Did Jesus or Peter eat unclean food?

Thread starter #41
Wanted to add....you can compare our salvation to what we see in the exodus. God saved the Hebrews from Egypt (unless they rejected Moses - Hebrews 10:26-28) and then, AFTER SAVING THEM, gave them his commands, which included blessings and curses. Saved them first, then gave them a source of blessing and curses. Christ has redeemed us from the curses of the Law, not the blessings.

By the way, if you guys have not watched "Patterns of Evidence - The Exodus" you are really missing a treat! As you know, modern historians do not believe there was ever an exodus of a million Hebrews from Egypt. This documentary gives you overwhelming evidence for the Exodus, and can add to your faith in God's word!
 

Spineyman

Senior Member
That's a lot to grasp at one time. Basically, I guess, Jesus was living in a time of two covenants, one overlapping the other. One fading out and the other fading in.

Do we have anything directly from Jesus' teachings while he was on the earth about this?
So when Jesus was teaching keep my Father's commandments, it was just for that time period of the overlapping covenants? Yet, just until 70AD when the temple was destroyed?

I would also add that I don't think any of us are saying keeping God's commandments is going to save them. Commandment keepers do it as a way of showing obedience "after" receiving salvation.

It's more of a fruit of the Spirit thing. I think it's one of Paul's struggles and teachings. I think he was saying their may be two groups, one who keeps the Law and one who doesn't. Yet don't keep the Law as a show to other men.
Jesus wasn't living in two covenants, He is the New Covenant.

We as men are not able to keep God's Law, that is why the New Covenant came about. Because now you have the in dwelling of the Holy Spirit to enable you to be able to keep His Law. The scripture says that we have the same Spirit living in us that also raised Christ from the dead. That same Spirit will quicken or make alive our mortal bodies. That is why we needed the New, because the Law weak and was not able to keep us from our sin, it only showed us our sin. Jesus is however able to keep us from sin and to cleanse us when we do fall!
 

Spineyman

Senior Member
Absolutely correct, Spiney! As I said all through this thread! God asks us to obey Him from our heart....not in trying to earn anything. He's already 'saving' us. Jesus healed first, then asked them not to sin any more....from appreciation and a thankful heart.
That is why the Bible says Faith without works is dead! I say show me your faith and I will show you your works. You are not saved by works, but unto good works!
 
Jesus wasn't living in two covenants, He is the New Covenant.

We as men are not able to keep God's Law, that is why the New Covenant came about. Because now you have the in dwelling of the Holy Spirit to enable you to be able to keep His Law. The scripture says that we have the same Spirit living in us that also raised Christ from the dead. That same Spirit will quicken or make alive our mortal bodies. That is why we needed the New, because the Law weak and was not able to keep us from our sin, it only showed us our sin. Jesus is however able to keep us from sin and to cleanse us when we do fall!
When did this New Covenant(Christ) begin? Has it always been? Christ's birth? Christ's death/ascension? His return in 70AD to destroy the temple?

Christ while walking the earth was teaching "keep my Father's commandments. Why was he doing this if he himself was the New Covenant?
 
Obedience is the fruit of our salvation, not the root.

How can we say the old covenant was 'fading out' when it was eternal....as God the Father AND Jesus said....? The 'new' of the New Covenant would be the SAME LAWS, just written on your heart, not in stone!
Hebrews 8:13
In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Placing the Law on our heart was the same as having it on stone is the same? It would be if it was like taking the Law off a thumbdrive and putting it on your internal hard drive.

It seems like the Cross did way more than just transfer the data.
 
Thread starter #46
Keep in mind that Hebrews is a classic example of how translators screwed up by adding words in an attempt to "help us understand" what is being said. In your King James bible you will see the word "covenant" italicized in several places, especially Chapters 8 and 9. These chapters were about the priesthood, not the covenant, as the context clearly shows. Hebrews 8:8 says that He found fault with THEM, not IT. The covenants God made with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were ETERNAL....and would never change.

I remember years ago discussing some things with my buddies in the AAA forum. One of them, an atheist, (i'll leave her unnamed and I don't think she frequents GON anymore) said that if she were to become a believer she would be into Judaism, since those covenants were forever. That stuck with me, but like a standard Christian at the time, I dismissed these ETERNAL covenants as irrelevant. I no longer dismiss them, and believe Jesus' words about them being eternal, too. If my Messiah says that God's/His commandments were forever, and that I'll be great in heaven for keeping them, and that He will be closer to me if I keep them, I believe Him.
 

Spineyman

Senior Member
When did this New Covenant(Christ) begin? Has it always been? Christ's birth? Christ's death/ascension? His return in 70AD to destroy the temple?

Christ while walking the earth was teaching "keep my Father's commandments. Why was he doing this if he himself was the New Covenant?
MATTHEW 26:28 28 "For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.


Hebrews makes it clear that the New Covenant couldn't begin until after the death of Jesus Christ.


HEBREWS 9:14-17 14 how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? 15 And for this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, in order that since a death has taken place for the redemption of the transgressions that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. 16 For where a covenant is, there must of necessity be the death of the one who made it. 17 For a covenant is valid only when men are dead, for it is never in force while the one who made it lives.
 
MATTHEW 26:28 28 "For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.


Hebrews makes it clear that the New Covenant couldn't begin until after the death of Jesus Christ.


HEBREWS 9:14-17 14 how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? 15 And for this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, in order that since a death has taken place for the redemption of the transgressions that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. 16 For where a covenant is, there must of necessity be the death of the one who made it. 17 For a covenant is valid only when men are dead, for it is never in force while the one who made it lives.
So is that the reason Jesus taught Commandment keeping?
 
Keep in mind that Hebrews is a classic example of how translators screwed up by adding words in an attempt to "help us understand" what is being said. In your King James bible you will see the word "covenant" italicized in several places, especially Chapters 8 and 9. These chapters were about the priesthood, not the covenant, as the context clearly shows. Hebrews 8:8 says that He found fault with THEM, not IT. The covenants God made with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were ETERNAL....and would never change.

I remember years ago discussing some things with my buddies in the AAA forum. One of them, an atheist, (i'll leave her unnamed and I don't think she frequents GON anymore) said that if she were to become a believer she would be into Judaism, since those covenants were forever. That stuck with me, but like a standard Christian at the time, I dismissed these ETERNAL covenants as irrelevant. I no longer dismiss them, and believe Jesus' words about them being eternal, too. If my Messiah says that God's/His commandments were forever, and that I'll be great in heaven for keeping them, and that He will be closer to me if I keep them, I believe Him.
I thought one of the major themes of the bible was about the Old Covenant becoming old and Christ becoming the New Covenant.

I mean even if we don't use words like fading, vanishing, obsolete, etc., there is just too many other passages about something happening within time.
Something came about within the scriptural timeline that made something pass away and something new that had come.
 

Spineyman

Senior Member
So is that the reason Jesus taught Commandment keeping?
Because God's commandments are forever, they do not change! His Word is immutable ( unchangeable)and stands for all times! His Word is so powerful that He spoke into being all of Creation, and it also makes it stand firm.
 

Spineyman

Senior Member
I thought one of the major themes of the bible was about the Old Covenant becoming old and Christ becoming the New Covenant.

I mean even if we don't use words like fading, vanishing, obsolete, etc., there is just too many other passages about something happening within time.
Something came about within the scriptural timeline that made something pass away and something new that had come.
You are correct the Old Covenant that God made with Israel is obsolete. The New Covenant God made was not with man but with the Son of Man. So it is between God and God who Tabernacled among us, Jesus. That is how God the Father accepts God the Sons finished work on Calvary for a substitute in our place!
 
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