Hebrews 11:5

Vectorman

Senior Member
#21
I agree, Enoch died.
I do not agree with your theory that spirits were held in a place called hades.
The parable of the rich man and Lazarus leads me to believe that those who died prior to Christ resurrection did in fact go to a temporary place called Sheol or Hades.
 
#22
Its not a theory. Its the accepted definition in the Hebrew bible of Sheol. And Hades is the same place. Its where all the dead went both righteous and evil upon death.

http://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionary/sheol/

I agree with the link provided, up to the point it starts trying to redefine Hades as a he11.
"Hades" and "sheol" is referring to the grave, the place where the body goes, not the spirit.
The bible also often refers to the grave as a he11.

And remember that the parable of the rich man and Lazerus is just that, a parable.


When Jesus died He said "Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit."

He didn't say... into sheol I commend my spirit.
 

hobbs27

Senior Member
#23
John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Matt 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

1 Pet 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
1 Pet 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
 

hobbs27

Senior Member
#24
Isaiah 14:9 "Sheol from beneath is excited over you to meet you when you come; It arouses for you the spirits of the dead, all the leaders of the earth; It raises all the kings of the nations from their thrones.
 

hobbs27

Senior Member
#25
When Jesus died He said "Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit."

He didn't say... into sheol I commend my spirit.
I am placing my life into your hands. Ever heard that before? I think that is very similar to what Jesus is saying. Not knock, knock, let me in.
 
#26
What are some verses that say we go to heaven as a soul or spirit before our resurrection? In Ecclesiastes 12:7, I have it heard said that our breath will return to God. Life if you will.

Ecclesiastes 12:7
and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the life's breath returns to God who gave it.

Then we have this verse;

Ecclesiastes 3:21
Who really knows if the human spirit ascends upward, and the animal's spirit descends into the earth?

Jesus said "I have not yet ascended to my Father." Perhaps he really was dead for three days.

I would like to see other verses that show we go to Heaven as souls or spirits before our resurrection or verses showing souls go or went to Abraham's bosom.
 
Last edited:

hobbs27

Senior Member
#28
I agree, What about the thief on the cross?
went that day to paradise...not heaven. He would have been in the same compartment as Lazarus (Abrahams bosom).
 
#29
If people can go to Heaven without dying either in the past or at a future coming of the Lord, how does that work? Their bodies are flesh and blood instead of flesh and bones.
 

hobbs27

Senior Member
#31
Jesus didn't stay in the ground like David did when he died?
Art....you know He resurrected on the third day..what am I missing in this question?
 
#32
I am placing my life into your hands. Ever heard that before? I think that is very similar to what Jesus is saying. Not knock, knock, let me in.
Paul said this concerning where we are the instant our spirit leaves the body:

2 Cor. 5:6-8
6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight: )
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
 

hobbs27

Senior Member
#33
Paul said this concerning where we are the instant our spirit leaves the body:

2 Cor. 5:6-8
6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight: )
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

I dont think this is about after death.

Notice..we (plural) the body ( singular).
 
Last edited:
#34
John 5:27-29
And He has given Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man. 28Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming when all who are in their graves will hear His voice 29and come out—those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.
30 I can do nothing by Myself; I judge only as I hear. And My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me

Comments? Earlier in verse 25 it says;
Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live.

Could 25 be about the spiritually dead and then a few verses later be about the physically dead? How can the physically dead in the ground hear Christ's voice if they aren't down there in the ground?
Did Christ mean the souls of the dead in their holding places will hear my voice? Perhaps he will place their souls back in their bodies before he comes again. If so, is this scriptural?
 
#35
Art....you know He resurrected on the third day..what am I missing in this question?
I'm asking if Jesus was dead like David was. Was David both physically and spiritually dead? Was David soul sleeping yet Jesus wasn't?
Define death. Was Jesus separated from God for three days? Did he not actually die for our sins? Was he really, really dead? Did God forsaken him?
 
#36
Paul said this concerning where we are the instant our spirit leaves the body:

2 Cor. 5:6-8
6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight: )
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
So what are your thoughts on where the saints go when we die a physical death? Abraham's Bosom or Heaven?
 

hobbs27

Senior Member
#37
I'm asking if Jesus was dead like David was. Was David both physically and spiritually dead? Was David soul sleeping yet Jesus wasn't?
Define death. Was Jesus separated from God for three days? Did he not actually die for our sins? Was he really, really dead? Did God forsaken him?
I think.
Jesus body was dead but was protected. Remember it did not face decay, but Jesus Spirit went to Hades as Davids . Davids body went back to the dust, but Jesus body was not to decay.

David was always spiritually dead. All old covenant people from Adam down were spiritually dead...the imputed sin from Adam was given to all. It took the Gospel to raise the dead..or bring eternal life.

Jesus was separated for a moment on the cross, not three days. My God My God why hast thou forsaken me.
He died for the sins of Adam to us and beyond. He made a way to bring man and God back into union as they were in the garden by covering our sin that separates us from God.
 
#38
So what are your thoughts on where the saints go when we die a physical death? Abraham's Bosom or Heaven?
First of all, let me say I don't believe this bosom of Abraham exists except in the parable. Abraham's bosom has long since gone back to dust, for one thing. For another thing, if there is a real Lazerus, his spirit went to where the Lord is.

The parable is teaching the point that even if one could come back from the dead and warn his loved ones, it would not be sufficient to cause them to repent. It takes the Holy Spirit. That's the hypothetical story's purpose.
 
#40
03-04-2017, 06:24 AM
hummerpoo

John 3:13, like all other scripture, must be interpreted from context (Jesus encounter with Nicodemus). Jesus is teaching Nick that his temporal/earthborn/earthbound/fleshly/worldly view makes understanding of eternal/ ethereal/metaphysical/ spiritual/Godly things impossible. Therefore, Jesus statement in the verse must be interpreted as an element of that which He is teaching.
__________________
It's all about God.
For an "in context" interpretation of John 3:13
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf107.iii.xiii.html
You can find several others that have the same theme, I did — with out much effort (esword has some). The linked one is chronologically the earliest ... I liked it so I quite.
 
Top