Bulldogs

[bigmike82]

Hi all. As its named, this thread is about bulldogs. I've been studying, researching, owning, shoveling up after and for a lack of better term living bulldogs of all types for the past 15 or so years of my life. It started back when I was 12, and got my first exposure to bulldogs via the American Bulldog, specifically Lichthardts Marley Alskling. After meeting her I was hooked. I grew up in Chicago, more specifically 10 minutes west of the Sears tower straight down I290 in a city called Bellwood. Anyways, I was so depserate to quench my thirst for knowledge on bulldogs I literally would walk block to block looking for people who had anything resembling an AB or Pit and would offer up walking them or cleaning up after them just to get some hands on time with the dogs and give me a chance to have some conversations concerning the dogs. In doing so, I only actually made things worse because the more I learned, the more I wanted to learn and know. I started to write letters to breeders in magazines, buy kennel videos, and literally drive my parents up the walls. In my conquests, I've met some of the finest AB and APBT dogmen and women and dogs, and some of the worst. I've also learned a lot of the "trade secrets" like the meaning of a lugosi dog, the value of EB and EBT blood, and a lot about all the bulldogs and bull n terriers.

I told you all that to drive home the point to my actual question here. As of late, say 7-10 yrs the name White English has been popping up and I had never heard of it before, and the dog men and women in my circle of friends hadn't either. I have been reading all kinds of "history" and "facts" concerning this breed of dog, and it just is not adding up. I'm seeing info saying they range from 55lbs up to 140lbs, are the direct descendant of the extinct aluant and is the prototype to the AB, APBT and many other breeds. Reports say they are hidden in pockets of the florida panhandle, backwoods of georgia and alabama and now up in ohio. I have a few theories about all of this but I figured id come to a place where the people are from these areas, use bulldogs and cur dogs to make their livings and I'm searching for honest to god truth and real knowledge. Is this a real thing or is it just a way for breeders to sell excess pups and dogs? If they are real, what are they really like tempermentally and physically? Any and all information is appreciated ladies and gentlemen.

Thanks in advance

Mike

 

[Cur'n Plott Man]

If you have researched then you do see a true breed of Eng. Bull. They are mostly pure white and I have not every seen or heard of one over 75 lbs. I personally have had 2 before with 1 being solid white with blue eyes and the other having only one small black spot on it's head. Both were about 65 lbs. I now have AB and Pitts and I would say that they were more like AB other than I could not get mine to ever like their jaws ! Another words they would bite but let go of a hog. They would not hold him. There is Eng. Bulls all over the south so you should not have any problem in finding one. And you also have a different breed that's named Olde Eng. Bulls. They are short legged and used for show an pets.

 

[bigmike82]

Now I'm not talking about the AKC version called the English Bulldog, not the Mack Truck dog. I've seen and had my hands on many of them. I'm talking about a breed called White English, Ole Southern White, Carr White English or Hills Bull. I know about the Olde English Bulldogge as well and have seen and had my hands on many of them as well. Interesting note though about the dogs biting but not holding. Me and a friend were discussing a cross dog type called Florida Cur that can look like a bulldog but act like the cur dogs, and also look like Cur dogs and act like bulldogs. Thank you for bringing that up.


Mike

 

[Cur'n Plott Man]

Yes, I was meaning the White Eng. but their are some breeder's in Fl. that have Fla. cur's and Ole Southern Swamp cur's . The Swamp cur's are only bread bye a very few people and they are bigger style dogs for mainly catching. They are bread for more stamina than your average bulls have and don't let go for no reason ! If one of the fella's from down that way reads this then they can probably tell you who to contact.

 

[Boar Buster Line]

(quote)I now have AB and Pitts and I would say that they were more like AB other than I could not get mine to ever like their jaws ! Another words they would bite but let go of a hog. They would not hold him.

I agree 100% they arent any good to me as catch dogs, I have had a couple and got rid of them as pets cuz i could see them getting somone hurt in the woods. Nothing better than the bite of a pitbull

 

[wildhogs2000]

I live in Alabama and know a little about the breed but don't care for them to much. Here is a website you can go to that will tell you just about anything you want to know about the breed W.E.B. http://www.bttbab.com/. I have friends that have them and try to use them for catching hogs but just don't do what they should, they double bit. I have seen some avarage size and I have seen some around 100lbs. Great looking dogs but would not personnaly own one for hog hunting.

 

[baybranch02]

When i was growing up in the late 70s and early 80s a white bulldog with brindle markings or a solid white bull was always called a white english. They were usually 50-80 lbs, i never knew them to be registered by any association and i still see some today but now its mostly pits in the south ga area. I remember hunting in the mid 80s as a kid on the Ocmulgee river and in Clinch co and thats the only catch dog anybody used. I think that line of dog got bred in with all these pits and the true gamey white english is a thing of the past. The ones i see today that ive tried to make catch werent any good and would not catch and lock. This is just my personal knowledge dont claim to be an expert by any means.

 

[Ranger]

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/w/whiteenglishbulldog.htm
This should help

 

[bigmike82]

Thank you guys very much for the input. I really am after any and all firsthand knowledge and experience of any kind I can get. I've been to bttbab many times and I must say IMO there are way too many holes and misguided info in the "historical facts" and self serving quotes from books for me to get on board based on the info there. I'm not trying to slam them or anyone else, but I believe in first hand knowledge and experience over paintings, tiny excerpts from books and the ability to sway ones words to serve someones agenda, if there is one.

Thanks Again

Mike

 

[hoghunter102]

My buddy got a olde english bulldog gave to him, and he tryed it as a catch dog while i was up there hunting with him. The dogs was trying to catch the hog, and half butt catchin it but he got real excited and jumped up and bit my friend. Well to make a long story short my buddy kicked him and the dog went to the hog, and the stupid dog went down to the hog. Sorta chewed/licked the hog the hog threw all the dogs and smacked into the dog the dog ran and shortly after the dogs caught and we tie up every thing and walked back to the truck and the dog was under the truck he didn't go hog huntin agin but my friend was nice to him and found him a person who wanted him as a pet. So there for i will not use nothing besides a pit bull. I love the breed been raised around them, owned my own sence i was like 10 ,and the good thing about them about 8 outa 10 will catch. I might have a AB but it has to be the sporty looking breed of AB the ones that sorta have the looks like a pitt.

 

[rage]

the white english dogs had been in my family over 50yrs..my grandpapa had them on his farm and my daddy still got the same bloodline.they are very laid back and loves kids but they are very good guard dogs of their yard.they are very smart..back 20 yrs ago that is all we caught with was a big male around 75lb..they are good size but still can get around..if i have time i will take some pics over the weekend and post them of some of ours..aint never heard of many of them being register..

 

[Carolina Diesel]

What goin on Gin house see ur viewin

 

[UGA hunter]

Don't know about a lot about the White English but I've got an Olde English that will catch on the ear and HOLD. He's by no means a woods dog but he's got the instinct, drive, and heart to do it. He's trained for other sport/work as well. I've seen a lot of standard AB's that are great catch dogs!

 

[bigmike82]

Yeah the OEB was created based on EB x APBT by Mr. Leavitt. Seeing as the original cross was very easy to repeat, every tom dick and harry started to become breeders and totally putting the screwing on all the hard work David Leavitt had done. That being the case he changed the name of his breed, now known as Leavitt Bulldogge, started a registry, has a board of directors and in order for you to be a breeder of Leavitt dogs, they must be approved. We now have the Able bulldog, renesence or gargoyle bulldog, and about 50 different variations now without any real knowledge of dogs, genettics or care for the actual stock being used in creating all these new breeds, so who really knows what their getting when they buy and "olde english bulldogge" anymore.

Rage,
I would love to talk to you about your families stock, pass around some theories I have concerning them and what not. If you don't mind I'm game for keeping it here or we can go to private message concerning it.

Again, thanks to everyone for all the input and keep it coming!

Mike

 

[hoghunter102]

Why pravite messages i'd like to here more about them as well?

 

[bigmike82]

I only suggested private incase he/she didn't want names being dropped and such. I'm all for a public discussion.

 

[UGA hunter]

I can discuss OEB's as much as you want. I know people all over the country with every bit of the blood you talked about and I've had a little of it myself. I can get you to the people to talk standard AB's all you want. I don't know anything about the White English though. I'd like to hear more about them as well.

 

[bigmike82]

Well... in all honesty, the best way this is going to get goin is for those of you who want to read up on them to be able to formulate theories and ideas and what not, go to the white english bulldog preservation society's website, read through all of what that website has to say, and see if you find holes in it or buy it. Then we can get to the nitty gritty of it all. I am still hoping to get some input by Rage and anyone else who may have something to say about it before really spilling out what I think to be true based on everything I have been told by some well known dog men and many of the conversations I've had with fellow bulldoggers. I'm not in anyway trying to come off as some knowitall or like a kid with a toy everyone wants to see and not sharing because I want peopleto be able to take everything said by me and other people and educate themselves and make up their own minds.

Hope that's ok

Keepem workin


Mike

 

[baybranch02]

I went to the WEB website to look and some of the dogs look to me like what ive always called a white english. Some of the dogs look to short nosed, the ones i remember had more of a pit looking head and muzzle. In the last couple of years the AB,old southern and white english have been bunched together as "one of them white bulldogs" it seems by the hunters. I would like to hear your theory Big Mike.

 

[hoghunter102]

Mike i like the dogs in ur avatar what are they?and the white one looks like the ab i like.