But Now

[newnature]

The Gentiles were never promised a Messiah. “But Now” marks a great change. The very blood that was to initiate Israel’s New Covenant, believers have a fellowship in that. Believers have a communion with the second Adam’s blood. It’s the blood that redeemed believers as well. God wants believers to all think the same way, to all think along the same lines, to be on the same page when it comes to what’s happening in this Age of Grace. What God is doing today and how’s he doing it. Believers are called saints today, set apart ones. Saint is God’s word for a believer. God sets the believer apart. The Bible is really the story of two men and the people who are related to these two men. The issue for life everlasting is not what church you attend or to which denomination you belong or how religious you are or even whether or not you are a good person in the worldly sense of the word good. The issue in eternity will not be how many sins you’ve committed or how many sins you have promised God you will abstain from committing. It will not be whether you’ve walked an aisle, recited a particular prayer, or asked Jesus into your heart. 


The issue in eternity will be to which man are you related? Do you have your identity in the first Adam, or do you have your identity in the second Adam, Jesus our Savior. You have to believe that the second Adam died, and not just died for your sins, but what was accomplished when he died for your sins; what was accomplished where those sins were concerned. You cannot be related or identified in both. What if Paul were found in the Savior having his own righteousness? What if that was the only way Paul could stand before God was to stand before God in his own righteousness? How did Paul end up Romans chapter 7? Oh wonderful Christian that I am? Romans 7:24 O wretched man that I am. Paul wanted to be found before God not bearing his own righteousness for his purpose in being there, but having the Savior’s righteousness attributed freely to Paul’s account. That’s what he wanted. Understanding the truth of Romans 7:23 is not something to overcome but it’s a reality to be understood. We’ll never escape. You see, this is not something we could overcome, this is something Jesus had to overcome on our behalf and he did so on the tree of crucifixion. The battle within Paul proved to him that absolute impossibility of performance based righteousness. Paul always found himself a do short and a don’t late.

 

[hobbs27]

Matthew 21:43 "Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people, producing the fruit of it.

 

[Artfuldodger]

Matthew 21:43 "Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people, producing the fruit of it.

Does that mean the Gentiles were never promised a Messiah?

Ephesians 2:12
remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world.

Isaiah 14:1
When the LORD will have compassion on Jacob and again choose Israel, and settle them in their own land, then strangers will join them and attach themselves to the house of Jacob.

Romans 9:4
the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption as sons; theirs the divine glory and the covenants; theirs the giving of the Law, the temple worship, and the promises.

Acts 2:39
This promise belongs to you and to your children and to all who are far off, to all whom the Lord our God will call to Himself."

 

[hobbs27]

The Jew's were promised a Messiah, but don't mistake that their kingdom was to be restored to them alone. The restoration of Israel included Gentiles.

 

[newnature]

The Jew's were promised a Messiah, but don't mistake that their kingdom was to be restored to them alone. The restoration of Israel included Gentiles.

Most are going back to the 12, trying to rely upon what the 12 would tell them. How many know of Paul’s distinct message today? Are we moving toward truth or moving away form truth? The Savior did not send Paul to build upon or to add further truth to the message of those who preceded Paul. (Romans 15:20) The foundation they laid was of Jesus as Messiah to the nation Israel. The Messiah is promised to Israel for the ruling over of that Kingdom, that earthly Kingdom promised that nation. Paul would not to have wanted us to mix the message of the 12 in regard to God’s program to and with the nation Israel...with the message specifically given him for the Gentiles. Paul was given that brand new revelation. He would not have wanted us to add or mix earthly Kingdom truth with the message he dispensed. He went to great lengths to separate his ministry with the ministries of those before him. 1 Corinthians 3:10 - But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

 

[hobbs27]

Most are going back to the 12, trying to rely upon what the 12 would tell them. How many know of Paul’s distinct message today? Are we moving toward truth or moving away form truth? The Savior did not send Paul to build upon or to add further truth to the message of those who preceded Paul. (Romans 15:20) The foundation they laid was of Jesus as Messiah to the nation Israel. The Messiah is promised to Israel for the ruling over of that Kingdom, that earthly Kingdom promised that nation. Paul would not to have wanted us to mix the message of the 12 in regard to God’s program to and with the nation Israel...with the message specifically given him for the Gentiles. Paul was given that brand new revelation. He would not have wanted us to add or mix earthly Kingdom truth with the message he dispensed. He went to great lengths to separate his ministry with the ministries of those before him. 1 Corinthians 3:10 - But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

Your thinking just as the Pharisee did. They were mistaken, so are you.
The physical nation of Israel being God's kingdom is no more, never will be. The Spiritual Kingdom of Christ reigns forever, without end.

 

[newnature]

Your thinking just as the Pharisee did. They were mistaken, so are you.
The physical nation of Israel being God's kingdom is no more, never will be. The Spiritual Kingdom of Christ reigns forever, without end.

Romans 13:9, man’s relationship to man...man’s relationship to God. Which category is missing in that listing? Man’s relationship to God is not included there. Why do you suppose Paul left that part out? The simple answer it this, God was demonstrating to Israel through the law that she could never achieve a righteous standing before him according to a performance contract. She could never merit a relationship with God based upon her own performance. That would be totally impossible. Is God dealing with believers today according to a law contract? No way, not according to our apostle. That’s why Paul leaves out that category of the law that dealt with man’s relationship with God. Paul boiled it down to one word, agape (Romans 13:8) because Romans chapters 1-8 tells us how it is that we are considered righteous in the eyes of God today. There is no scale in God’s mind other than the Savior’s righteousness.

 

[hobbs27]

OK. You completely lost me.

 

[newnature]

OK. You completely lost me.

Much of religiondom and particular denominations have moved in and camped out, taken up residency on a permanent bases with Matthew 21:22. How’s that working for them? What are they going to do with John 15:7 when they’re praying for something in this Age of Grace and it’s not done? Is it going to shatter people’s faith? Are they going to say, “It’s me? It didn’t work for me. It worked over there for them. Don’t know why it didn’t work for me. Perhaps there’s some unconfessed sin in my life. Perhaps I’m not right with God.” See how this is ruining the faith of many people today. In that program where Jesus was speaking to Israel in conjunction with the land she’d been promised and him doing marvels among that nation in relation to the King being present, time for things to be out of the way, those Israelites could ask whatever they wanted to ask and it would be done unto them. In fact, the Bible says you have not because you ask not. That wasn’t written to you. That was written for Israel in relation to their coming Kingdom. God has made an entirely different set of provisions for the Grace Age believers this age.

 

[newnature]

When we say God’s knows are heart, we are normally thinking of sincerity, but sincerity doesn’t cut it. The reconciliation Paul’s talking about was accomplished by God. He designed it. He provided the means by which it could be accomplished. So by the very words of God, Paul was telling people their reconciliation with God came not by their abstention from wicked deeds or evil deeds or by their commitment to the performance of good deeds or by a new measure of forgiveness that they might be able to procure for themselves...given they’re suitable sorry of course and sufficiently sincere when they ask for it and staunchly committed to do the dos and stop doing the don’ts in the future. Not by any of those things. That’s what Paul is talking about when he told people that their reconciliation is of God. How did God accomplish that reconciliation...and all things are of God...not you at all, but of God who has already reconciled us to himself. How...by Jesus and has given to us not the issue of finding a way to accomplish it or to keep ourselves reconciled to God. But what did he give to us...2 Corinthians 5:19.

 

[hobbs27]

I believe Jesus is speaking to His disciples in both Matthew and John. The gifts He gave them do not extend to us.

 

[Artfuldodger]

The Jew's were promised a Messiah, but don't mistake that their kingdom was to be restored to them alone. The restoration of Israel included Gentiles.

I know it will not be restored to them alone as the Gentiles were grafted into the Commonwealth of Israel. I wonder how it happened as explained in Romans 11:25-29?

25I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you will not be conceited: A hardening in part has come to Israel, until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. 26And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The Deliverer will come from Zion, He will remove godlessness from Jacob. 27And this is My covenant with them when I take away their sins.”28Regarding the gospel, they are enemies on your account; but regarding election, they are loved on account of the patriarchs. 29For God’s gifts and His call are irrevocable.

 

[hobbs27]

I know it will not be restored to them alone as the Gentiles were grafted into the Commonwealth of Israel. I wonder how it happened as explained in Romans 11:25-29?

25I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you will not be conceited: A hardening in part has come to Israel, until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. 26And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The Deliverer will come from Zion, He will remove godlessness from Jacob. 27And this is My covenant with them when I take away their sins.”28Regarding the gospel, they are enemies on your account; but regarding election, they are loved on account of the patriarchs. 29For God’s gifts and His call are irrevocable.

All Israel will be saved... Remember all that was of Israel was not Israel. The removing godlessness from Jacob was the destruction in 70ad....Paul is explaining to the Gentiles here.. Even though these Jew's are enemies to the Gospel, they are of the Patriarchs and loved for that.... The church in Jerusalem tried bringing in the Hebrews to the faith of Christ to the last minute. When they saw the army's compassing the city they had to flee..

As Luke 21 says, the fulfillment of all things written was about to come.

 

[Artfuldodger]

"A hardening in part has come to Israel, until"

"regarding election, they are loved on account of the patriarchs."

"God’s gifts and His call are irrevocable."

If we continue;

Romans 11:31-33
so they too have now disobeyed, in order that they too may now receive mercy through the mercy shown to you. 32 For God has consigned all men to disobedience, so that He may have mercy on them all. 33 O, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable His judgments, and untraceable His ways!

Is it possible since we don't know the "ways" of God and that God will have mercy on whom he will have mercy? That God can temporarily harden individuals to make his plan come about and then open these same individuals eyes later to show mercy?

Perhaps this is what God did to Saul. He hardened him for a mission and later opened his eyes.

 

[newnature]

I believe Jesus is speaking to His disciples in both Matthew and John. The gifts He gave them do not extend to us.

Let’s suppose that God had not separated out a brand new apostle with a brand new message for a brand new creation called the Body of the Savior. Imagine with me for a moment that God had allowed that kingdom program to continue on as some believe today. What message would we as Gentiles, have heard under those circumstances, had that program continued on? You see, according to Israel’s program, when the messiah was cut off according to the 483 years of Daniel’s prophesy fulfilled, the time for that nation to come to their last days prior to the entrance of their kingdom had come close to hand. Only 7 years remained at that period of time on Israel’s prophecy clock before the earthly kingdom would be set up and the messiah would be ruling and reigning on the throne. The tribulation was on its way when Pentecost took place. These are the last day Joel was talking about. If God had not put Israel’s program on the shelf, he would be gathering Gentiles, and bringing them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat. (Joel 3:9-16) At the culmination of the tribulation period, Gentiles are going to be coming against the nation Israel. The Gentiles will be the bullies when this day arrives. Jesus is coming to stand up for that remnant and who will the messiah be coming to fight? The Gentiles.

 

[newnature]

"A hardening in part has come to Israel, until"

"regarding election, they are loved on account of the patriarchs."

"God’s gifts and His call are irrevocable."

If we continue;

Romans 11:31-33
so they too have now disobeyed, in order that they too may now receive mercy through the mercy shown to you. 32 For God has consigned all men to disobedience, so that He may have mercy on them all. 33 O, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable His judgments, and untraceable His ways!

Is it possible since we don't know the "ways" of God and that God will have mercy on whom he will have mercy? That God can temporarily harden individuals to make his plan come about and then open these same individuals eyes later to show mercy?

Perhaps this is what God did to Saul. He hardened him for a mission and later opened his eyes.

When Paul’s ministry to the Gentiles was getting underway before God’s Word was complete...was send a handkerchief in order for God through his power from on high to jump into action and perform a miraculous sign for the sick. (Acts 19:11-12) Do you believe that someone could send you a handkerchief and with that handkerchief you're just automatically going to be healed of all manner of sickness and disease? God certainly worked that way in that day. But, Paul himself, revealed a change that was to take place as the ascended Savior let Paul know that change would be coming. 1 Corinthians 13:8, these were signed gifts; the ability to proclaim God’s message prior to the completion of God’s Word through the supernatural empowerment of God’s power from on high. 


1 Corinthians 13:9, it would have been impossible for the prophets of that day, those proclaiming the truth of God before the completed Word of God to reveal all the knowledge of God that would be contained in that completed Word of God. Paul’s epistles were to be passed from assembly to assembly, but keep in mind, he’d only completed 3 letters up to the point of what he’s telling us right here. All the written word the saints had up to that time, pertaining to the dispensation of grace was Galatians and the two letters to the saints at Thessalonica. Paul kept getting more revelations from the ascended Savior on what to tell us and the way God’s working with us today. 


1 Corinthians 13:10, when that which was to be finished comes to completion, there would be no need for the sign gifts to remain in operation. What was unfinished at that time? Paul’s writings to the Body of the Savior of this age!2 Corinthians 12:7-10, notice the change in operation that was beginning to take place in this new, previously undisclosed dispensation. What revelations? The revealing of the secret that God had been keeping where we Gentiles are concerned in light of Israel’s program being placed on the shelf for a time; the revelations concerning the change in program relative to the new dispensation God was ushering in. 


2 Timothy 4:19-20, Trophimus have I left at Miletum SICK. No handkerchief, no anointing with oil, no laying on of hands, no naming it and claiming it, no power of a positive confession, no seed faith sowing, no prayer of faith prayer meeting mentioned whatsoever, just the truth resident in Ephesians 3:20 in light of God’s change of operation in connection with his new program and the dispensation of the grace of God. We can now trust the truth of Romans 8:28.

 

[j_seph]

In layman terms, what are you trying to prove, disprove, make a point about with this post sir?

 

[newnature]

In layman terms, what are you trying to prove, disprove, make a point about with this post sir?

Satan would say, “Why, that can not be right!” (So do a lot of people by the way) “God can not be just and call a person righteous when it’s obvious that person falls short of the standard God himself set when he gave Israel the law contract.” Satan is offering people a way to become righteous; to achieve a righteous standing before God and he always attaches people’s performance; people’s fingerprints are found on Satan’s method of becoming righteous. Romans 3:24, being declared righteous is God’s gift to the believing sinner and it has nothing whatsoever to do with the sinner themselves doing anything to deserve or merit that righteous standing. The righteousness God credits to the account of the believer is a righteousness that comes without a cause in the one being declared so. Those steeped in religiondom, and it’s not confined to those in religiondom, but those steeped in religiondom raise the same objection every Sunday, if not every day.

 

[hobbs27]

"A hardening in part has come to Israel, until"

"regarding election, they are loved on account of the patriarchs."

"God’s gifts and His call are irrevocable."

If we continue;

Romans 11:31-33
so they too have now disobeyed, in order that they too may now receive mercy through the mercy shown to you. 32 For God has consigned all men to disobedience, so that He may have mercy on them all. 33 O, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable His judgments, and untraceable His ways!

Is it possible since we don't know the "ways" of God and that God will have mercy on whom he will have mercy? That God can temporarily harden individuals to make his plan come about and then open these same individuals eyes later to show mercy?

Perhaps this is what God did to Saul. He hardened him for a mission and later opened his eyes.

If you do a short study and research on God blinding Israel, you will see it means they are being disobedient, and always when Israel was blind in the past was just before a coming of the Lord... When God would use another nation to come down on them.

God was squeezing out every last true Israelite that would believe. This is bring in all the nations, the ten northern tribes that the two sticks would be one.

When at first the Israelites did not believe, God brought in the Gentiles so the non believers could look on and see the pouring out of the Spirit on them. This was suppose to give them faith that Jesus is Lord... Those that rejected to the end.. 70ad. Were the wicked removed from Jacob.

 

[hobbs27]

Let’s suppose that God had not separated out a brand new apostle with a brand new message for a brand new creation called the Body of the Savior. Imagine with me for a moment that God had allowed that kingdom program to continue on as some believe today. What message would we as Gentiles, have heard under those circumstances, had that program continued on? You see, according to Israel’s program, when the messiah was cut off according to the 483 years of Daniel’s prophesy fulfilled, the time for that nation to come to their last days prior to the entrance of their kingdom had come close to hand. Only 7 years remained at that period of time on Israel’s prophecy clock before the earthly kingdom would be set up and the messiah would be ruling and reigning on the throne. The tribulation was on its way when Pentecost took place. These are the last day Joel was talking about. If God had not put Israel’s program on the shelf, he would be gathering Gentiles, and bringing them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat. (Joel 3:9-16) At the culmination of the tribulation period, Gentiles are going to be coming against the nation Israel. The Gentiles will be the bullies when this day arrives. Jesus is coming to stand up for that remnant and who will the messiah be coming to fight? The Gentiles.

I don't believe in your replacement theology. The Gentiles ( Romans) came against apostate Israel in 70ad..completely destroyed Judaism. The remnant was those that believed in Christ. Christianity is the continuation of God's true religion not a temporary replacement.