesus was dead, who was running the show?
When Jesus was on the cross and looking up, who was he talking to?
 
This is what you wanted to know.

[I want to know how many gods are worshipped in Christianity.]
I said one God.



This right here still says one God. It also says those that are not interested in the bible seem the ones that think the trinity doctrine means more than one God...............pretty accurate. It just seems that way most of the time anyway.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity

"The Christian doctrine of the Trinity holds that God is one but three coeternal consubstantial persons —the Father, the Son (Jesus Christ), and the Holy Spirit—as "one God in three Divine Persons".
Oh so three divine persons make up One god. Three equals one.
Without one of those God ceases to exist?
 

Spotlite

Senior Member
So how does one go about sitting at the right hand of oneself?
When Jesus was dead, who was running the show?
When Jesus was on the cross and looking up, who was he talking to?
God is a spirit.
Oh so three divine persons make up One god. Three equals one.
Without one of those God ceases to exist?
God would still be a spirit.
 
God is a spirit.

God would still be a spirit.
Spirit, human, ghost, ...all separate entities. Declaring one as a spirit doesn't eliminate it as counting towards one of the three.

If one is on a cross talking out loud to another it has to mean they are not together.
Wouldn't Jesus think it and also hear it if he was talking to himself? No need to call out to Father if you are the Father.
 

Israel

Senior Member
Why would a spirit god need to clone himself and call himself Son if it wa the same entity?
He didn't.

We do.
We need all He does.
We are creature.
 

Spotlite

Senior Member
Spirit, human, ghost, ...all separate entities. Declaring one as a spirit doesn't eliminate it as counting towards one of the three.
If one is on a cross talking out loud to another it has to mean they are not together.
Wouldn't Jesus think it and also hear it if he was talking to himself? No need to call out to Father if you are the Father.
They’re connected in spirit. Without researching a little, I don’t know if there is any significance or not concerning the idea that he could have just thought it instead of speaking it. Good question though. The spirit dwells in us. Same spirit that raised Jesus will raise us. For believers, we believe we are all one body in Christ, through the spirit. Killing one of us doesn’t kill the body. Killing Jesus doesn’t kill the Godhead.


Why would a spirit god need to clone himself and call himself Son if it was the same entity?
How wold you sacrifice a spirit? Remember this was supposed to be a way to end that for the Jews. It was for mans benefit.
 
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