Faith for atheists?

[Spotlite]

I better get to the store and pick up some more popcorn. Looks like I’ll be waiting a while on this one.

We will swap. Go get the before and after scans and proof of a proper diagnosis of at least one person in your “go to experiment” and since I believe in one God, ensure that at least the one praying believed in any of your healing scriptures and just one of mine. 1 Peter 3:7

 

[Spotlite]

I’d also like to know why faith healers aren’t going through children’s cancer hospitals and healing every kid in there.

Couldn’t tell you as I’m not a faith healer. I get prayed for.

 

[660griz]

I don’t focus on other gods. Once I’ve ruled them out, they’re gone.

Exactly what I did except I ruled them all out.

 

[bullethead]

Couple of things here, after I ask you and you provide your “evidence” to support your disbelief, that’s a point to where I decide I either to believe it or not. We can bat back and forth on that with no issues.

The question was in context. The assertion and claim was made by atheist that prayer doesn’t work. The evidence provided was a poor attempt using a laughable experiment as proof. Play by your own rules and substantiate it with evidence. It works both ways.

The statement was made that a medical explanation wasn’t required if yall could see an improvement. The question was asked by you, how do we know which gods to give credit to?

You validated my point concerning the experiment in question.

How do you know which gods or God didn’t answer to support your assertion and claim? You assume that they all prayed to the same one? Did you even ask to find out? Did you even attempt to see if the folks receiving prayer believe in it?

Y’all claim to know the Bible better than anyone, and if you do, your scripture pulling reveals otherwise.

If you want to know something, ask it, you’ll get an answer. If you don’t like that answer, that’s fine.

I don’t focus on other gods. Once I’ve ruled them out, they’re gone.

No I did not assume they all prayed to the same one.
I asked you (paraphrase) of all the people who pray all over the world to different gods and will swear they have had prayers answered...which god answered their prayers......and then later asked you how you know which god answered yours.

It seems that even though you rule other gods out, it is just a way to try to avoid being a hypocrite.
All the reasons you use to rule them out , complete with disregarding the same personal testimony by the believers in those gods, is/are the same reasons you use to justify yours.
To me it is hypocritical.

Regarding scripture...
I don't believe any of it to be god inspired, infallible, accurate, without errors or without contradiction.
When I quote scripture it is used as written in the context of the story. Just because you want to interpret it differently just to say I/we did it wrong is on you. You believers constantly argue amongst yourselves about what scripture means. It never ceases to amaze me how 2 billion people have 2 billion and 1 interpretations.

 

[Spotlite]

No I did not assume they all prayed to the same one.
I asked you (paraphrase) of all the people who pray all over the world to different gods and will swear they have had prayers answered...which god answered their prayers......and then later asked you how you know which god answered yours.

I would have no idea on the others. The only one that I pray to would be the one to answer mine. I don't see how something faith based would work any other way. Even if you don't believe in faith, surely you would understand the simple concept that I could not have faith in one and have another that I have no faith in step up to the plate behind the scenes.

It seems that even though you rule other gods out, it is just a way to try to avoid being a hypocrite.
All the reasons you use to rule them out , complete with disregarding the same personal testimony by the believers in those gods, is/are the same reasons you use to justify yours.
To me it is hypocritical.

"All the reasons" - interesting................it seems that you assumed wrong. I only have one reason - the God that I chose to believe in said don't have another god before him.

Hypocrite - a person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess.

According to the definition and my one and only reason, please explain how I am avoiding being a hypocrite by abiding in what I claim to have a religious belief in.

Regarding scripture...
I don't believe any of it to be god inspired, infallible, accurate, without errors or without contradiction.
When I quote scripture it is used as written in the context of the story. Just because you want to interpret it differently just to say I/we did it wrong is on you. You believers constantly argue amongst yourselves about what scripture means. It never ceases to amaze me how 2 billion people have 2 billion and 1 interpretations.

I have no problem if you don't believe in scriptures. I can take a simple "I don't believe it". The rest of all that is nothing but a distraction for those looking to complain. People ague over a football game, either go to the game or stay home.............but the regs were not wrong because half the crowd boos and the other half cheers over a call, while some protest outside that the game isn't even real.

 

[bullethead]

I would have no idea on the others. The only one that I pray to would be the one to answer mine. I don't see how something faith based would work any other way. Even if you don't believe in faith, surely you would understand the simple concept that I could not have faith in one and have another that I have no faith in step up to the plate behind the scenes.


"All the reasons" - interesting................it seems that you assumed wrong. I only have one reason - the God that I chose to believe in said don't have another god before him.

Hypocrite - a person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess.

According to the definition and my one and only reason, please explain how I am avoiding being a hypocrite by abiding in what I claim to have a religious belief in.



I have no problem if you don't believe in scriptures. I can take a simple "I don't believe it". The rest of all that is nothing but a distraction for those looking to complain. People ague over a football game, either go to the game or stay home.............but the regs were not wrong because half the crowd boos and the other half cheers over a call, while some protest outside that the game isn't even real.

So if someone came to you and said Rah healed their back after they prayed to it, how would you continue that conversation if they want to discuss it?

Someone who claims their god exists for certain reasons and denies the existence of other gods by people who use those same reasons is hypocritical.

 

[Spotlite]

So if someone came to you and said Rah healed their back after they prayed to it, how would you continue that conversation if they want to discuss it?

Someone who claims their god exists for certain reasons and denies the existence of other gods by people who use those same reasons is hypocritical.

You’re either misinformed on how the definition applies, or playing the part of "the "drowning man grabbing for straws" if you are accusing me of being hypocritical. I can’t help you there. Edited to add****......you didn't quiet get this in the other reply........."I only have one reason - the God that I chose to believe in said don't have another god before him". Has nothing to do with their reasons.

I would continue conversation just like I did with hobbs on the AD70 doctrine. I believe that I even pointed that out in some form or another stating that I didn’t want to throw him under the bus just because I didn’t believe his doctrine. I wanted an understanding of what he believes, nothing more. It was interesting and different. You have to ask, but you don’t have to prove.

 

[atlashunter]

We will swap. Go get the before and after scans and proof of a proper diagnosis of at least one person in your “go to experiment” and since I believe in one God, ensure that at least the one praying believed in any of your healing scriptures and just one of mine. 1 Peter 3:7

I’m still left wondering about the amputees and cancer wards. Seems like a faith healer should be able to roll through a hospital and empty it.

 

[atlashunter]

Couldn’t tell you as I’m not a faith healer. I get prayed for.

But you seem to know what works and what doesn’t. Since you’ve had a miraculous healing experience by prayer and you know it works have you cancelled your health insurance and emptied the medicine cabinet?

 

[matt79brown]

I once knew a faith healer, but he got sick and died.

 

[matt79brown]

King David lay on the ground and prayed for his son's healing for seven days, but yet God's answer was no and the child died. God can do what He wants, with whom He wants, however He wants and is not subject to my understanding of His word. He is sovereign. A concept that many believers can't except and many unbelievers won't except.

 

[WaltL1]

King David lay on the ground and prayed for his son's healing for seven days, but yet God's answer was no and the child died. God can do what He wants, with whom He wants, however He wants and is not subject to my understanding of His word. He is sovereign. A concept that many believers can't except and many unbelievers won't except.

Its not that A/As wont accept that concept.
Its that A/As don't believe there are gods.
If there are no gods(God), the concept is a mute point..

 

[matt79brown]

I just seen a lightning bug. One simple little critter just proved intelligent design to me. All the lectures, sermons, books, logic and philosophy can't compare to that one little flying subtle flash of yellow against the blackened outline of the magnificent old white oak. Proof enough for me. ''Life ain't nothing but a funny riddle.......thank God I'm a country boy!"

 

[Spotlite]

But you seem to know what works and what doesn’t. Since you’ve had a miraculous healing experience by prayer and you know it works have you cancelled your health insurance and emptied the medicine cabinet?

I have free medical / dental / vision insurance - company pays 100% family coverage.............nothing to cancel

I believe that it was you quoting scriptures on faith healing.........I know what worked for me that time, and I know what will not work anytime. I did use one about hindering prayer though

You seem to think that I believe I hit the lottery or something and all worries are gone? I hit my finger with the hammer just like you do. I am not in this to recover from sickness, my hope is for eternal life in heaven.

If you and I were killed in the same wreck and there is no heaven to gain, who is going to be any deader than the other?

Of course if we are both wrong.............I have marsh mellows just in case the burn pit turns out real

 

[Spotlite]

I’m still left wondering about the amputees and cancer wards. Seems like a faith healer should be able to roll through a hospital and empty it.

If I honestly felt that I was humble enough to do that without boasting......I am not that man though.

 

[ky55]

I’m still left wondering about the amputees and cancer wards. Seems like a faith healer should be able to roll through a hospital and empty it.

They should, but they can’t, because they are simple charlatans playing to a captive audience.
I ran into a guy I went to school with at Wally World a couple of months ago, and I got to hear his healing experience.
Seems like he told his doc about pain in his abdomen. Doc says probably a hernia. So he went back to the doc about 4 months later for another minor health issue and told the doc he still had the pain in his abdomen. Doc says let’s get a scan and see what we can do about the hernia.

Scan shows a softball-sized malignant tumor in his colon.

My friend survived the surgeries and treatments and has been cancer free for several months.

He said he was never worried at all, because he knew that God had chosen a good surgeon for him and all would be well.

I wonder who chose the doc who diagnosed his hernia??

 

[atlashunter]

If I honestly felt that I was humble enough to do that without boasting......I am not that man though.

I know you’re not. Neither is anyone else. But that wouldn’t be the case if faith healing really worked.

 

[660griz]

I just seen a lightning bug. One simple little critter just proved intelligent design to me. All the lectures, sermons, books, logic and philosophy can't compare to that one little flying subtle flash of yellow against the blackened outline of the magnificent old white oak. Proof enough for me. ''Life ain't nothing but a funny riddle.......thank God I'm a country boy!"

Ever seen the polio virus or Yersinia pestis?
I doubt if anything will take responsibility for designing that.

" I know he'd be a poor man if he never saw an eagle fly"

 

[bullethead]

I have free medical / dental / vision insurance - company pays 100% family coverage.............nothing to cancel

I believe that it was you quoting scriptures on faith healing.........I know what worked for me that time, and I know what will not work anytime. I did use one about hindering prayer though

You seem to think that I believe I hit the lottery or something and all worries are gone? I hit my finger with the hammer just like you do. I am not in this to recover from sickness, my hope is for eternal life in heaven.

If you and I were killed in the same wreck and there is no heaven to gain, who is going to be any deader than the other?

Of course if we are both wrong.............I have marsh mellows just in case the burn pit turns out real

You rely on an either/or scenario when in reality there are a thousand possibilities that you have not accounted for.

 

[bullethead]

You’re either misinformed on how the definition applies, or playing the part of "the "drowning man grabbing for straws" if you are accusing me of being hypocritical. I can’t help you there. Edited to add****......you didn't quiet get this in the other reply........."I only have one reason - the God that I chose to believe in said don't have another god before him". Has nothing to do with their reasons.

I would continue conversation just like I did with hobbs on the AD70 doctrine. I believe that I even pointed that out in some form or another stating that I didn’t want to throw him under the bus just because I didn’t believe his doctrine. I wanted an understanding of what he believes, nothing more. It was interesting and different. You have to ask, but you don’t have to prove.

1: a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion
2: a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings.

#2 fits you.
You claim all these things about your god and would tell others who claim the same thing about their god that they are wrong.

Hypocrisy is the practice of engaging in the same behavior or activity for which one criticizes another.
According to British political philosopher David Runciman, "Other kinds of hypocritical deception include claims to knowledge that one lacks, claims to a consistency that one cannot sustain, claims to a loyalty that one does not possess, claims to an identity that one does not hold".