Borg Warner T15 Help

[flatfoot]

I need advice from someone with an intimate knowledge of the Borg Warner T15 3 speed used in old Jeeps. I have one that is jumping out of reverse, literally pushing back against the shifter. It was rebuilt (blocking rings and bearings) by someone else for the very same reason. It appears to have excessive end play but from what I have found it is not adjustable. Detailed Service info is limited to say the least. Internet searches are all over the place. The teeth on the slider and reverse gear are worn but I am not convinced that this is the problem. I don't know it all but I am not a dummy either. I have been through a few different modern manuals with similar wear with no issues. The T-15 is new to me and I don't know what will fly and what will not. I welcome all advice!

Thanks in advance!

 

[beretta]

I need advice from someone with an intimate knowledge of the Borg Warner T15 3 speed used in old Jeeps. I have one that is jumping out of reverse, literally pushing back against the shifter. It was rebuilt (blocking rings and bearings) by someone else for the very same reason. It appears to have excessive end play but from what I have found it is not adjustable. Detailed Service info is limited to say the least. Internet searches are all over the place. The teeth on the slider and reverse gear are worn but I am not convinced that this is the problem. I don't know it all but I am not a dummy either. I have been through a few different modern manuals with similar wear with no issues. The T-15 is new to me and I don't know what will fly and what will not. I welcome all advice!

Thanks in advance!

Could be bent shift fork. You can check this by shifting into reverse and then removing the shifter tower and look at the position of the reverse gear. Also may have worn out shaft bushings. So when you apply torque to the gears it moves the whole gear train.

 

[flatfoot]

Thanks, I will take a closer look at that.

 

[transfixer]

I need advice from someone with an intimate knowledge of the Borg Warner T15 3 speed used in old Jeeps. I have one that is jumping out of reverse, literally pushing back against the shifter. It was rebuilt (blocking rings and bearings) by someone else for the very same reason. It appears to have excessive end play but from what I have found it is not adjustable. Detailed Service info is limited to say the least. Internet searches are all over the place. The teeth on the slider and reverse gear are worn but I am not convinced that this is the problem. I don't know it all but I am not a dummy either. I have been through a few different modern manuals with similar wear with no issues. The T-15 is new to me and I don't know what will fly and what will not. I welcome all advice!

Thanks in advance!

If it is pushing back out of reverse then the teeth are definitely worn, the engagement teeth of the gear should be wider at the leading edge and narrower close to the gear, , also on the inside of the slider , wider at the edge than further in, when they get worn down the opposite way, the slider pushes itself back off of the gear.

A worn shift fork won't cause it to push back out of gear, it will only cause failure to engage fully, if end play is excessive then that is a sign that there is significant wear somewhere along the mainshaft assembly or in the front or rear bearing on the mainshaft. Sometimes the front bearing retainer will get a groove worn into it from the bearing spinning,

Its been a while since I've worked on one of those, but I've been doing standards and automatics for over 30yrs,

 

[flatfoot]

I will definitely take a closer look at the shape of the teeth in that respect. They have the normal wear one side (the leaning peak of the house look) from engaging but I did not look at the width.
Thanks Transfixer!

 

[au7126]

Not jumping out of any other gear? Second gear when let off gas? Most problems I solved with elimination of end play. Grip output shaft with vise vise grips and in and out for motion. Shim rear bearing with shim stock to eliminate and if jumping out of second gear do the same with front input bearing.
Similar problems with early GM three speeds .

 

[flatfoot]

My plan is to locate a new slider and gear and shim up the end play while I'm in there. This is a side project so it may take a while. I will let y'all know how it turns out.

 

[flatfoot]

Ok, I finally got this thing out. It looks as if the excessive end play was caused by the rear bearing adapter moving back and forth, or the rear bearing moving inside the adapter. I plan to take it apart tomorrow but I am not sure where / how to shim it. Without the transfer case attached, the same movement is way worse because there is nothing to stop the bearing adapter from sliding out of the case.

This is a simple trans but I feel that I am trying to figure out someone else mistake. Service info is spotty at best.

Transfixer, do you know if the end play is adjusted on the front end or back end of this thing?

 

[transfixer]

Normally end play is adjusted on the front end of the unit, either shimmed where the output shaft joins the input shaft, or in front of the main bearing at the front of the unit, I'll see if I can dig up some tech on the T15, if I can I'll let you know.

 

[transfixer]

Quadratec.com has a good exploded view of the unit on their site, after looking at that and refreshing my memory of the unit, it doesn't use selective shims evidently, not uncommon in older units, I would look at the rear housing that bolts up against the main case of the unit, see if the bearing has spun/worn into the rear housing ? that would allow the bearing to move backwards when it shouldn't, but normally on older units its the bearing itself that is causing the movement, you won't know till you get it apart, but if the inner part of the bearing moves back and forth, thats where your clearance issue is. pretty common on the ball bearing type main bearings,

If I were to take a wild guess, based on my experience, I would replace the reverse gear ( on the mainshaft) and also the slider that runs between 1st and Rev, where that slider contacts the Rev gear is normally what caused it to jump out of gear.

 

[SwampMoss]

Have you asked around on JeepForum.com? You might be able to get some good info from the jeepers.

 

[flatfoot]

I haven't checked the keep forums yet. I took it apart today. The ball bearings are great, no movement from them. I installed a different reverse gear and slider that the owner brought to me. Not new but better than what came out. Now I have to wait for him to get a front bearing retainer. Found a crack when cleaning, not the cause of my problem but I don't want a comeback. I will give an update when I get it back together.

 

[flatfoot]

Ok, I am keeping my fingers crossed and praying that I am not posting this prematurely.

I put it back together with a better used reverse gear and slider. I didn't change anything else that would significantly change end play. I did toss the gasket that goes between the transmission and transfer case and used a thin layer of right stuff. That tightened it up a little because the rear bearing retainer relies on the t case to stop it and the gasket was .014 thick even when compressed tightly.

So test drive today with good results. I could actually engage the clutch quickly and spin the tires on the smooth concrete shop floor (in reverse). I didn't venture out far on the road because the owner had dropped the insurance, but I did find a a hill to test on. I could start off quickly in reverse with no problems. Never popped out!

Time will tell the rest of the story. Thanks for the input fellas!