Feed Comparison Results

[davidhelmly]

Alright everyone let me see if I can get some info out there. I've got all of the results back and had everything ready to go but one of the feed companies had recently started making a 20% protein feed and I got a bag from their first run that I got my sample from, the numbers from their test and mine showed the protein a little shy of what was advertised so they changed their formulation slightly and did another run of feed and just got that test result yesterday so that threw a little wrench into what I had setup to post up and email.

First off let me say that with the exception of the new feed I was very impressed by how pretty much everyone's results came back at least as good as their tag numbers and most were better, so much for me being a doubter!

With that being said I'm sure everyone wants to know what is the "best" feed. There are several that are very close in my opinion and everyone has to make their own choice, in my situation I want a good feed but it also has to be convenient for me to pick up a pallet every week and of course price plays a role too! I won't tell you what I think is the best feed because everyone has their own set of circumstances that makes their best but I hope with the information that I am going to give you that you can make an informed decision.

First I will tell you what I look for in a feed if price and convenience are all the same. There are a whole lot smarter people on this forum than I am so take this for what it's worth...pretty much nothing! I want a feed that is:
Protein - 20% or more

Crude Fiber - less is better in wild deer, they get the fiber they need thru their browse and in feed it's just a money saving filler for the feed company

TDN (Total Digestable Nutrition) - higher is better

Fat - at least 2-3% but more is good up to a point but I don't know what that point is

Phosphorus - around 1%

Calcium - 1.5-2%

Calcium : Phosphorus - Ratio - 1.5:1 - 2:1

I had a few people helping me research what makes a good supplemental feed and here are some links. Hopefully some of our resident experts will offer up some opinions and links to some different studies also.

http://www.northamericanwhitetail.com/2010/09/22/deermanagement_wt_understanding_0109/

http://www.northamericanwhitetail.com/2010/09/22/deermanagement_naw_understand_0209/

http://www.northamericanwhitetail.c...-look-at-supplemental-feeding-for-whitetails/

This one specifically explains antler growth, but through it you can see how all of the various nutrients result in bigger antlers (or, conversely, healthier fawns).

[http://www.northamericanwhitetail.c...ment_nawthe_world_of_whitetail_antlersii0910/

http://www.deerfarmer.org/index.php...uirements-for-deer-and-elk&catid=29:nutrition

The powers of the forum here have asked me not to post any company names here on the open forum so here is the breakdown minus names. If you send me a pm with your name and email addy I will email you the same chart with company names and also a copy of all of the tests as well as a copy of the bag tag from each sample. If anyone finds an error in the numbers please let me know.
Thanks and sorry for the delay, happy reading!!

 

[BlackEagle]

Thanks for sharing! Sending you a PM now.

 

[Forest Grump]

Crude Fiber - less is better in wild deer, they get the fiber they need thru their browse and in feed it's just a money saving filler for the feed company



Fat - at least 2-3% but more is good up to a point but I don't know what that point is



Calcium : Phosphorus - Ratio - 1.5:1 - 2:1

Crude fiber should "roughly" be balanced against protein; yes, deer get more than enough fiber in their diet, but you have to consider the rumen microenvironment when your deer bellies up to the feeder & tops off the tank. It's not really a waste of money, but not as important as it would be if you were feeding penned up deer.

Fat:
Too much would be more than 4.5%. You will see some companies that have much higher levels. This is an extremely bad idea. Deer lack a gall bladder, & cannot digest higher levels of fats. (In nature, there is nothing with 12% fat in the diet; acorns run right at 4%). Feeding too much fat can cause poor digestion, or scours (diarrhea). So in an attempt to provide them better nutrition, you'd actually be making their situation worse. You might not kill them with higher fats, but you will certainly adversely impact their health.

Deer are naturally drawn to sources of digestible energy, so they will "prefer" foods with higher fats; but just because they will eat it, does not mean it is good for them.

Ca ratio should be about 2:1; the amount in the feed is less important than the ratio of one to the other. In the environment, P is generally of much more limited availability than Ca, but for proper absorption & healthy kidneys, they need to be balanced.

 

[davidhelmly]

Crude fiber should "roughly" be balanced against protein; yes, deer get more than enough fiber in their diet, but you have to consider the rumen microenvironment when your deer bellies up to the feeder & tops off the tank. It's not really a waste of money, but not as important as it would be if you were feeding penned up deer.

Fat:
Too much would be more than 4.5%. You will see some companies that have much higher levels. This is an extremely bad idea. Deer lack a gall bladder, & cannot digest higher levels of fats. (In nature, there is nothing with 12% fat in the diet; acorns run right at 4%). Feeding too much fat can cause poor digestion, or scours (diarrhea). So in an attempt to provide them better nutrition, you'd actually be making their situation worse. You might not kill them with higher fats, but you will certainly adversely impact their health.

Deer are naturally drawn to sources of digestible energy, so they will "prefer" foods with higher fats; but just because they will eat it, does not mean it is good for them.

Ca ratio should be about 2:1; the amount in the feed is less important than the ratio of one to the other. In the environment, P is generally of much more limited availability than Ca, but for proper absorption & healthy kidneys, they need to be balanced.

Thanks FG, great info!!

 

[MadThwacker]

PM sent.
Thanks for putting this together David.

 

[Forest Grump]

Thanks FG, great info!!

hey, when I tried the NAW links in your post, they appear to be broken; I get server not responding... but the originals work fine. Do they work for you? Maybe it's me...

Send me the names to go with the numbers, if you would. I can figure a few out just by looking, 'specially those last 2.

 

[BornToHuntAndFish]

I had a few people helping me research what makes a good supplemental feed and here are some links. Hopefully some of our resident experts will offer up some opinions and links to some different studies also.


http://www.northamericanwhitetail.co...standing_0109/

http://www.northamericanwhitetail.co...derstand_0209/

http://www.northamericanwhitetail.co...or-whitetails/

This one specifically explains antler growth, but through it you can see how all of the various nutrients result in bigger antlers (or, conversely, healthier fawns).

http://www.northamericanwhitetail.co...antlersii0910/



http://www.deerfarmer.org/index.php...uirements-for-deer-and-elk&catid=29:nutrition

Nutritional Requirements for Deer and Elk



The powers of the forum here have asked me not to post any company names here on the open forum so here is the breakdown minus names. If you send me a pm with your name and email addy I will email you the same chart with company names and also a copy of all of the tests as well as a copy of the bag tag from each sample. If anyone finds an error in the numbers please let me know.

Thanks and sorry for the delay, happy reading!!

Good job, David. Looks like great helpful info.

Your 5th web link was the only one that worked for me while the 1st four web links would not, unfortunately.

When you get a chance, please test your 1st four web links which look like parts of the middle of the link did not get copied but were abbreviated with ". . ." so I expect just copying the web links OR URL again from your web browser into your thread will correct the problem.

Doing a web search I found your 5th web link right away. Here's another web link below similar to your other North American Whitetail web links which will probably be the same as the one of the ones you found & kindly posted for us.



http://www.northamericanwhitetail.com/2010/09/22/deermanagement_wt_202foodplots/

Are Your Deer Hungry?

by David Morris

September 22nd, 2010


"NATURAL HABITAT"

"SUPPLEMENTAL FEEDING"

"AGRICULTURE"

 

[Milkman]

Thanks for all the work............. PM sent

 

[BornToHuntAndFish]

First I will tell you what I look for in a feed if price and convenience are all the same. There are a whole lot smarter people on this forum than I am so take this for what it's worth...pretty much nothing! I want a feed that is:

Protein - 20% or more

Crude Fiber - less is better in wild deer, they get the fiber they need thru their browse and in feed it's just a money saving filler for the feed company

TDN (Total Digestable Nutrition) - higher is better

Fat - at least 2-3% but more is good up to a point but I don't know what that point is

Phosphorus - around 1%

Calcium - 1.5-2%

Calcium : Phosphorus - Ratio - 1.5:1 - 2:1

Good brief helpful guidelines, David. Here's a 9-Page document from the Texas Wildlife Dept. authorities that have this info, too, at the web link below. I'll include a couple deer supplemental feeding table summaries from Page 4 & Page 7 in a couple graphic image screen captures. There may be more helpful info of interest to folks in this gov't document, too.



http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/publications/pwdpubs/media/pwd_bk_w7000_0033.pdf

Supplemental Feed l Feeding

by

J.R. Perkins

Texas Parks and Wildlife Department Fisheries & Wildlife Division

1991

Contribution of Federal Aid Project W-129-M

* Reproduced from PWD BK W7000-033 (11/91)

 

[bgreen]

Thanks

Great info! Although, I can't decide if I bought the "right stuff" since I cant determine which brand I bought from your results.

One thing I wish could be tested is how well the product holds up in the weather. I used one tested brand for years and NEVER lost any due to weather.

Yesterday, I went to fill up feeders and had to throw out a bucket full (from another tested brand) from every feeder because it totally turned to mush after 2 days of rain.

It turns to powder in my trough feeders after a few days pretty quick

 

[BornToHuntAndFish]

Here's a couple helpful quotes with general guidelines that can be helpful in making decisions:



http://www.qdma.com/articles/minerals-for-whitetails

Minerals for Whitetails

"Growing antlers are composed mostly of proteins (80 percent by weight); whereas hardened antlers contain roughly equal amounts of proteins and minerals. Studies have shown that calcium and phosphorus are by far the two most common minerals in deer antlers, comprising 30–35 percent of the mature antler by weight. However, a University of Georgia study detected 11 different minerals in the whitetail’s antlers. In addition to calcium (19 percent) and phosphorus (10 percent), the next most common elements were magnesium (1 percent) and sodium (0.5 percent). Lesser amounts of other minerals were found including potassium, barium, iron, aluminum, zinc, strontium and manganese. Besides calcium and phosphorus, little is known about the role of other minerals in antler growth."


AND


http://www.sportsmansguide.com/Outdoors/Subject/SubjectRead.aspx?sid=0&aid=169118&type=A

"When they're growing, antlers are 80 percent protein and 20 percent mineral," he said. "When hard they are 38 percent protein, 22 percent calcium, and 11 percent phosphorous. Protein is more important early in the antler growth because that's when protein is most deposited. Bucks put almost half of the mineral into their antlers between day 98 and day 128 after their antler drop and that's when supplemented minerals can be most beneficial. That's 'June-ish' in most places."

 

[Forest Grump]

Here are the links for the articles above from N.A. whitetail:

http://www.northamericanwhitetail.com/2010/09/22/deermanagement_wt_understanding_0109/

http://www.northamericanwhitetail.com/2010/09/22/deermanagement_naw_understand_0209/

http://www.northamericanwhitetail.c...-look-at-supplemental-feeding-for-whitetails/

http://www.northamericanwhitetail.c...ment_nawthe_world_of_whitetail_antlersii0910/

 

[davidhelmly]

Here are the links for the articles above from N.A. whitetail:

http://www.northamericanwhitetail.com/2010/09/22/deermanagement_wt_understanding_0109/2/

http://www.northamericanwhitetail.com/2010/09/22/deermanagement_naw_understand_0209/

http://www.northamericanwhitetail.c...-look-at-supplemental-feeding-for-whitetails/

http://www.northamericanwhitetail.c...ment_nawthe_world_of_whitetail_antlersii0910/

Thanks FG, I believe I got the originals working too.

You have a PM!

 

[BornToHuntAndFish]

Here are the links for the articles above from N.A. whitetail:



http://www.northamericanwhitetail.com/2010/09/22/deermanagement_wt_understanding_0109/

Understanding What Deer Need, Pt. 1

by Dr. James C. Kroll

September 22nd, 2010

http://www.northamericanwhitetail.com/2010/09/22/deermanagement_naw_understand_0209/

Understanding What Whitetail Need, Pt. 2

by Dr. James C. Kroll

September 22nd, 2010

http://www.northamericanwhitetail.c...-look-at-supplemental-feeding-for-whitetails/

A Closer Look at Supplemental Feeding For Whitetails

by Dr. James C. Kroll

April 24th, 2012

http://www.northamericanwhitetail.c...ment_nawthe_world_of_whitetail_antlersii0910/

The World Of Whitetail Antlers

by Dr. James C. Kroll

September 27th, 2010

1st web link above was for Page 2 of the article but I copied the 1st web link above to start at Page 1.

Thanks!




Here's a quick list of Dr. James C Kroll's articles at North American Whitetail at the web link below:



http://www.northamericanwhitetail.com/author/dr-james-c-kroll/

DR. JAMES C. KROLL (List of articles)

 

[davidhelmly]

Thanks for all of the added info guys, I knew we would have some good stuff added!!

I think I'm caught up on emails, I had a window of a few hours earlier to finish spraying our clover plots so I got that done! if you have sent me a pm asking for results and haven't gotten them send me another one. Some of you didn't give me an email address but I believe I answered those pm's asking for one.

Thanks

 

[Forest Grump]

Here's a couple helpful quotes with general guidelines that can be helpful in making decisions:

... Bucks put almost half of the mineral into their antlers between day 98 and day 128 after their antler drop and that's when supplemented minerals can be most beneficial. That's 'June-ish' in most places."

One caveat: Deer grow this year's antlers from mineral stored in their flat bones; so supplementing minerals this summer will not affect the antlers grown this summer. The Ca & P for both antler growth and milk production come from minerals stored already in the deer's body. Over time, having a handy source to replenish it will (potentially) pay some benefit.

The sodium comes from dietary sources & is not retained in any storage organ in the body; so deer sometimes will experience a "relative Na deficiency" during summer, especially when rainfall promotes lots of lush browse. At those times, you'll often see greater use of salt & mineral sources.

 

[cowhornedspike]

Here is the way he had them listed in his other thread. I think this still applies.

This is the list of feeds being tested.

1) Record Rack Sportsman
2) Record Rack Professional
3) Strickland Bros Farm 16
4) Strickland Bros Farm 20
5) Meadows Edge Advanced 21
6) Purina AntlerMax WS
7) Antler Boost Spring/Summer
8) Imperial Whitetail Results
9) Tucker Milling Roasted Soybeans
10) Product Pride (TSC) Whole Corn

 

[liv2bowhunt]

Pm sent

 

[BowanaLee]

PM sent !

 

[EastALHunter]

Re: fat....

White oak acorns run close to 5%. Red oak acorns run 10-20%. You are correct - deer do not have a gallbladder but can easily handle up to 7% fat according to the ruminant nutritionist publications out there. However, I know many, many breeders that are much higher than the 7% level and their deer subsist on that feed and never scour or have diarrhea. A lot of the deer "info" in the U.S. is thumb in the air. The best info I learned from was on Red Deer from the Europeans, Aussies, and Kiwis. Been dealing with Red Deer nutrition a lot longer over therethan we have over here. Funny but I have yet to find one magic mineral product across the ocean. Their focus is on by-pass amino acids and digestible energy.

Crude fiber should "roughly" be balanced against protein; yes, deer get more than enough fiber in their diet, but you have to consider the rumen microenvironment when your deer bellies up to the feeder & tops off the tank. It's not really a waste of money, but not as important as it would be if you were feeding penned up deer.

Fat:
Too much would be more than 4.5%. You will see some companies that have much higher levels. This is an extremely bad idea. Deer lack a gall bladder, & cannot digest higher levels of fats. (In nature, there is nothing with 12% fat in the diet; acorns run right at 4%). Feeding too much fat can cause poor digestion, or scours (diarrhea). So in an attempt to provide them better nutrition, you'd actually be making their situation worse. You might not kill them with higher fats, but you will certainly adversely impact their health.

Deer are naturally drawn to sources of digestible energy, so they will "prefer" foods with higher fats; but just because they will eat it, does not mean it is good for them.

Ca ratio should be about 2:1; the amount in the feed is less important than the ratio of one to the other. In the environment, P is generally of much more limited availability than Ca, but for proper absorption & healthy kidneys, they need to be balanced.