Bullet, Ambush and others....

[jmharris23]

I’d be curious what you thought about this if you get the time to listen to it.

https://omny.fm/shows/north-point-community-church/aftermath-part-1-stand-alone-andy-stanley

 

[ambush80]

I'll listen to it and get back to you.

 

[1gr8bldr]

I am excited about this...... To realize that someone is teaching this. That I might not be all alone on this. I have been saying this for a long time here at GON. Glad to see someone do such a good job with it. I enjoyed it. Thanks for the link. I am anxious to listen to his other material. It does not have the power to convert atheist.... however it can remove the argument over the bible and shift it to faith.... do you believe there is a possible life after death.... and if so, who was the first. And how do I get to do the same?

 

[bullethead]

Just a quick thought right off the bat, If what is written in the bible is not true, there cannot be a Jesus to have faith in.

 

[jmharris23]

Just a quick thought right off the bat, If what is written in the bible is not true, there cannot be a Jesus to have faith in.

Although we come from a different angle that’s kind of my thought....either it’s true or not. If we get to decide what is and isn’t....How do we decide?

 

[ambush80]

Although we come from a different angle that’s kind of my thought....either it’s true or not. If we get to decide what is and isn’t....How do we decide?

Haven't watched it yet but I promise I will. But I can answer this anyway. I like this definition:

https://www.realclearscience.com/blog/2016/07/how_do_we_know_what_is_true.html

"How do we know if something is true?

It seems like a simple enough question. We know something is true if it is in accordance with measurable reality. But just five hundred years ago, this seemingly self-evident premise was not common thinking."


I like any of this as well:

https://www.google.com/search?q=true&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-1-ab

true
troÍžo/
adjective
adjective: true; comparative adjective: truer; superlative adjective: truest

1.
in accordance with fact or reality.
"a true story"
synonyms: correct, accurate, right, verifiable, in accordance with the facts, what actually/really happened, well documented, the case, so; More
literal, factual, unelaborated, unvarnished
"you'll see that what I say is true"
antonyms: untrue, false, fallacious
rightly or strictly so called; genuine.
"people are still willing to pay for true craftsmanship"
synonyms: genuine, authentic, real, actual, bona fide, proper; More
honest-to-goodness, kosher, legit, the real McCoy
"people are still willing to pay for true craftsmanship"
rightful, legitimate, legal, lawful, authorized, bona fide, de jure
"the true owner of the goods"
sincere, genuine, real, unfeigned, heartfelt, hearty, from the heart
"the necessity for true repentance"
antonyms: bogus, phony, de facto, insincere, feigned
real or actual.
"he has guessed my true intentions"
said when conceding a point in argument or discussion.
"true, it faced north, but you got used to that"
2.
accurate or exact.
"it was a true depiction"
synonyms: accurate, true to life, faithful, telling it like it is, fact-based, realistic, close, lifelike
"a true reflection of life in the 50s"
antonyms: inaccurate
(of a note) exactly in tune.
(of a compass bearing) measured relative to true north.
"steer 085 degrees true"
correctly positioned, balanced, or aligned; upright or level.
3.
loyal or faithful.
"he was a true friend"
synonyms: loyal, faithful, constant, devoted, staunch, steadfast, true-blue, unswerving, unwavering; More
trustworthy, trusty, reliable, dependable
"a true friend"
antonyms: disloyal, faithless
accurately conforming to (a standard or expectation); faithful to.
"this entirely new production remains true to the essence of Lorca's play"
4.
archaic
honest.
"we appeal to all good men and true to rally to us"

adverb
adverb: true

1.
literary
truly.
"Hobson spoke truer than he knew"
2.
accurately or without variation.

verb
verb: true; 3rd person present: trues; past tense: trued; past participle: trued; gerund or present participle: truing; gerund or present participle: trueing

1.
bring (an object, wheel, or other construction) into the exact shape, alignment, or position required.

Origin
Old English trÄ“owe, trȳwe ‘steadfast, loyal’; related to Dutch getrouw, German treu, also to truce.
Translate true to
Use over time for: true

 

[jmharris23]

Although we come from a different angle that’s kind of my thought....either it’s true or not. If we get to decide what is and isn’t....How do we decide?

To be fair to him Andy says he believes the OT is true in the second sermon of this series

 

[1gr8bldr]

Although we come from a different angle that’s kind of my thought....either it’s true or not. If we get to decide what is and isn’t....How do we decide?

It does not have to be all or nothing. It can be that the simple version was that Jesus existed, either was the messiah or was not? That he was killed by the Romans for fear of an insurrection. That he was raised from the dead or rumored to be raised from the dead. Later stories about these events and the man would naturally become embellished and influenced by the current issues of the time they were written. If someone misquoted details about Babe Ruth's life, embellished him into some sort of super hero, it does not mean that Babe Ruth did not exist, or play baseball, or be known for his home runs.

 

[ambush80]

It does not have to be all or nothing. It can be that the simple version was that Jesus existed, either was the messiah or was not? That he was killed by the Romans for fear of an insurrection. That he was raised from the dead or rumored to be raised from the dead. Later stories about these events and the man would naturally become embellished and influenced by the current issues of the time they were written. If someone misquoted details about Babe Ruth's life, embellished him into some sort of super hero, it does not mean that Babe Ruth did not exist, or play baseball, or be known for his home runs.

I can imagine the telephone game.

"So this guy said he was Jesus, but he didn't look like him. But he was walking around with this air...."

"I just heard that some guy saw resurrected Jesus and that he flew up into the air!!!"

 

[ambush80]

I'm gonna comment as I go along listening so as not to forget anything.

Around 5 or 6 minutes he talks about the New Atheists dismantling Christianity after 9/11. They dismantle all faith based beliefs and religions; Wicca, Pantheism, Islam, Christianity, Buddhism...all of them.

 

[ambush80]

15 min.

A miracle....

they can miraculously understand each other.

 

[ambush80]

Around 15:30:

He talks about Peter. "You know for you guys who have screwed up in the passed, this should be encouraging to you." Then he talks about how unqualified Peter is and yet Jesus puts him in charge.

Good preacher.

He's setting up the narrative. I feel a pitch and some snake oil coming.

 

[ambush80]

17:00.

I'm agonizing listening to him talk about how Jesus rose from the dead like it's true.

 

[1gr8bldr]

Mankind has forever pondered the afterlife. Not just the Christians. Many people have found lots of comfort in the thought of seeing again a loved one. If we can eliminate all the religious thoughts and everything that goes along with religion, then and only then can we ponder life after death. Could it be real? Do I believe it's possible? And then we can work from there. Either a quick no.... or a slim possibility, or I would like to think so, or yes, I do believe in the afterlife???? Everybody will be different. This is the first question to deal with. Then it moves on from there. If so, or maybe so, do we believe this rumor that a man named Jesus was raised from the dead? The early Christians did. Did they have good reason??? We don't know other than these writing in the book, the bible. Some will determine they don't believe there is a God, and some might determine they don't believe that if God does exist.... that he raises the dead, and some might say it's all possible but not believe that Jesus was raised from the dead. Some will. The book/bible has confused things so bad that the original hope of life after death, has been replaced with believing that God became a man. Christianity was never about believing that God became a man.

 

[ambush80]

23:43.

<blockquote class="imgur-embed-pub" lang="en" data-id="z49rnsK">Puppy yawn</blockquote><script async src="//s.imgur.com/min/embed.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[ambush80]

What are we getting at, Mark?

 

[1gr8bldr]

17:00.

I'm agonizing listening to him talk about how Jesus rose from the dead like it's true.

I think the point of the video is not it's truth but more about acknowledging the errors and contradictions. Basing one's faith on the simple story within rather than all the details that have become distorted. The point I made in a recent post, which came first, the chicken or the egg? In most cases, people have put their faith in a book, not in the basic story. He has given credit to atheist as to being able to refute the bible. Most Christians would rather drink poison than admit this, so we see a man capable of rational thinking. There is a long period in the speech that is about the stories, that you may get bogged down in. But the beginning point and ending point is to ponder what the early christians believed, it's simple form, without having the bible, and make a conscience effort to let this be the foundation of faith.... not the book. Considering this, if Christians gave up the inerrancy of scripture, it would eliminate over half the debate with Atheist. Not that it would change anything, but that it would simplify the debates

 

[ambush80]

Mankind has forever pondered the afterlife. Not just the Christians. Many people have found lots of comfort in the thought of seeing again a loved one. If we can eliminate all the religious thoughts and everything that goes along with religion, then and only then can we ponder life after death. Could it be real? Do I believe it's possible? And then we can work from there. Either a quick no.... or a slim possibility, or I would like to think so, or yes, I do believe in the afterlife???? Everybody will be different. This is the first question to deal with. Then it moves on from there. If so, or maybe so, do we believe this rumor that a man named Jesus was raised from the dead? The early Christians did. Did they have good reason??? We don't know other than these writing in the book, the bible. Some will determine they don't believe there is a God, and some might determine they don't believe that if God does exist.... that he raises the dead, and some might say it's all possible but not believe that Jesus was raised from the dead. Some will. The book/bible has confused things so bad that the original hope of life after death, has been replaced with believing that God became a man. Christianity was never about believing that God became a man.

OK. Let's talk about an afterlife. Let's talk about what would REALLY be like. Most Christians here will say "I don't really know what it will be like but it will be AWESOME!!!!!!!!!"

Errrrrrrrnt. Wrong answer.

 

[ambush80]

I think the point of the video is not it's truth but more about acknowledging the errors and contradictions. Basing one's faith on the simple story within rather than all the details that have become distorted. The point I made in a recent post, which came first, the chicken or the egg? In most cases, people have put their faith in a book, not in the basic story. He has given credit to atheist as to being able to refute the bible. Most Christians would rather drink poison than admit this, so we see a man capable of rational thinking. There is a long period in the speech that is about the stories, that you may get bogged down in. But the beginning point and ending point is to ponder what the early christians believed, it's simple form, without having the bible, and make a conscience effort to let this be the foundation of faith.... not the book. Considering this, if Christians gave up the inerrancy of scripture, it would eliminate over half the debate with Atheist. Not that it would change anything, but that it would simplify the debates

OK. I'm bogged down. This is the part of the sermon that I usually walk out on and take a potty break, play on my phone, pick my nails, draw on the program.....I'll get through it.

Mark, I would love to help pastors streamline their presentations if only to save the parishioners from needless suffering. They still follow the same structure that they learned in seminary, even this "new fangled" preacher. Ain't nobody got time for all that.

 

[1gr8bldr]

OK. Let's talk about an afterlife. Let's talk about what would REALLY be like. Most Christians here will say "I don't really know what it will be like but it will be AWESOME!!!!!!!!!"

Errrrrrrrnt. Wrong answer.

I'm not sure we have any true indication to what an afterlife would be like. The only information that one might find, that I know of, would be pondering what the bible says about it. Yet, then we have contradictions again here. John giving us details yet another saying "no eye has seen what the father has prepared" So, the one voids the other. Since we have no real knowledge of it, we would simply be left to our own speculation.