Indian owned convenience stores

[Jim Baker]

this is the biggest drawback to the FAIR TAX that I see. It puts the store in the mode of tax collector, and there is very little oversight. The only way I see FAIR TAX working is to go to a cashless society, where every transaction is done electronically, and the sales taxes are collected at the bank, not the merchant.

Getting afield from the Forum but the only way to make a Fair Tax/consumption tax work is to apply the tax at invoicing from the Manufacturer, importer, Distributor. Which ever is the entity before the product hits the Retailer. There would still be fraud but This greatly reduces the number of entities that would need to be monitored for collections.

Also known as a Value Added Tax.

 

[NE GA Pappy]

With no income tax to collect, and not wanting to downsize the IRS, there will be plenty of bodies to fill the new jobs of retail tax audits and collections.

but just like now, if there is a cash transaction, it will be easy enough to hide the $$$ and beat the other taxpayers out of anywhere from 20 to 30% of the sale.

To increase the cash sales, they might even discount the sale if you paid cash, resulting in even more fraud.

The only way this can work is to regulate the cashflow by eliminating cash and making each and every transaction electronic. The government gets its $, all of them, the tax rate is less, the ability to defraud the government is eliminated, and when the poopie hits the fan, the government is already in control of all the money, and can spread it where they want it.

An ideal scenario for the government. What's not to love?

 

[sinclair1]

Go in and pull cash out and see what register they use then go back and pull out a card and watch them use a different register.

Yep, I pulled my card and he moved left, then I remembered I had some cash so I pulled it out, he went right to another register.

 

[sinclair1]

Also this is not just an Indian deal. Most small businesses I have dealt with while flipping houses had a cash price and if check they wanted the check written to them personally. I may be dishonest for doing business with them or accepting the deal, but I just wanted a job done and payed however I could get the best price. I know a good amount personally that have cash deals that don't run though the business. So either I only know shady people or most do it. I don't know many Indians either.
The game is to not report and still charge tax.

I report business taxes and they give me a cut for my processing time, but I could really rack up if I kept all the tax in a month and cheated my inventory purchases by putting my own personally owned product in the store to skim. I only have to match my cigarette tax to the amount the company purchased on invoices. If I stock from a personal purchase they will never catch me because it's not related to the store purchase. It's like renting sales space to another business and those books don't concern you but you just happen to run both enterprises.

One above board and one below

 

[NE GA Pappy]

Check around and see how the Value Added Tax is working. Was supposed to cure all tax woes.

the problem with the current VAT system is that they can not tightly control the movement of currency. The government relies solely on the honesty of the vendor to collect the tax money. It the taxes were removed from the buyers bank account at the time of purchase, and the only way to purchase is with a card thru a government controlled banking process, then the system will work.'

not that I am all for this process, but it is where the system is headed, and we will be there in the next 10 years or so

 

[JackSprat]

The government relies solely on the honesty of the vendor to collect the tax money.

That is not entirely correct. I AM NOT ENDORSING VAT - it's like the 16 sales taxes we have, the government will tax you death with a thousand cuts.

With VAT, you will pay VAT on each item you purchase or use in the production of your product or service. It is not an end user tax like our sales tax.

So say your are making widgets. and your widgets require 5 raw materials. You will pay VAT on each of those raw materials, the combined cost per widget being $5. So you make your widget, and sell it for $6. You collect the VAT on the $6, but you only owe tax on the $1 "added value". The enduser pays the full value of the VAT, but you get a credit for the tax you paid on the $5 raw materials.

The tax rates are right steep, so unless you are in a business where you can afford to pay taxes on the costs of production, but not recoup them, there is not benefit to doing business "out the back door."

Also, the raw materials are rigorously monitored. If you bought 10 tons of widget stuffing, you better show 10 tons of widgets sold.

Much the same system is already used for liquor sales because the supply can easily be monitored. If you want to get into business where skimming is an art form, open a bar.

i was working in N.C. and started getting a sundowner at a bar in the building we were working in. So got to know the bar people. One day I was joking, and told the bartender to make it "strong". She said she wished she could but the State Control people would weigh the bottles to reconcile the amount of liquor poured with sales (and tax) reported. That's how VAT works.

 

[Jim Baker]

That is not entirely correct. I AM NOT ENDORSING VAT - it's like the 16 sales taxes we have, the government will tax you death with a thousand cuts.

With VAT, you will pay VAT on each item you purchase or use in the production of your product or service. It is not an end user tax like our sales tax.

So say your are making widgets. and your widgets require 5 raw materials. You will pay VAT on each of those raw materials, the combined cost per widget being $5. So you make your widget, and sell it for $6. You collect the VAT on the $6, but you only owe tax on the $1 "added value". The enduser pays the full value of the VAT, but you get a credit for the tax you paid on the $5 raw materials.

The tax rates are right steep, so unless you are in a business where you can afford to pay taxes on the costs of production, but not recoup them, there is not benefit to doing business "out the back door."

Also, the raw materials are rigorously monitored. If you bought 10 tons of widget stuffing, you better show 10 tons of widgets sold.

Much the same system is already used for liquor sales because the supply can easily be monitored. If you want to get into business where skimming is an art form, open a bar.

i was working in N.C. and started getting a sundowner at a bar in the building we were working in. So got to know the bar people. One day I was joking, and told the bartender to make it "strong". She said she wished she could but the State Control people would weigh the bottles to reconcile the amount of liquor poured with sales (and tax) reported. That's how VAT works.

I am not in favor a "Fair Tax" not VAT Tax. Just that a VAT is more manageable.

Also I am talking about a system that only adds the tax to the original invoice for the finished product from the manufacturer and in the case of imports to the invoice of the US Consignee.

That said the liquor by the drink business is hard to tax by any method. But one better is the dry cleaning, laundry business. The only thing the cleaner buys are clothes hangers and plastic bags and a little laundry soap. And it is a 90% cash business.

 

[3ringer]

I don’t give Indian stores my business. I prefer Mom and pop stores if I can find one. The Indian stores smell with all that inscents and junk they sell. They usually have the electronic slot machines in their stores with a rough looking crowd. Their stores are barely stocked. The dates on their food is not good sometimes. I just don’t care for them. You can usually tell it’s an Indian store because they will have those dumb looking led lights around their windows.

 

[gunnurse]

It’s just like in my county, a lot of food items are rung up at the 7% tax rate. Are food items not supposed to be at 3%?

 

[mlane9]

No disrespect but when you let in people that have a fallback option, they tend to care less than others. As in if they get in trouble they just go home (to whatever country).

Now don't get me wrong some of these folks work hard and deserve to be here, some of these folks. I've had similar strange situations.

 

[JackSprat]

It’s just like in my county, a lot of food items are rung up at the 7% tax rate. Are food items not supposed to be at 3%?

State sales tax is 4%

The extra is various local option taxes that the locals impose on themselves in the mistaken belief that the imaginary "they" are not paying their fair share of taxes, and sales takes will get "them" to pay some taxes.

 

[NE GA Pappy]

State sales tax is 4%

The extra is various local option taxes that the locals impose on themselves in the mistaken belief that the imaginary "they" are not paying their fair share of taxes, and sales takes will get "them" to pay some taxes.

and the sheeples ate it all, hook, line and sinker. I have never voted for a tax increase, and never will. Any type of sales tax, local option, or transportation tax is a tax increase dressed up in a silk purse.

 

[JustUs4All]

This is the on topic forum and this thread has been taken pretty badly off topic.