Doubt

[WaltL1]

It's funny the images of others that people have of each other as groups. We see the individuals within a big group, that we personally know, as being different from that group.

Meaning many see Christians as haters of the downtrodden and many see Atheist as the haters of the downtrodden. The reality is quite different once we meet an "individual" from one of the groups we think we know.
Some see Atheist, as a group, as this big, anti-Christian, evil empire. They might even have an agenda. Like the "Gay Agenda."
Others, even fellow Christians see the Republicans, as a group, as evil Christians unwilling to help the downtrodden. Bullies who have taken the world by force under the guise of doing it for God.

Personally and regardless of how I feel about the group, I like to give the individuals, the benefit of the doubt, that they are not like the picture I have painted in my head of the group.

Sometimes this picture has been painted by others and I've heard it so often it's image is burned in my brain. I would like to think I'm finally wise enough to see the image for what it is using my on thought process instead of that of another. It isn't an easy task to undo. To remove those old images take time.
Some folks never can. Some never even try.


Lyrics from a song as an example;

Conservative Christian, right wing Republican
Straight, white, American males
Gay bashin’, black fearin’
Poor fightin’, tree killin’
Regional leaders of sales
Frat housin’, keg tappin’
Shirt tuckin’, back slappin’
Haters of hippies like me
Tree huggin', peace lovin'
Pot smokin', porn watchin'
Lazy hippies like me.

Great post Art
I agree 99%.
And I say 99% not 100% because for me there are exceptions.
If, for example, you belong to Westboro Baptist, I have 0 interest in getting to know you or giving you a chance etc. There would be NO redeeming quality about you that would make me overlook the fact that you belong to that group.

 

[Artfuldodger]

Great post Art
I agree 99%.
And I say 99% not 100% because for me there are exceptions.
If, for example, you belong to Westboro Baptist, I have 0 interest in getting to know you or giving you a chance etc. There would be NO redeeming quality about you that would make me overlook the fact that you belong to that group.

I would agree and thanks!

 

[ambush80]

 

[WaltL1]

That's a great story.
Im glad she was able to break through her childhood indoctrination.
Im glad there are those who could engage her with compassion......
Im not one of them who could. Not until after she left those scumbags.

 

[gemcgrew]

That's a great story.
Im glad she was able to break through her childhood indoctrination.
Im glad there are those who could engage her with compassion......
Im not one of them who could. Not until after she left those scumbags.

She still doesn't like you much.

 

[Artfuldodger]

That's a great story.
Im glad she was able to break through her childhood indoctrination.
Im glad there are those who could engage her with compassion......
Im not one of them who could. Not until after she left those scumbags.

I wonder what that type of indoctrination did to her own psyche every time she sinned? If one goes around holding a sign up your whole young life showing that God condemns sin? Then when you sin yourself?
It just seems like even with the washing, you'd still feel very guilty all the time.

 

[WaltL1]

She still doesn't like you much.

Well that's understandable.

 

[WaltL1]

I wonder what that type of indoctrination did to her own psyche every time she sinned? If one goes around holding a sign up your whole young life showing that God condemns sin? Then when you sin yourself?
It just seems like even with the washing, you'd still feel very guilty all the time.

Or maybe not feel guilty at all.
Meaning they have been so indoctrinated that they are the righteous ones and everybody else are the sinners that it doesn't even enter their mind?
Maybe they cant acknowledge their own sins unless and until they can break through their indoctrination.

 

[Israel]

Or maybe not feel guilty at all.
Meaning they have been so indoctrinated that they are the righteous ones and everybody else are the sinners that it doesn't even enter their mind?
Maybe they cant acknowledge their own sins unless and until they can break through their indoctrination.

Nothing seems more normal to us than our own normal.

 

[660griz]

That's a great story.
Im glad she was able to break through her childhood indoctrination.

I think this is true of most atheist.

 

[660griz]

Nothing seems more normal to us than our own normal.

New normal is good too. I remember when it was normal to 'prairie dog' run 100 yards to the outhouse. Then, we got indoor plumbing and that just seemed right from the start. Hot baths on tap. Oh yea...new normal was sweet.

 

[Israel]

New normal is good too. I remember when it was normal to 'prairie dog' run 100 yards to the outhouse. Then, we got indoor plumbing and that just seemed right from the start. Hot baths on tap. Oh yea...new normal was sweet.

Yeah...I wasn't implying "our" normal is static or has to stay so. Yeah, we change, I don't think any of us have argued against that. It's the perimeters and parameters of change, the limits we impose, probably first upon ourselves, then outward to one another that become the issue.

I don't think you can (but help me if you do, cause I do like laughter) find this funnier than I continue to find it. I do this with God...think He can't be "more" of a thing bounded by the limits of my imagination and understanding, than He is. Yet He's always crushing every preconceived notion.

You said something a few posts back that stays with me, about being "madly in love" and then discovering a figment of your imagination. Was the love the figment? Or the object of that the figment?

I'm not looking for an answer from you, nor trying to hold you to one...it's more a question of what I myself find myself confronted with. I easily believe I know my own affections, and the "why" of them. In one sense to the extreme, it is how I define my own sense of being..."I am that particular man who approves such and such, and refutes other." I am the man in whom this particular "set" of approvals and disapproval's resides.

What becomes laughably funny is when it is plainly demonstrated to me that that "other" I have been refuting is God, and yet He's more than alright with it...in His knowing. A provision has been made of such order that He can bear contradiction far beyond any understanding I may have where such contradiction...must be summarily opposed. A provision of such magnitude that what opposes Him in mind, is already accounted for.

A fellow once said "consider the long suffering (patience) of God as salvation". I'm persuaded he discovered a need of patience being exerted toward him, far in excess of what he may have once considered as to what patience is.

The one teaching him was not the figment, the figment was his own understanding of what things meant.

 

[660griz]

You said something a few posts back that stays with me, about being "madly in love" and then discovering a figment of your imagination. Was the love the figment? Or the object of that the figment?

The post was in response to j_seph's post and analogy. The figment of my imagination was the object. (i.e. God) That was the point I was going for.
Swing and a miss I guess.

 

[Israel]

The post was in response to j_seph's post and analogy. The figment of my imagination was the object. (i.e. God) That was the point I was going for.
Swing and a miss I guess.

That still remains interesting. I get (I think) that you mean your perception of "her" was a figment, she was not in fact the person you had in mind? You saw her one way...and then came to understand that what you saw was not who was there?

Then taking this analogy over to "God"...His being to you was shown as false to you as your imagining of her? But...is she real nonetheless, even if not at all the way you thought her to be? (Her name isn't Harvey, right?)

 

[atlashunter]

Interesting post and questions. It reminds me of my grandmother who died of liver cancer. She had been a Christian since the early 50’s. The last time I spoke with her she seemed to be at peace with it and I said I didn’t know how she could handle it so well. She said god gives us the strength we need. I do think her faith helped her face death. Is it worth it? What a great question to consider. I know the answer for myself is no. It’s always seemed to me that what is true should take greater priority in our minds than the utility we might find in falsehood. But I think there must be a lot of folks that don’t see it that way. I think there are a lot of believers who would really rather not know if their beliefs were untrue because they don’t want to risk losing what they get out of their faith. They would rather have false hope than no hope. I have a hard time relating to that mindset. If this is the only life I get it seems it would be a shame to spend it chasing a delusion that I would get another.