God's Salvation plan?

hobbs27

Senior Member
See that's just it. I'm not differentiating salvation with entering the kingdom. I say they are synonymous. I say all are going to heaven. That's not what I'm calling salvation here.
I guess if Paul believed that way he wouldnt have had to endure anything.
 
I guess if Paul believed that way he wouldnt have had to endure anything.
Why would you say that?
He endured hard persecution for preaching grace over law.
Will-worshippers always get upset when they're told they don't have a hand in helping God get people to heaven.
(not unlike today)
 

hobbs27

Senior Member
I say that because if everyone has eternal life in heaven, why bother preaching? Why bother with the Gospel? Why endure any persecution?
 
I say that because if everyone has eternal life in heaven, why bother preaching? Why bother with the Gospel? Why endure any persecution?
The kingdom. That's why. It's a really big deal. It was hidden for ages, then all of a sudden John comes on the scene preaching it. Then Jesus comes right behind him preaching it. Even while Jesus was preaching it, he told about it in parables because it was still hidden from certain ones.
For the ones it is intended for, it is worth even persecution to know of it. Paul knew that and was willing to endure it for the elect's sake. I'm glad he did.
 

gemcgrew

Senior Member
election does not equal salvation.
Election is not salvation. Election is unto salvation.
Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
When a sentence starts with "therefore", stop and consider what it is there for.

"the word of God is not bound." "Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory."

Paul being bound is the reason we have this letter to Timothy.

By the will of God.
 

hobbs27

Senior Member
The kingdom. That's why. It's a really big deal. It was hidden for ages, then all of a sudden John comes on the scene preaching it. Then Jesus comes right behind him preaching it. Even while Jesus was preaching it, he told about it in parables because it was still hidden from certain ones.
For the ones it is intended for, it is worth even persecution to know of it. Paul knew that and was willing to endure it for the elect's sake. I'm glad he did.
And , had he not?
I think you're differentiating between kingdom and salvation...are you not?
 
Thread starter #167
I say that because if everyone has eternal life in heaven, why bother preaching? Why bother with the Gospel? Why endure any persecution?
Did Paul have to endure hardship for the sake of the elect? The remnant of Jews elected by grace?
Regardless of who the Elect is, if they are chosen by grace, what does any man have to do with it or about it?

Maybe if I ask this way, was the elect of Israel chosen by grace and not works? Just them, nobody else. Not the rest of Israel or the Gentiles.
What did Paul's suffering have to do with God choosing the remnant of Jews by grace?
 
Thread starter #168
The kingdom. That's why. It's a really big deal. It was hidden for ages, then all of a sudden John comes on the scene preaching it. Then Jesus comes right behind him preaching it. Even while Jesus was preaching it, he told about it in parables because it was still hidden from certain ones.
For the ones it is intended for, it is worth even persecution to know of it. Paul knew that and was willing to endure it for the elect's sake. I'm glad he did.
We had a discussion or many about the Kingdom over the years. Jesus, as you say, preached the Kingdom. Then later Paul preached the Gospel.
It sometimes does appear to be two different things. Go and preach the Kingdom. Then go and preach the gospel. Just something I've wondered about and if there is a difference.
 

hobbs27

Senior Member
Did Paul have to endure hardship for the sake of the elect? The remnant of Jews elected by grace?
Regardless of who the Elect is, if they are chosen by grace, what does any man have to do with it or about it?

Maybe if I ask this way, was the elect of Israel chosen by grace and not works? Just them, nobody else. Not the rest of Israel or the Gentiles.
What did Paul's suffering have to do with God choosing the remnant of Jews by grace?
If the Israelites were Gods chosen people, how does that differ from them being the elect? Chosen...elected..?

Paul suffered to spread the Gospel to the gentiles that they start coming in, receiving the Holy Ghost and make the Jews jealous. Their jealousy was another calling for them to come in to Christ. Paul knew when the full number of gentiles came in , it was going to be lights out for those old covenant Jews, his kinsmen.They had 40 years to come in. From Jesus ministry to the destruction of Jerusalem.
 
And , had he not?
I think you're differentiating between kingdom and salvation...are you not?
Let me try to simplify what I'm saying, because I don't think you're seeing what I'm trying to show you.
First of all, I'm saying Jesus died for the sins of the whole world.(every individual)(1 John 2:2)
But, not every individual will have salvation IN THIS LIFE. (enter the kingdom)(Matt.7:21)
The term "salvation" has been so misused that it has lost it's true meaning.
Now, here's the thing. You must be regenerated (born again) to even see the kingdom. And furthermore, you must be regenerated (born again) to be enabled(set at liberty) to enter the kingdom. This is where the rubber hits the road. As called out disciples, we have been given instructions how to enter this kingdom. And not all the called out will follow these instructions in this life. Remember the ten virgins parable. Half were diligent and half were not. The straight gate is not the easy gate to enter.Most go headlong through the wide one. Sometimes it even requires severing body parts(figuratively) to enter. It may require you to distance yourself from certain family members (spiritually). This kingdom is not for the fearful or the faint of heart. It's for the Joshuas and the Caleb's of this world. And just as Joshua admonished the Hebrews to choose this day whom they would serve, Paul also was still doing that hoping to embolden his hearers to "enter the land". The kingdom.
 
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hobbs27

Senior Member
John 3:16 New King James Version (NKJV)
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

Looks like not everyone gets eternal life.
 
John 3:16 New King James Version (NKJV)
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

Looks like not everyone gets eternal life.
Exactly.

eternal life=knowing God

John 17
2As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
 

Israel

Senior Member
Election is not salvation. Election is unto salvation.

When a sentence starts with "therefore", stop and consider what it is there for.

"the word of God is not bound." "Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory."

Paul being bound is the reason we have this letter to Timothy.

By the will of God.
I have a hope that what is worthy of being said, no less bears repeating.
 
Brother Israel, do you agree that there are real deterrents to our entering the kingdom in this life?
I believe you to be happy if you do not find this response dodgy or offense:

What is real is greater than the deterrents.
 
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