Did Jesus or Peter eat unclean food?

Spineyman

Senior Member
The new covenant was prophesied in Jeremiah 31:

Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like the covenant which I made with their fathers when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant which they broke, though I was their husband, says the LORD. But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put my law within them, and I will write it upon their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people . . . [and] I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.​
 

Spineyman

Senior Member
Hebrews 8
The New Priestly Service
8 Now this is the main point of the things we are saying: We have such a High Priest, who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, 2 a Minister of the sanctuary and of the true tabernacle which the Lord erected, and not man.

3 For every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices. Therefore it is necessary that this One also have something to offer. 4 For if He were on earth, He would not be a priest, since there are priests who offer the gifts according to the law; 5 who serve the copy and shadow of the heavenly things, as Moses was divinely instructed when he was about to make the tabernacle. For He said, “See that you make all things according to the pattern shown you on the mountain.” 6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.
A New Covenant
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”

13 In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
 
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Spineyman

Senior Member
Galatians 3:10-29
The Law Brings a Curse
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.” 11 But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.” 12 Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.”

13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”), 14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
The Changeless Promise
15 Brethren, I speak in the manner of men: Though it is only a man’s covenant, yet if it is confirmed, no one annuls or adds to it. 16 Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,” who is Christ. 17 And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect. 18 For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
Purpose of the Law
19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. 20 Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.

21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. 22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
Sons and Heirs
26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
 
The new covenant was prophesied in Jeremiah 31:

Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like the covenant which I made with their fathers when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant which they broke, though I was their husband, says the LORD. But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put my law within them, and I will write it upon their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people . . . [and] I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.​
A new covenant with the house of Judah and the house of Israel? Just wondering about the separation and how the new covenant may bring them back together.
The two becoming one again?
 
Hebrews 8
The New Priestly Service
8 Now this is the main point of the things we are saying: We have such a High Priest, who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, 2 a Minister of the sanctuary and of the true tabernacle which the Lord erected, and not man.

3 For every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices. Therefore it is necessary that this One also have something to offer. 4 For if He were on earth, He would not be a priest, since there are priests who offer the gifts according to the law; 5 who serve the copy and shadow of the heavenly things, as Moses was divinely instructed when he was about to make the tabernacle. For He said, “See that you make all things according to the pattern shown you on the mountain.” 6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.
A New Covenant
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”

13 In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
Even though the Law became obsolete, what was Paul's purpose in providing his guidance lists?

I mean we finally get rid of the law, we finally have love as our guidance?
 

Big7

Senior Member
Think I read something about man having domain over all the animals. Why yes, come to think of it I did read that.

Please feel free to send me any lobster, shrimp, crab, catfish blah blah and pork you may not have a need for.

I promise I won't let it go to waste.
 

Spineyman

Senior Member
A new covenant with the house of Judah and the house of Israel? Just wondering about the separation and how the new covenant may bring them back together.
The two becoming one again?
Because Jesus is of the line of Israel and He is also called the Lion of the Tribe of Judah, so in Him they are brought back together under one house. Jesus is the fulfillment of the entire Old Testament, and is made mediator of the New Covenant in His blood!
 

Spineyman

Senior Member
Even though the Law became obsolete, what was Paul's purpose in providing his guidance lists?

I mean we finally get rid of the law, we finally have love as our guidance?
We truly don't git rid of God's law, because He writes it on our hearts. You also have to realize that the Apostles were living in the Old Testament age. What age do you suppose Jesus is referring to when He clearly says? All authority has been givin unto Me. Go therefore and make disciples of all Nations, and lo I am with you always, even to the close of end of the age !
 
But then Paul explains in his epistles how to behave?
Hey Art, consider how the epistles were penned, specifically the content of Colossians and Ephesians. Note that Paul talks about the indwelling sufficiency of Christ ... and the holy, righteous nature of the believers FIRST, and then the behavior passages at the END.
This is huge. We gotta know nothing else except the cross and resurrection and our transformation from the old Adam to the new creation in Christ waaay before we start tossing rules and guidelines out to the saints. Otherwise it's flesh trust in what we DO for God, and not utter dependence on the finished work.
The Christ sufficiency side brings rest and fulfilling service,
The self sufficient works only bring burn out, discouragement and a return to the religious "try-fail-rededicate" mantra that is so prevalent in Christian gatherings today.
Paul is not abandoning holy, righteous behaviors (by-products of trust and rest), he's just giving them their rightful place ... and order of business in the body of Christ.
Those end of the epistle admonitions will sink any saint ... if the saints are without understanding their union with the indwelling Lord!
 
Thread starter #30
Even though the Law became obsolete, what was Paul's purpose in providing his guidance lists?

I mean we finally get rid of the law, we finally have love as our guidance?
obsolete? Got rid of? Have you guys forgotten the words of our Messiah, "as long as heaven and earth exist, the Law will be in effect". Are you saying that Jesus was wrong? His last commandment, before His crucifixion, was to obey everything Moses said! lol Matthew 23:2 When you only listen to what comes out of the pulpit, that's all you'll ever know! TEST THINGS!!!!
 
Thread starter #31
We truly don't git rid of God's law, because He writes it on our hearts. You also have to realize that the Apostles were living in the Old Testament age. What age do you suppose Jesus is referring to when He clearly says? All authority has been givin unto Me. Go therefore and make disciples of all Nations, and lo I am with you always, even to the close of end of the age !
The events of Acts 21-24 are 30 years after Jesus' ascended, and the Apostles are STILL keeping the Law! lol I love some of these comments! Paul, before going to prison, was still - as James said - "walking upright, by keeping the Law" :)
 
Hey Art, consider how the epistles were penned, specifically the content of Colossians and Ephesians. Note that Paul talks about the indwelling sufficiency of Christ ... and the holy, righteous nature of the believers FIRST, and then the behavior passages at the END.
This is huge. We gotta know nothing else except the cross and resurrection and our transformation from the old Adam to the new creation in Christ waaay before we start tossing rules and guidelines out to the saints. Otherwise it's flesh trust in what we DO for God, and not utter dependence on the finished work.
The Christ sufficiency side brings rest and fulfilling service,
The self sufficient works only bring burn out, discouragement and a return to the religious "try-fail-rededicate" mantra that is so prevalent in Christian gatherings today.
Paul is not abandoning holy, righteous behaviors (by-products of trust and rest), he's just giving them their rightful place ... and order of business in the body of Christ.
Those end of the epistle admonitions will sink any saint ... if the saints are without understanding their union with the indwelling Lord!
Thanks, that's a pretty good and thoughtful explanation. Still though, even if the Law has vanished, even with love, even if at the end of the letters from Paul, we still have these lists or guides.

I still have to ask why? Why are they needed? Why can't love be enough? Why can't I accept a Christian homosexual couple? Why should I prodigal an alcoholic? Why can't my wife be the head of our marriage?
These are things Paul tossed at us after. After saying what he did about love.

Personally, I don't see a need for them. I feel that Christ's love was enough. I feel that God giving us his only son was enough. I wish Paul would have felt the same.
 
We truly don't git rid of God's law, because He writes it on our hearts. You also have to realize that the Apostles were living in the Old Testament age. What age do you suppose Jesus is referring to when He clearly says? All authority has been givin unto Me. Go therefore and make disciples of all Nations, and lo I am with you always, even to the close of end of the age !
The what age question? I'm not sure. I think I see what you mean. Jesus was also living in the same age as the apostles, right?
So that's why he preached keeping his Father's commandments?
The Old was fading or becoming obsolete? Becoming vanished?

Like a process of fading over a certain time period? Maybe an overlapping of the two covenants?
 
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Spineyman

Senior Member
The what age question? I'm not sure. I think I see what you mean. Jesus was also living in the same age as the apostles, right?
So that's why he preached keeping his Father's commandments?
The Old was fading or becoming obsolete? Becoming vanished?

Like a process of fading over a certain time period? Maybe an overlapping of the two covenants?
They were witnessing the end of the Old Testament, in which they lived and preached. They ushered in the New Testament in which was fully implemented in AD 70. When Jesus Christ Himself destroyed the temple from top to bottom. Making it impossible to go back and offer up sacrifices, because He is the sufficiency and completion of those sacrifices. He once and for all made the final sacrifice with His own body and implemented the New Testament in His blood! Now no man ever has fully and perfectly kept the law except Jesus and He says that if you break one part of the law then you have broken it all. We are simply unable to keep the law perfectly and completely. But the Spirit of the living God that dwells in you is able to guide you into all truth. We can not dismiss the law but we do no earn our salvation by keeping it or breaking it. We earn our salvation simply by trusting in the once and for all sacrifice that Jesus made for us on the cross. He is the one who saves us, He is the one that sanctifies us, He is the one that redeems us, He is the one that purchased our salvation.

Hebrews 9

9 Then indeed, even the first covenant had ordinances of divine service and the earthly sanctuary. 2 For a tabernacle was prepared: the first part, in which was the lampstand, the table, and the showbread, which is called the sanctuary; 3 and behind the second veil, the part of the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of All, 4 which had the golden censer and the ark of the covenant overlaid on all sides with gold, in which were the golden pot that had the manna, Aaron’s rod that budded, and the tablets of the covenant; 5 and above it were the cherubim of glory overshadowing the mercy seat. Of these things we cannot now speak in detail.

6 Now when these things had been thus prepared, the priests always went into the first part of the tabernacle, performing the services. 7 But into the second part the high priest went alone once a year, not without blood, which he offered for himself and for the people’s sins committed in ignorance; 8 the Holy Spirit indicating this, that the way into the Holiest of All was not yet made manifest while the first tabernacle was still standing. 9 It was symbolic for the present time in which both gifts and sacrifices are offered which cannot make him who performed the service perfect in regard to the conscience— 10 concerned only with foods and drinks, various washings, and fleshly ordinances imposed until the time of reformation.

11 But Christ came as High Priest of the good things to come, with the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation. 12 Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. 13 For if the blood of bulls and goats and the ashes of a heifer, sprinkling the unclean, sanctifies for the purifying of the flesh, 14 how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? 15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

16 For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17 For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives. 18 Therefore not even the first covenant was dedicated without blood. 19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and goats, with water, scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people, 20 saying, “This is the blood of the covenant which God has commanded you.” 21 Then likewise he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle and all the vessels of the ministry. 22 And according to the law almost all things are purified with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission.

23 Therefore it was necessary that the copies of the things in the heavens should be purified with these, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24 For Christ has not entered the holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us; 25 not that He should offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood of another— 26 He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. 27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, 28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.
 

Spineyman

Senior Member
Mark 7:17-23 NKJV

17 When He had entered a house away from the crowd, His disciples asked Him concerning the parable. 18 So He said to them, “Are you thus without understanding also? Do you not perceive that whatever enters a man from outside cannot defile him, 19 because it does not enter his heart but his stomach, and is eliminated, thus purifying all foods?” 20 And He said, “What comes out of a man, that defiles a man. 21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 22 thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lewdness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness. 23 All these evil things come from within and defile a man.”



Mark 7:17-23 ESV

17 And when he had entered the house and left the people, his disciples asked him about the parable. 18 And he said to them, “Then are you also without understanding? Do you not see that whatever goes into a person from outside cannot defile him, 19 since it enters not his heart but his stomach, and is expelled?” (Thus he declared all foods clean.) 20 And he said, “What comes out of a person is what defiles him. 21 For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, 22 coveting, wickedness, deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. 23 All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person.”




Mark 7:17-2 NASB

17 When he had left the crowd and entered the house, His disciples questioned Him about the parable. 18 And He *said to them, “Are you so lacking in understanding also? Do you not understand that whatever goes into the man from outside cannot defile him, 19 because it does not go into his heart, but into his stomach, and is eliminated?” (Thus He declared all foods clean.) 20 And He was saying, “That which proceeds out of the man, that is what defiles the man. 21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed the evil thoughts, fornications, thefts, murders, adulteries, 22 deeds of coveting and wickedness, as well as deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride and foolishness. 23 All these evil things proceed from within and defile the man.”
 

Spineyman

Senior Member
The events of Acts 21-24 are 30 years after Jesus' ascended, and the Apostles are STILL keeping the Law! lol I love some of these comments! Paul, before going to prison, was still - as James said - "walking upright, by keeping the Law" :)
Keeping the law does not save you. Jesus does in fact save you. He also said I will write my laws on your heart!


Ezekiel 11:19

19 And I will give them one heart, and a new spirit I will put within them. I will remove the heart of stone from their flesh and give them a heart of flesh,
Ezekiel 36:26

26 And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
Jeremiah 31:33

33 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Hebrews 8:10

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
after those days, declares the Lord:
I will put my laws into their minds,
and write them on their hearts,
and I will be their God,
and they shall be my people.

Now I am in no way telling anyone to break God's law in any way shape form or fashion, because the Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul...

Psalm 19:7-11

7 The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul;
The testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple;
8 The statutes of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart;
The commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes;
9 The fear of the Lord is clean, enduring forever;
The judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether.
10 More to be desired are they than gold,
Yea, than much fine gold;
Sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
11 Moreover by them Your servant is warned,
And in keeping them there is great reward.



But keeping God's law does not save you, Jesus saves you. Then He will write His Law on your Heart that you should do them. It is only the in dwelling of the Holy Spirit that gives you the ability to keep them, and the Mediator Christ Jesus to cover you when you break them. Because no one is able perfectly in this life to keep God's Commandments, except Jesus Himself!
 
Thread starter #37
Absolutely correct, Spiney! As I said all through this thread! God asks us to obey Him from our heart....not in trying to earn anything. He's already 'saving' us. Jesus healed first, then asked them not to sin any more....from appreciation and a thankful heart.
 
Thread starter #38
The rules and the Law is an impossibility, but that's the whole point. It doesn't have power to clean us on the inside like the One final sacrifice can, because it cannot "make men perfect, but bringing in a better hope DID" (Heb). Romans says we died to the law by the body of Christ. Why? Because law revives sin, where grace gives us the power to live godly.

With that, I'll take both my justification in Christ with a pork sloppy Joe. (y)


That is great news! Not only can I eat unclean food, but I can cheat on my wife knowing that God doesn't really care! I've been eyeballing this hot woman here at work...and she seems to be open to an affair. As long as I can keep it from my wife, I can rest assured that God doesn't really care and will bless me! :)
 
They were witnessing the end of the Old Testament, in which they lived and preached. They ushered in the New Testament in which was fully implemented in AD 70. When Jesus Christ Himself destroyed the temple from top to bottom. Making it impossible to go back and offer up sacrifices, because He is the sufficiency and completion of those sacrifices. He once and for all made the final sacrifice with His own body and implemented the New Testament in His blood! Now no man ever has fully and perfectly kept the law except Jesus and He says that if you break one part of the law then you have broken it all. We are simply unable to keep the law perfectly and completely. But the Spirit of the living God that dwells in you is able to guide you into all truth. We can not dismiss the law but we do no earn our salvation by keeping it or breaking it. We earn our salvation simply by trusting in the once and for all sacrifice that Jesus made for us on the cross. He is the one who saves us, He is the one that sanctifies us, He is the one that redeems us, He is the one that purchased our salvation.

Hebrews 9

9 Then indeed, even the first covenant had ordinances of divine service and the earthly sanctuary. 2 For a tabernacle was prepared: the first part, in which was the lampstand, the table, and the showbread, which is called the sanctuary; 3 and behind the second veil, the part of the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of All, 4 which had the golden censer and the ark of the covenant overlaid on all sides with gold, in which were the golden pot that had the manna, Aaron’s rod that budded, and the tablets of the covenant; 5 and above it were the cherubim of glory overshadowing the mercy seat. Of these things we cannot now speak in detail.

6 Now when these things had been thus prepared, the priests always went into the first part of the tabernacle, performing the services. 7 But into the second part the high priest went alone once a year, not without blood, which he offered for himself and for the people’s sins committed in ignorance; 8 the Holy Spirit indicating this, that the way into the Holiest of All was not yet made manifest while the first tabernacle was still standing. 9 It was symbolic for the present time in which both gifts and sacrifices are offered which cannot make him who performed the service perfect in regard to the conscience— 10 concerned only with foods and drinks, various washings, and fleshly ordinances imposed until the time of reformation.

11 But Christ came as High Priest of the good things to come, with the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation. 12 Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. 13 For if the blood of bulls and goats and the ashes of a heifer, sprinkling the unclean, sanctifies for the purifying of the flesh, 14 how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? 15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

16 For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17 For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives. 18 Therefore not even the first covenant was dedicated without blood. 19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and goats, with water, scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people, 20 saying, “This is the blood of the covenant which God has commanded you.” 21 Then likewise he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle and all the vessels of the ministry. 22 And according to the law almost all things are purified with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission.

23 Therefore it was necessary that the copies of the things in the heavens should be purified with these, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24 For Christ has not entered the holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us; 25 not that He should offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood of another— 26 He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. 27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, 28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.
That's a lot to grasp at one time. Basically, I guess, Jesus was living in a time of two covenants, one overlapping the other. One fading out and the other fading in.

Do we have anything directly from Jesus' teachings while he was on the earth about this?
So when Jesus was teaching keep my Father's commandments, it was just for that time period of the overlapping covenants? Yet, just until 70AD when the temple was destroyed?

I would also add that I don't think any of us are saying keeping God's commandments is going to save them. Commandment keepers do it as a way of showing obedience "after" receiving salvation.

It's more of a fruit of the Spirit thing. I think it's one of Paul's struggles and teachings. I think he was saying their may be two groups, one who keeps the Law and one who doesn't. Yet don't keep the Law as a show to other men.
 
Thread starter #40
Obedience is the fruit of our salvation, not the root.

How can we say the old covenant was 'fading out' when it was eternal....as God the Father AND Jesus said....? The 'new' of the New Covenant would be the SAME LAWS, just written on your heart, not in stone!
 
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