Can a Man Be Saved from Sin or Born Again More Than Once?

This salvation is the redemption of our mortal bodies(resurrection). It is a future event.
So salvation is a wrong interpretation? I know that we should all strive to understand, but from the prospective that many were saved by believing that God would send a Messiah even before he came(Old Testament Saints), does it really matter much when? The Cross, 70AD, future second coming?

Do you ever get to the point in some of these discussions that you wonder what point the other person is even trying to make or the purpose of his point?
 
Hebrews 8:13
When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.

This is just before 70ad...just before the old covenant disappeared.
Hebrews 10:9
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
 
"but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him."

Whose going to be waiting on the Earth for this redemption?
Considering many will be in Heaven or a holding place somewhere.
 

hobbs27

Senior Member
Hebrews 9:27And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Christ was a man, and as a man He lived and died never to come to Earth and live and die again. Paul puts it this way in Romans 6 " Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more, death no longer has dominion over Him. For the death that He died, He died to sin ONCE for all.


There's no definite article before JUDGMENT, implying that the judgment wasn't under consideration here: rather, at the time of our death.. He has already judged... Therefore there is no way this text has anything to do with the resurrection.
 
Revelation 12:10
Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say: "Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Messiah. For the accuser of our brothers and sisters, who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down.

Again, maybe salvation came on the cross and salvation/redemption came in 70AD.

I still don't see the importance of when it came. If there are no dispensations, what does it matter? All I know is something happened on the cross and something happened in 70AD. Beyond those two events, I don't see the importance of another coming. It might happen but what will it accomplish?
 

hobbs27

Senior Member
Hebrews 10:9
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
Yes It was literally happening as the author of Hebrews said writing this... He was in the process of taking away the old and establishing the New... The two covenants were overlapping during this period of the end of the world... Ie age.
 
so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

I didn't see any interpretations using "to redeem" they all said "to save" or "to bring salvation."

It doesn't say anything about salvation to those already in Heaven or to redeem those already saved.

I must say that if I was to die today and go to be with the Lord, I will not be eagerly awaiting for him. I will be with him.
 
Yes It was literally happening as the author of Hebrews said writing this... He was in the process of taking away the old and establishing the New... The two covenants were overlapping during this period of the end of the world... Ie age.
I disagree. The work of redemption was finished because after the resurrected Jesus entered into the holiest(heaven), and presented Himself to the Father, He sat down.His sitting down is very important here, because it signified the work was finished.
He was not in the process of establishing the new, as you say. It was established forever.
 
so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

I didn't see any interpretations using "to redeem" they all said "to save" or "to bring salvation."

It doesn't say anything about salvation to those already in Heaven or to redeem those already saved.

I must say that if I was to die today and go to be with the Lord, I will not be eagerly awaiting for him. I will be with him.
Your mortal body would be waiting. Read Rom. 8 about the "redemption" of the mortal body.
 

hobbs27

Senior Member
Art salvation came before 70ad..these were the people that when died were called dead in Christ.... But eternal life Salvation came in 70ad, when the dead were raised and the living no longer died..In other words when they physically died, spiritually they were with Christ.. We will never know a grave, it's been defeated.
 
Colossians 2:14
having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross.
 

hobbs27

Senior Member
I disagree. The work of redemption was finished because after the resurrected Jesus entered into the holiest(heaven), and presented Himself to the Father, He sat down.His sitting down is very important here, because it signified the work was finished.
He was not in the process of establishing the new, as you say. It was established forever.
Atonement was never complete in the old covenant until the high priest came out of the holiest place and announced salvation to the people.
 
Your mortal body would be waiting. Read Rom. 8 about the "redemption" of the mortal body.
That makes it sound like two salvations, one on the cross for my soul and a future one for my body. You are calling it a redemption but the writer of Hebrews is calling it a salvation. I don't really see or read as to why I need two.

Reading Romans 11 sounds like a spiritual resurrection to me. The whole chapter is about abandoning the flesh and becoming spiritual by following the Spirit. The Spirit will give life to my mortal body.

Life to my mortal body in a spirit form. No longer tasting death. Everlasting life.

12Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation, but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

The redemption of our body, which is freeing our body from sin. What better way of doing that than the spiritual path mentioned in Romans 8? To rid ourselves of our sinful flesh and be free of sin at last in a redeemed spiritual body.
 
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hobbs27

Senior Member
Colossians 2:14
having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross.
Yes it was of no effect to them... but notice it was still in existence. And it was still a shadow of things that hadn't come yet.

Colossians 2
16 Therefore no one is to [a]act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day— 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the [c]substance [d]belongs to Christ.
 
Atonement was never complete in the old covenant until the high priest came out of the holiest place and announced salvation to the people.
Atonement was never complete in the old covenant period.
His coming out didn't make it complete. He had to continually repeat the process over and over.(HEB.9-10)

But Jesus completed the work and sat down. Of all the furniture in the OT tabernacle, there was no place for the priest to sit down.
 

hobbs27

Senior Member
Atonement was never complete in the old covenant period.
His coming out didn't make it complete. He had to continually repeat the process over and over.(HEB.9-10)

But Jesus completed the work and sat down. Of all the furniture in the OT tabernacle, there was no place for the priest to sit down.
If the old covenant atonement was a shadow of the one final atonement.. And I believe it was or the comparison would not have been made... Then Christ as our High Priest would not have completed the atonement until he came out of the holiest place and announced salvation to the people.
 
If the old covenant atonement was a shadow of the one final atonement.. And I believe it was or the comparison would not have been made... Then Christ as our High Priest would not have completed the atonement until he came out of the holiest place and announced salvation to the people.
That's why the theme of the book of Hebrews is "better".
The writer shows all the ways that Jesus is better than the type.
And this is one of those better things...He sat down!
 
That makes it sound like two salvations, one on the cross for my soul and a future one for my body. You are calling it a redemption but the writer of Hebrews is calling it a salvation. I don't really see or read as to why I need two.

Reading Romans 11 sounds like a spiritual resurrection to me. The whole chapter is about abandoning the flesh and becoming spiritual by following the Spirit. The Spirit will give life to my mortal body.

Life to my mortal body in a spirit form. No longer tasting death. Everlasting life.

12Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation, but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

The redemption of our body, which is freeing our body from sin. What better way of doing that than the spiritual path mentioned in Romans 8? To rid ourselves of our sinful flesh and be free of sin at last in a redeemed spiritual body.
Check out what Job said about it:

Job 19:25-27

25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:

26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:

27 Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.
 

hobbs27

Senior Member
Job 42:5 "I have heard of You by the hearing of the ear; But now my eye sees You;


Job saw God while in his flesh..well before the worms destroyed it.
 

hobbs27

Senior Member
That's why the theme of the book of Hebrews is "better".
The writer shows all the ways that Jesus is better than the type.
And this is one of those better things...He sat down!
No sir. It was better because it was a one time deal and was eternal. I say Jesus completed the atonement, by your own futurist ideology you must believe it is not complete... You believe He is not done and must return.. I say our Lord is King of Kings, it is finished, and He is victorious.
 
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