Is there a discussion about the blood moons?

hobbs27

Senior Member
During Christ's transfiguration, Moses and Elijah were present.
Elijah was taken to Heaven without dying but we know that no man has come down from Heaven but Jesus.
How can Moses and Elijah have been present at the transfiguration if they were waiting for the resurrection? Elijah never died so he could be present without a resurrection.
Special instances maybe as God buried Moses himself. There is speculation that God resurrected Moses after the archangel Michael contended with Satan over the body of Moses.
Elijah did die. Elijah did not go to heaven. They were there in a vision representing the law and the prophets, and Christ fulfilling that.
http://rightwordtruth.com/did-enoch-and-elijah-die-or-are-they-alive-in-heaven/
 
It is covenant that matters. They had a covenant in which death reigned. We have a covenant in which everlasting life is the goal.
True but they were still men of God, correct? Didn't they eventually overcome death when Christ died on the cross?

Now the mystery would be how Gentiles were saved before the grafting in of the Tree of Israel.
 
Elijah did die. Elijah did not go to heaven. They were there in a vision representing the law and the prophets, and Christ fulfilling that.
a vision that multiple people experienced at the same time, saw the same vision, heard the same words and reacted the same way to the voice they heard?

Amazing.


Can you show me, chapter and verse please, where Elijah ever died?
 
Elijah did die. Elijah did not go to heaven. They were there in a vision representing the law and the prophets, and Christ fulfilling that.
http://rightwordtruth.com/did-enoch-and-elijah-die-or-are-they-alive-in-heaven/
OK, it was just the sky. Eventually Elijah died. So now we have two dead prophets, Elijah & Moses, present at Christ's transfiguration which was all just a vision.
It had to be as Christ is the firstborn of the dead. No man had been resurrected from the dead before Christ. Was everyone soul sleeping before Christ was resurrected?

Daniel 12:2
And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

What about the resurrection of Lazarus?
 
No man had been resurrected from the dead before Christ. Was everyone soul sleeping before Christ was resurrected?
I hope you are being sarcastic here. There are numerous instances in the Bible of people being resurrected from the before Jesus. During Elijah's time and Elisha's time.

as a matter of fact, the rabbinical teachings are that Jonah died in the belly of the fish, and was resurrected.
 
I hope you are being sarcastic here. There are numerous instances in the Bible of people being resurrected from the before Jesus. During Elijah's time and Elisha's time.

as a matter of fact, the rabbinical teachings are that Jonah died in the belly of the fish, and was resurrected.
But we read in Jn. 3:13, “No man hath ascended to heaven but He Who came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven”.

Were these resurrections spirits or bodies? Where did they go after their resurrection? It wasn't Heaven. John 3:13 tells us so.

1 Corinthians 15:20
But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.

Confusing isn't it? How can he be the first man resurrected from the dead when we know that men have been raised from the dead before him?
 
a vision that multiple people experienced at the same time, saw the same vision, heard the same words and reacted the same way to the voice they heard?

Amazing.

Can you show me, chapter and verse please, where Elijah ever died?
Where did Elijah go if he didn't die? He couldn't have went to Heaven as no man has come down from Heaven but the Son of Man.

When was Moses resurrected? Better yet when were all of the dead saints in the Old Testament resurrected?
 

hobbs27

Senior Member
Where did Elijah go if he didn't die? He couldn't have went to Heaven as no man has come down from Heaven but the Son of Man.

When was Moses resurrected? Better yet when were all of the dead saints in the Old Testament resurrected?


I'm going to answer this one before I go to sleep and I'll catch the other ones in the morning.

Jesus took them with him at His ascension. He led the captives as he ascended.

There's a lot to this, but its the truth.
 
weren't the dead all held in Abraham's bosom until Christ was resurrected? (rich man/Lazarus) Doesn't the Bible teach that Christ went to Hades and brought back the keys to Death, the Grave and Hades? The people who were resurrected before eventually died again, and were held under the curse of Death until being freed when Christ was resurrected. Christ's resurrection was not a temporary one, but a fully victorious one, where the authority over Death, Hades and the Grave was once again in the rightful possession of Christ.
 
weren't the dead all held in Abraham's bosom until Christ was resurrected? (rich man/Lazarus) Doesn't the Bible teach that Christ went to Hades and brought back the keys to Death, the Grave and Hades? The people who were resurrected before eventually died again, and were held under the curse of Death until being freed when Christ was resurrected. Christ's resurrection was not a temporary one, but a fully victorious one, where the authority over Death, Hades and the Grave was once again in the rightful possession of Christ.
That's pretty much in line with Hobbs explanation. So you see all of the resurrections before Christ's as temporary?
Is there anything biblical as to when they died a second death to be everlastingly resurrected with Christ?
I'm trying to tie in Elijah and Moses being present at Christ's transfiguration if not just a vision. You were looking for scripture that Elijah died yet you say the Old Testament saints eventually all died. Were you excluding Elijah?
Now if they were physically or spiritually at Christ's transfiguration, where did they come from? Were they sleeping in the grave or spiritually in Hades?
If at the time of Christ's transfiguration Elijah never died, then he would be present at the transfiguration physically. Moses on the other hand died and was buried by God.
I just think we are all doing a lot of speculation on this subject. If Moses was buried by God, did God physically resurrect him to attend the transfiguration only to have him die a second time with the rest of the saints for their everlasting resurrection with Christ?

I thought we were destined to die only once. I've never heard of temporary resurrections. I'll have to study this concept more. It seems logical using Lazarus as an example.
 
What about Enoch? Scripture says that Enoch was not, for God took him. I believe that Enoch and Elijah will be the 2 prophets that are killed in Jerusalem and raised from the dead in the last days. Scripture says it is appointed to man once to die, and that is the only 2 men I can think of that never died.

I wonder if that means you only die once, or that you will die at least once.

If the rabbinical teachings are correct, Jonah died 3 times. Once as a child, once as a phophet, once at the end of his earthly existence.
 
What about Enoch? Scripture says that Enoch was not, for God took him. I believe that Enoch and Elijah will be the 2 prophets that are killed in Jerusalem and raised from the dead in the last days. Scripture says it is appointed to man once to die, and that is the only 2 men I can think of that never died.

I wonder if that means you only die once, or that you will die at least once.

If the rabbinical teachings are correct, Jonah died 3 times. Once as a child, once as a phophet, once at the end of his earthly existence.
Wow, I was just reading about the Two Witnesses. Interesting discussion.
 

hobbs27

Senior Member
The Two Witnesses:

If anyone wants to start a thread on this I would love to discuss it more, if not that's okay . I have some exerts from a study I did on this last year and the way I understand it and why.

I agree just about every commentary you read on this will say the two witnesses were the law and prophets or Moses and Elijah. This cannot be correct.

The two witnesses we are told in Revelation 11 are lampstands, and olive trees.

Lampstands we know according to Revelation 1 is The Church, a church, or the churches.

Paul tells us in Romans 11, that Gentiles are a wild olive tree and are grafted in. At the time of the destruction of the Temple which was a 42 month seige there were two churches made up of Jews and another made up of Gentiles. These are the two witnesses. In the end they are killed but the resurrected, then there is one church left one Church of Christ the never ending Kingdom, the new covenant.
 

hobbs27

Senior Member
OK, it was just the sky. Eventually Elijah died. So now we have two dead prophets, Elijah & Moses, present at Christ's transfiguration which was all just a vision.
It had to be as Christ is the firstborn of the dead. No man had been resurrected from the dead before Christ. Was everyone soul sleeping before Christ was resurrected?

Daniel 12:2
And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

What about the resurrection of Lazarus?
As Pappy explained , there were some that were resurrected before Christ's resurrection. Samuel was raised, etc. But none of them were resurrected from the death Adam had in the garden the day he took of the fruit. That death was spiritual death, and it was a spiritual death in which Jesus was the first fruit of.

When He took on our sin at the cross, the Father forsook Him, God will not commune in a sinful temple. He took on our sin by grace, a love for us so great that words cannot properly define. This love washes us of our sin only through our faith, and puts us back in communion with God that Adam had in the garden.

It was such a powerful event that while on the cross, just after He was forsaken, that graves burst open and many were resurrected on the spot. This scared the daylights out of the Roman soldiers standing by.

After His physical death He descended to the grave, " heart of the earth" " Abraham's bosom" aka " paradise" He led that captivity captives with Him at the ascension.

Just as Hebrew tradition throughout the bible, when Christ sacked the grave, and removed its hostages , " those that slept" He gained the spoils of it. Those spoils were the spiritual gifts He poured out on the day of Pentecost. The day Peter stood up and said, " This is that" in which the prophet Joel said would happen in the last days.
They were in the last days, scripture is very clear on this.
 
Hobbs,these things you are presenting are a little above my understanding. I was hoping we could continue discussing why you don't believe in a future bodily resurrection.I'm not proclaiming the blood moons are or are not a sign that it's near,but I do believe Jesus is coming back for us in the future.I'm interested in why you don't see it the same way.If now is not a good time though it's ok.
 

hobbs27

Senior Member
Hobbs,these things you are presenting are a little above my understanding. I was hoping we could continue discussing why you don't believe in a future bodily resurrection.I'm not proclaiming the blood moons are or are not a sign that it's near,but I do believe Jesus is coming back for us in the future.I'm interested in why you don't see it the same way.If now is not a good time though it's ok.
This may be easier if you lead and I follow, so it goes in the direction you want it to.

What's your top reasons you believe that Christ will come in our future and take the church out of this world?
 
Ok.I'll start with Phil.3:20-21:
"For our conversation(citizenship) is in heaven;from whence also we look for the Savior,the Lord Jesus Christ:
who shall change our vile body,that it may be fashioned like unto His glorious body,according to the working whereby He is able even to subdue all things unto Himself."

It tells us that this is not our home.That we are looking for our Saviour.Then it says He will change our bodies into something that's like His body.And it will be glorious.
 
Luke 24 shows us a lot about Jesus' resurrected body,even though He had not yet been glorified.He wasn't glorified until He ascended.
We read in vs.39:
"Behold my hands and my feet:that it is I myself.handle me and see;for a spirit hath not flesh and bones as ye see me have.
Then,in verse 42 &43,He ate a piece of fish and a honeycomb.This was after He came through the walls of the upper room.

If we are going to have a body fashioned like His,I believe we will still have physical characteristics as well as spiritual ones,like He had.
 
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