Cars 2023

[NOYDB]

If everything he is doing is "old tech" and "nothing new" as you state it, then why hasn't someone done it in the last five decades?

If he had built EVs 50 years ago that would have been a major advancement. Building them now after several others have lead the way is just more "Me too". I'll eat crow if you can show me where he proposes something new.

He doesn't do anything himself. Let me con lawmakers out of massive amounts of tax money, and I'll hire engineers and pay them to go to the moon again. I'll claim credit and the gullible will cheer.

By my lights, it ain't original to redo write-ups from 40 year old articles from Popular Mechanics.

Let him come up with a safe flying submarine for personal use and I'll be impressed.

 

[Miguel Cervantes]

If he had built EVs 50 years ago that would have been a major advancement. Building them now after several others have lead the way is just more "Me too". I'll eat crow if you can show me where he proposes something new.

Really? Show me the last successful 100% EV auto manufacturer before him.

Better yet, show me the first EV 18 wheeler to go into mass production.

The hydrogen engine has been around for eons as well. If someone comes along and produces a successfully marketable auto using that technology are you going to bombard them with the same contempt?

I get the gist of what you are attempting to lay on him, but it's like a blind man throwing darts at a board in a 10 acre field.

 

[NOYDB]

Really? Show me the last successful 100% EV auto manufacturer before him.

Honda, Chevy and others don't count?

Better yet, show me the first EV 18 wheeler to go into mass production.

Show me the non-subsidized EV 18 wheeler and the plant that is making deliveries of more than potemkin products for goosing more tax dollars.

The hydrogen engine has been around for eons as well. If someone comes along and produces a successfully marketable auto using that technology are you going to bombard them with the same contempt?

Key words "successfully marketable auto"

I get the gist of what you are attempting to lay on him, but it's like a blind man throwing darts at a board in a 10 acre field.

I don't believe in hero worship. So far all the con men held up for being heros have feet of clay.

 

[Miguel Cervantes]

I don't believe in hero worship. So far all the con men held up for being heros have feet of clay.

I said 100% EV manufacturer. Those other companies make their money on fossil fuel vehicles,,,,,,,oh, and get their fair share of subsidies as well.

Indirect subsidies are varied in number and application. Oil, which powers most automobiles, is subsidized by billions per year. So without the oil subsidies, the car market would crash.

A number of protective measures are in place to help US manufacturers over foreign makers, but those protections aren't subsidies, and they are ineffective when the foreign makers have local factories.

As the US has bailed out the US makers with direct subsidies before, the implied "too big to fail" gives a direct benefit to the makers, as they are a lower credit risk if the US government steps in to cover shortfalls, as they have before and can easily do again. So though not a direct subsidy, the implied backing of the US government keeps their operating costs lower than they would otherwise be.

https://www.quora.com/How-much-does-the-U-S-subsidize-the-automotive-industry

 

[DannyW]

Why is getting and taking government assistance by Elon Musk so wrong? Have we forgotten that GM and Chrysler took $80 BILLION from the government back in 2010 to just stay in business? Not to mention all the other incentives the government provided to help them survive (car buy-back, government backed warranties, government backed 0 percent financing, etc).

And no...it was not all paid back...over 10 BILLION was forgiven just from the 80 billion alone, and none has been paid back from the billions of government assistance programs.

Yes, Elon Musk's car company has benefited from government assistance, but it certainly did not set a precedent.

 

[NOYDB]

I said 100% EV manufacturer. Those other companies make their money on fossil fuel vehicles,,,,,,,oh, and get their fair share of subsidies as well.

With this as with all else the bottom problem is rooted in the things lawmakers interfere with. Doesn't change net results.

BTW manufacturers are not going to convert their entire product line. Getting even 1 model is a big step.

 

[Miguel Cervantes]

Why is getting and taking government assistance by Elon Musk so wrong? Have we forgotten that GM and Chrysler took $80 BILLION from the government back in 2010 to just stay in business? Not to mention all the other incentives the government provided to help them survive (car buy-back, government backed warranties, government backed 0 percent financing, etc).

And no...it was not all paid back...over 10 BILLION was forgiven just from the 80 billion alone, and none has been paid back from the billions of government assistance programs.

Yes, Elon Musk's car company has benefited from government assistance, but it certainly did not set a precedent.

Every auto manufacturer did, it's just most of them filtered it through their finance programs to make it look better in the media.

 

[NOYDB]

Why is getting and taking government assistance by Elon Musk so wrong? Have we forgotten that GM and Chrysler took $80 BILLION from the government back in 2010 to just stay in business? Not to mention all the other incentives the government provided to help them survive (car buy-back, government backed warranties, government backed 0 percent financing, etc).

And no...it was not all paid back...over 10 BILLION was forgiven just from the 80 billion alone, and none has been paid back from the billions of government assistance programs.

Yes, Elon Musk's car company has benefited from government assistance, but it certainly did not set a precedent.

It's not that he uses subsidies. It's that he uses them to produce the equivalent of digital buggy whips.