Is there a discussion about the blood moons?

Pauls words Acts 24:14
"But this I admit to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect I do serve the God of our fathers, believing everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets;
Why wouldn't he believe the Law and the prophets?The law was good.Jesus didn't come to destroy the Law but to fulfill it.
 

hobbs27

Senior Member
Why wouldn't he believe the Law and the prophets?The law was good.Jesus didn't come to destroy the Law but to fulfill it.
His admission is he was actively following the Law. Why would any Christian do such a thing if the Law was fulfilled at that time? Remember Jesus said not one jot or tittle in no wise will pass away till all is fulfilled. So the law was going to pass away, but not until all was fulfilled. 70 ad fulfilled all.
 
His admission is he was actively following the Law. Why would any Christian do such a thing if the Law was fulfilled at that time? Remember Jesus said not one jot or tittle in no wise will pass away till all is fulfilled. So the law was going to pass away, but not until all was fulfilled. 70 ad fulfilled all.
Paul was all about preaching grace.Not works of the Law.Surely you can see that.

Or are you like those he speaks of in ROM.11:6-7 ?
 

hobbs27

Senior Member
Paul was all about preaching grace.Not works of the Law.Surely you can see that.

Or are you like those he speaks of in ROM.11:6-7 ?
Paul preached grace, yes, especially to the Gentiles in which he had to defend to the Jewish council to prevent them from being circumcised .
 
What are your thoughts on ROM.8:23 ?
Specifically the last phrase:

"waiting for the adoption,to wit,the redemption of our body."

Is this redemption of our body something that happened at 70AD ?
 

hobbs27

Senior Member
What are your thoughts on ROM.8:23 ?
Specifically the last phrase:

"waiting for the adoption,to wit,the redemption of our body."

Is this redemption of our body something that happened at 70AD ?
Yes, and let me add, I believe the use of the word body here is not individual biological bodies , but a group. The church body, which was in a state of already, but not yet, in that 40 year period wandering between two covenants.
 
Yes, and let me add, I believe the use of the word body here is not individual biological bodies , but a group. The church body, which was in a state of already, but not yet, in that 40 year period wandering between two covenants.
I would assume today we are adopted as sons as soon as we receive salvation. I don't understand the "body" part but I don't believe I'm waiting on a body to be adopted into the Kingdom. Not unless we're not in the Kingdom yet and are awaiting new bodies to enter the Kingdom.
Some say we are in the kingdom but not yet in the Kingdom. If it's like that then we might need a body for the Kingdom.
 

hobbs27

Senior Member
I would assume today we are adopted as sons as soon as we receive salvation. I don't understand the "body" part but I don't believe I'm waiting on a body to be adopted into the Kingdom. Not unless we're not in the Kingdom yet and are awaiting new bodies to enter the Kingdom.
Some say we are in the kingdom but not yet in the Kingdom. If it's like that then we might need a body for the Kingdom.
Agreed, the body is or was in this case the church body, a body of believers awaiting.
 

hobbs27

Senior Member
I would assume today we are adopted as sons as soon as we receive salvation. I don't understand the "body" part but I don't believe I'm waiting on a body to be adopted into the Kingdom. Not unless we're not in the Kingdom yet and are awaiting new bodies to enter the Kingdom.
Some say we are in the kingdom but not yet in the Kingdom. If it's like that then we might need a body for the Kingdom.
We are definitely in the Kingdom.
 
Yes, and let me add, I believe the use of the word body here is not individual biological bodies , but a group. The church body, which was in a state of already, but not yet, in that 40 year period wandering between two covenants.
I find it strange that Paul would say "OUR body",if he's referring to the body of Christ the church.
Another thing that doesn't make sense to me is if this redemption of the body took place at 70AD,wouldn't that exclude all the people that were not yet born ? If you then say,no it was the entire group of God's elect,past,present,and future,then you would have to amend your beliefs about election and predestination. I'm not following your line of reasoning....but I am a little slow,bear with me.
 

hobbs27

Senior Member
I find it strange that Paul would say "OUR body",if he's referring to the body of Christ the church.
Another thing that doesn't make sense to me is if this redemption of the body took place at 70AD,wouldn't that exclude all the people that were not yet born ? If you then say,no it was the entire group of God's elect,past,present,and future,then you would have to amend your beliefs about election and predestination. I'm not following your line of reasoning....but I am a little slow,bear with me.
I think the word " our" would force " body" to be a plural " bodies" if it were individual biological bodies.

I think verse 22 puts into context as a corporate body. This corporate body was awaiting the resurrection. The death of the old covenant Church ( body) and the rise of the New Covenant church ( body).

The resurrection promise belonged to Old Covenant Israel..The promise belonged to Israel " after the flesh" Romans 9:3. And he said that the promise of the resurrection was taught in the law and prophets Acts 24:14. Resurrection was the hope of the twelve tribes Acts 26:6 It was the fulfillment of Isaiah 25 and Hosea 13.

Secondly the resurrection is linked with the timing of the judgement of Israel Daniel 12:1-9 and Isaiah 65-66.

I'll stop here for now because I know with presuppositions of a physical future resurrection , I just created a fog in most people's minds...Think of it like this. The Resurrection was Israel's promise. The church's promise is Ephesians 3:20-21. Age without end.
 
I think the word " our" would force " body" to be a plural " bodies" if it were individual biological bodies.

I think verse 22 puts into context as a corporate body. This corporate body was awaiting the resurrection. The death of the old covenant Church ( body) and the rise of the New Covenant church ( body).

The resurrection promise belonged to Old Covenant Israel..The promise belonged to Israel " after the flesh" Romans 9:3. And he said that the promise of the resurrection was taught in the law and prophets Acts 24:14. Resurrection was the hope of the twelve tribes Acts 26:6 It was the fulfillment of Isaiah 25 and Hosea 13.

Secondly the resurrection is linked with the timing of the judgement of Israel Daniel 12:1-9 and Isaiah 65-66.

I'll stop here for now because I know with presuppositions of a physical future resurrection , I just created a fog in most people's minds...Think of it like this. The Resurrection was Israel's promise. The church's promise is Ephesians 3:20-21. Age without end.
If it's like you say and he means the church body,why would he describe His church as a "vile" body in Phil.3:21?
Rom.8:1 tells me that there is therefore NOW no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus....
That was the direct result of Jesus' death and resurrection.70AD had not happened yet.
 

hobbs27

Senior Member
If it's like you say and he means the church body,why would he describe His church as a "vile" body in Phil.3:21?
Rom.8:1 tells me that there is therefore NOW no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus....
That was the direct result of Jesus' death and resurrection.70AD had not happened yet.
"Those whom he called, he predestined, to be conformed to the IMAGE of his son" Romans 8.

"We who are BEING TRANSFORMED in the IMAGE of his son." (II Cor 3).

'...but be ye TRANSFORMED in the RENEWAL of your MINDS" (Romans 12.1).

See anything PHYSICAL here, yet?

========

1 Corinthians 15
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

Compare the above scripture with:

2 Corinthians 3 The Covenant Change / Glory of the New Covenant
Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious?, 16 the veil is taken away. 17Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.

Does the Spirit that changed people into the image of the Lord dwell in dead corpses? Or was it dwelling in people who were covenantally dead (seperated from God)? Please note: They were being TRANSFORMED into the SAME IMAGE from GLORY (Old Covenant) to GLORY (New Covenant). If they are in the New Covenant then they have been TRANSFORMED into the Lord's IMAGE!
 

hobbs27

Senior Member
As for Romans 8:1..I have explained they were in a state of already, but not yet. My friend Charles Meek which I believe is a member here on GON writes in his book concerning this.

(
"Christ's death on the cross paid the penalty for our sins (Romans 8:1-4; 1 Corinthians 15:3; 2 Corinthians 5:17-21; Hebrews 9:15-22). His resurrection provides our hope for eternal life (1 Corinthians 15: 2 Timothy 1:10; etc.). His Parousia sealed our salvation (Luke 21:28; Romans 13:11; Hebrews 9:26-28; 1 Peter 1:5). The old pre-Christ world of shadows and prophecies, the things which were 'imperfect' and 'in part' (Daniel 9:24; 1 Corinthians 13:8-22; etc.) were brought to completion. Unlike the futurist paradigm in which the Christian age is but a comma, Covenant Eschatology confirms Christ as completely triumphant--victorious even in the midst of sin" (p. 297)
 
Well Hobbs,that's a lot to process.And don't get me wrong,there's definitely a spiritual aspect to it I agree.But,as far as our resurrection, I contend that there's a physical aspect also.We must rightly devide the two as I showed in post #80.

Job said "After the skin worms destroy this body,yet in my flesh I shall see God.Whom I shall see for myself and mine eyes shall behold and not another,though my reins be consumed within me."

"in my flesh I shall see Him"
 

hobbs27

Senior Member
Well Hobbs,that's a lot to process.And don't get me wrong,there's definitely a spiritual aspect to it I agree.But,as far as our resurrection, I contend that there's a physical aspect also.We must rightly devide the two as I showed in post #80.

Job said "After the skin worms destroy this body,yet in my flesh I shall see God.Whom I shall see for myself and mine eyes shall behold and not another,though my reins be consumed within me."

"in my flesh I shall see Him"

And in his flesh Job did see Him, I've answered this before.
I'm curious of all we have covered, what do you make of the timing of the resurrection in Daniel 12: 1-9, being when the power of the Holy People is crushed? If that wasn't 70ad, what was/ is it?
 
And in his flesh Job did see Him, I've answered this before.
I'm curious of all we have covered, what do you make of the timing of the resurrection in Daniel 12: 1-9, being when the power of the Holy People is crushed? If that wasn't 70ad, what was/ is it?
When did Job see God in his flesh with his eyes?
 

hobbs27

Senior Member
Job 42:5
 
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