gemcgrew
Senior Member
I didn't spend a second coming up with it. The article came to me, but thanks for expressing your feelings.
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bullethead
Of the hard cast variety
No problem, thank you for sharing the article with us. It provided the perfect situations, mistakes, and reasons for why checking and rechecking sources works so well, and going with feelings does not.I didn't spend a second coming up with it. The article came to me, but thanks for expressing your feelings.
Spotlite
Resident Homesteader
Hindsight is 20/20.......
bullethead
Of the hard cast variety
Yes, it is a good thing to be able to look back and see what did or did not happen and explain why.
gemcgrew
Senior Member
And checking and rechecking sources works so well, they would still be doing it, had truth not appeared.
bullethead
Of the hard cast variety
Incorrect. The article clearly states that they never bothered to check sources. All they had to do was was look at prior land and archeological maps and they would have seen that the stones were not there 20 years prior. Previous satellite pics would have confirmed no circle existed on that spot. Instead somebody got excited over some rocks and made up their own stories and went with their feelings instead of using the scientific process. Feelings over Fact failed again. They bypassed the method and this is what happens. A more perfect example could not have found you.
bullethead
Of the hard cast variety
The article you linked to was very vague. It did not tell what processes they took or did not take in order to verify the formation. I researched it more. I found another article (a few more actually) that included more details on how and why the local ancient site hunters failed to check available sources, and how that contributed to their error. They did not follow procedure and instead went with their feelings. And in fact, did not do what you elude to above. They didn't bother to check a source let alone multiple sources. They let their feelings fuel their imaginations instead of using evidence.
SemperFiDawg
Political Forum Arbiter of Truth (And Lies Too)
That's just the front end and only fraction of the marketing. On the back end most don't see what they spend enticing hospitals and doctors.
SemperFiDawg
Political Forum Arbiter of Truth (And Lies Too)
I read the first link. The author himself makes it clear he took a scripture out of context as a prophecy. I fail to see how one verse which is clearly NOT a prophetic verse, again by the author's own admission, can be labeled" unfulfilled" and thus a dis-qualifier. However, you can color me unsurprised by your interpretation.
bullethead
Of the hard cast variety
Well it's not my interpretation. I have now given multiple sources that break it down better than I can explain it, and there are more out there.
Bottom line is that Jesus was fulfill OT prophecy. He flat out did not. And they point that out. The fact that he died disqualified him.
SemperFiDawg
Political Forum Arbiter of Truth (And Lies Too)
Right. Anyone with even a adolescent understanding of the Gospel would tell you that his atoning death not only fulfilled prophecy but along with the resurrection, is the hinge on which all of Christianity hangs. This being the case I can certainly understand why Anti-Christians would want to debunk it, but to state "the fact that he died disqualified him" is beyond silly. Again, color me unsurprised, but quiet amused.
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bullethead
Of the hard cast variety
The NT is the problem and why adolescents fall for it.
It was written in order to work in Jesus as messiah. Change the rules if you will because Jesus did not fulfill the OT rules. The OT rules are very simple. There is a reason why the Jews that lived among Jesus who was a Jew didn't buy it and it's the same reasons they do not buy it now. He did not fulfill the prophesy. Period.
I have posted the requirements and why Jesus did not fulfill them. I really do not care that you choose to overlook them. His fulfillments are not still coming or will happen. They did not happen during his lifetime and that disqualifies him.
Spotlite
Resident Homesteader
Very true. And another way of considering it is that many may find themselves doing that a little too late.
WaltL1
Senior Member
Jesus fulfilling prophecy is the hinge that Christianity hangs on.
Jesus not fulfilling prophecy disqualified him with the Jews.
Sounds like your beef is with the Jews not A/As.
Spotlite
Resident Homesteader
You have to remember that the Jews established the criteria of a messiah they will recognize, the A/A’s demand that he play on their terms or else......
bullethead
Of the hard cast variety
I don't have any terms. I am using what is said in the OT.
Personally, I don't believe in a messiah as told in the OT ever happening mainly because the OT is nothing more than the folklore of the tales of a cuture. But, since we have to go by what is in the OT as to what qualifies a person to become the messiah and according to those rules Jesus does not meet those requirements.
It has nothing to do with the future. It has to do with what the person accomplishes in his lifetime. If Jesus actually did it, every Jew would be his follower. It really is the Jews terms and since Jesus was Jewish he must adhere to their rules.
The NT is Paul's attempt at creating a messiah and while knowing what the OT required he could not make the case for the Jews to go for it, so he created his own religion around a man.
SemperFiDawg
Political Forum Arbiter of Truth (And Lies Too)
Uhhhh, far be it from me to point out the obvious, but it’s common knowledge the Church started in Israel, which was the Jewish homeland..........you know, where Jews actually made up the majority and were the first converts.
SemperFiDawg
Political Forum Arbiter of Truth (And Lies Too)
Walt. I’m disappointed that you picked this point to debate. Please see above.
bullethead
Of the hard cast variety
Oh yeah?, Tell me about what the common knowledge says about when.
There were always, ALWAYS Jews worshipping something , some body, or some bodies else. Always splinter sects. Always. The vast majority were Torah following Judaism Jews.
You are arguing the equivalent of the Mormons validity within the USA and within Christianity because the First Mormon Church was started here where the most Christians exist and while not the biggest, its growing and will happen to be the biggest...like your prophecies.....it just hasn't happened yet, but wait...you'llllllllll seeeeee.
Within Christianity you have 40,000 splits from that "Original Church". And all think the other 39,999 are wrong.
That was no different than the Jews back then.
Jesus was there to preach what will happen if the Torah wasn't followed. Not there to create a religion.
That happened after he was dead.
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WaltL1
Senior Member
Im not debating so don't be disappointed.
One of those statements is yours and I agree with it.
The other is a statement of fact that Jews don't believe Jesus met their criteria.
As an A/A, I don't have any requirements for him to meet or not meet.
