Creation or evolution?

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Randy

Senior Member
Maybe this has been discussed here before but I did not see it, so what is your belief Creation or Evolution?

Personally my belief is a mixture of the two. As I understand my Baptist upbringing, they believe the earth is about 6000 years old. IMO there is just too much scientific fact that it is much much older. I believe God did create the Heavens and the Earth including man. It is just as amazing to me that he did it through evolution than he just picked up some clay and made man. No dought we all originally came from the earth even the scientific facts back that up. Boy, if my Mother heard me say this she would beat me but I think this is another "hang up" on the literal interpretation of the Bible for some Christians. In the end it really does not matter anyway but some would throw me out of the Church for even thinking this.

Anyone care to share your beliefs?
 
God created everything includeing evolution, How's that? I won't ever believe my ancesters are related to monkeys though. How old things are is a relative thing what nobody can say is that God works under limits and constraints of mans thinking and reasoning.
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PWalls

Senior Member
Oh Randy, you ask some hard questions.

As a new Christian, I personally have a hard time with this one as well. I am an Engineer and really like physical evidence and all of that. I can't discount some of the scientific evidence either.

Here is where I get shot down and have to sit down with my Pastor on.

I believe that God created the universe and everything in it. I believe in the Big Bang. However, I don't think that it just happened. God made it happen. I think that evolution is a valid theory when you believe that God made it happen. How could Noah have fit two of every species of life in the Ark that is alive today if you dicount evolution/specialization? Do you ignore the scientific data of carbon-dating and the like?
 

Madsnooker

Senior Member
Creation

Life is not evolving, it is dieing out


Evolutionist can not show you a fossill at stage one then stage two and so on and so on. If everything has evolved you would think there would be tons and tons of fossill record to accurately back it up. It just doesn't exist.

You have to remember, most scientist that preach evolution do not believe in God. So when evidence points to some type of creation, than you would have to believe in a higher power that did the creating. This cuases a great dilema for those that think their actions on earth do not matter. Instead, it means they might be accountable for their actions one day and that changes everything. ;)
 
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QuackAddict

Senior Member
Randy, my beliefs are pretty similar to yours. I believe in God and in evolution. There is way too much scientific evidence that shows that there have been a been multiple hominoid species that date back thousands of years. The further back you go back in time the more these species resemble primates. But as these species have progressed they became more similar to homo sapiens. I think that humans evolved but God was there to give us our soul and inltelligence. I know that there are many people who will disagree with this but how do you explain all of the other hominids that are now extinct and there are fossils that prove their existence?
 
I don't see why there should be a problem believing the earth is more than 6000 years old.... *most* Christians I know believe that one day to God is as a thousand years to mankind, so using that formula, the earth would have been 6000 years old before man ever stepped foot on it. And if man's been around for 6000 years, that would make the earth at least 12,000 years old.

Besides, the first line of Genesis is "In the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth." It says the earth was dark and without form. It doesn't say how long the earth was dark before God said "let there be light". Could have been thousands of (mankind) years. The earth could have been sitting for ages before God divided light and the dark, making a 'day'. The bible doesn't say the heavens and the earth were created on the first day, it only says 'in the beginning'.

Besides, who knows really how long a 'day' is to God? I know *most* Christians give 2 Peter 3:8 as proof that one day is as a thousand years to God... but who says this is meant to be taken literally? Who says Peter wasn't just making an analogy, making a point that 'time' as we know it is of no concern to God?

Am I making any sense here? lol! Sometimes what is in my head does not make it to print the same way I think it! :)

Kerri :)
 

Hambone

Senior Member
You all should consider reading a book by Dr. Hugh Ross called "The Fingerprint of God". Dr. Ross is a scientest; not a preacher type. In the book, he does a rather thorough job of reconciling religion with science. It's a facinating read if you're "logic minded" and a great book to loan to friends who feel "too smart" to believe in our God.

"The Fingerprint of God"
 
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and a side note... lol

Something else that I've always wondered about... who says we were God's first 'try' at mankind? When I read Genesis 1:28, God says to 'be fruitful and multiply and replenish the earth...' by definition wouldn't that mean that at one time the earth was full? What if God had created a 'mankind' before us that wasn't in His 'image'?

Just food for thought :) Religion is one of my favorite discussion topics! There is so much room for interpretation, and I enjoy hearing different opinions because I am always learning something new from someone else's point of view!

Kerri :)
 

JBowers

Senior Member
Arrowslinger it seems as though you misunderstand and incorrectly define evolution. Look back to your own beginnings - in your mother's womb you too evolved from one cell. As such, you like the rest of us are a product of evolution.

Evolution is an unpredictable and natural process of continuous adaption over time through genetic modification affected by natural selection, chance, historical contingencies and changing environments. Nothing in that definition requires one to believe or demand that man evolved from monkeys or amoebas. One can take it as far they want with respect to their beliefs. Science can take one pretty far within the realm of that definition too,; however, at some point regardless of their view must rely on faith.

Randy there are essentially three predominant views, you refer to two. One is the Creationist View, which essentially is that God created man pretty much in his present form at one time within the last 10,000 years. A second is Theistic Evolution, which is essentially that man has developed over millions of years from less advanced forms of life, but God guided this process, including man's creation through evolution (i.e. evolution is also God's creation and his tool). You referred to both of these and it seems you follow the basic though of Theistic Evolution. The third is Naturalistic Evolution, which essentially is that man has developed over millions of years from less advanced forms of life. God had no part in this process.

Americans are generally split between Creationist Vew and Theisitic Evolution and that split has not statisticaly changed in over 20 years. Very few (less than 10%) follow the Naturalistic Evolution view. Those holding to the Creationist view are generally Southern, older, and take the bible literally. Those holding the Theistic view, are generally younger and Catholic or Protestant. Further statistical predictions appear to show that becuase Creationist are generally older that support for this view is eroding. Similar to what is happening with our Hunter population.

That is all I am saying about this issue, as I have been asked to discuss it more by a Board member at an upcoming private event. Randy, I believe you will be there as will a few others and we can talk more baout it at that time.

Good Day!
 
"Darwin's Black Box" is a great must read for anyone who believes that we 'evolved'. :eek:)

As the Michael Behe states in the book, we are "irreducibly complex" and we have systems in our bodies that could not have evolved.

The first cell could not have evolved. Even the most simple cell is too complex to just have happened.

IMHO, those who say they believe in "God and Evolution' are probably living the 'hope so' life. "I'll say I believe in God, since this world is just too awesome to be an accident, just in case He is really there." "Then, maybe I will have lived good enough to get eternal life, irregardless of Jesus" LOL

Bandy
 
Thread starter #12

Randy

Senior Member
Bandy,
I really don't understand your last sentence? I do believe in God not just say it "just in case."

Pwalls,
I struggle with the Noah story too. My personal belief is that Noah did put 2 of everything in "his world" on the boat. I believe that world flood was a "local" world as the people in that region knew it. Heck, nobody from that part of the world knew America was even here. When I say this to most Christians, they somehow feel that I have belittled God's power, thinking I am saying he could not have flooded the "whole world" as we now know it. On the contrary he had the power to only flood the part he needed to "clean up."
 
I can't recall at this moment the Scientist's name, but after a long research on evolution, he came to the conclusion that there has not been enough time on earth for man to have evloved from anything. Besides, who else or what else could have made all the complex things on earth and we still haven't discovered them all. Think about all the working parts in your body......how they all work together.... Somebody has to be the smartestest person in the universe to make you and me. Look up for the answer.....look straight up!







Just because I look like a monkey don't mean I am a monkey. :bounce:
 
Something that is rarely mentioned by the scientific community is that toward the end of his life Darwin stated that there must be a "Creator" to start life. He believed that evolution was changing and adapting to environment, but somewhere along the line a "higher power" had to be involved to start the process.
 

Madsnooker

Senior Member
In my previous reply, I was speaking specifically about evolution as it relates to one form evolving into another form. Fossills would prove this out but they do not.

As far as adaptation that JB refered to, I do believe that life has adapted to changing circumstances as the earth has aged.

Some of the most noted teachers of creation started out believing and trying to prove evolution but the facts changed their view.
 

RThomas

Senior Member
Creation and evolution are not mutually exclusive. To say one accepts evolution as a valid theory does not necessarily mean that they do not believe in God- and vise versa. Many Christians believe in both, and many scientists are indeed Christians. I haven't read all the posts here, but it is encouraging to see that many of you also accept both- at least to some degree.
Sadly, most people who throw out the theory of evolution as nonsense, or as some "conspiracy by athiest scientists" really have no understanding of what evolution actually is.
If anyone is truely interested in learning the facts about evolution, you can find a wealth of information here: http://www.talkorigins.org/

By the way, excellent post, JB. Your "private event" sounds interesting- have fun. :)

RT
 
Thread starter #18

Randy

Senior Member
I have no dought that God created us. Obviously there is a higher power. But what if He created us by evolving us over some period of time. Isn't that just as wonderful and creative. Look at the way we create things. They evolve.
 
Just because I look like a monkey don't mean I am a monkey. :bounce:
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WJ :cool:
I hear ya man. If you look at me you might think I am still a Cromagnun (sp?) Man. But I KNOW that God created me as a homo sapien even if I may not look like one!!!
I'm just asking some of you. Why would the Lord God, if He is who he says he is, need to use evolution or the "Big Baloney" to create man "in His own image?"
Are you saying God couldn't get it right the first time? That He needed to practice?
If you could make yourself exactly the way you want to be, would you slowly do it over years and years? Or would you get her done as quick as possible. And remember God Knows exactly how He wants us to be even though we don't!
On another issue. If the bible isn't meant to be taken literally, how is it meant. If the story about Noah is just a myth or "lesson", then how do you know the bible's teaching about Jesus isn't just stories to teach a lesson. Either the bible is God's absolute true accurate word or it is an absolute waste of time!
I'll take choice number one thank you very much! ::;
Teach
 
creation

IMHO the bible is the only truth we have to go on. Everything else is just speculation. If one can believe the bible for salvation noah's ark shouldn't be that hard.
 
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