Is training at 100 yards good enough?

tree cutter 08

Senior Member
I once read an article that said to go run until your heart and respiration rate were well elevated and then practice your shots at game. I've never done it but I could see it being beneficial.

Also, if 4" is all you can do at 100 then that's about as far as you should shoot at game. 300+ requires a tack driving rifle and a shooter capable of getting the most out of it from varying rests. Taking an improvised rest is also something that needs thinking about and practicing.
i do that a good bit. Really helps with your shooting.
 

killerv

Senior Member
100 yards is plenty, this is Ga, I can count on one hand how many deer I've shot over 100 yards. I do like to practice further for confidence reasons, really no math behind it 200-250 yards and in, depending on the caliber. With the proper zero, just aim and shoot, no holdover,etc.
 

lonewolf247

Senior Member
Yeah ....I can imagine those guys that shot at the Moon saying ....We really shouldn't be shooting beyond what we know for sure !!!!?

My longest "kill" on a deer was 414 yards measured .... I was hunting down a propane pipeline and had prior measured and flagged the yardage with flagging tape in both directions 500 yards each way ...

I use what is called Point Blank Range PBR( no not the other PBR) .... I use a 3" radius . ... meaning the bullet is never higher than 3" nor lower than 3" the line of sight LS( the straight line from your eye to the target). The maximum height (3" ) is 155 yards and lowest point is at 313 yards using the 115 grain Nosler BT ....PBR is 313 yards for this combo in my rifle.

I held the scope horizontal wire just above his back and easily squeezed the trigger ... he never moved out his tracks .... I knew he was beyond my PBR and needs some extra height ....

Yes I had shot many times with targets at various ranges between 200 and 400 yards so I had a real go idea of where my bullet would land ....I have a chronograph and knew the velocity ....I also knew the true ballistic Coefficient of the bullet (Brian Litz numbers) .... using JBM Calculator .....

IF you have ALL the needed information and use a good calculator like JBM ...... a shooter can place a bullet a lot closer on target ..... Guessing or not knowing .....is nothing but a shot in the wind .....


Yeah, this is pretty much ditto what I do. I use ballistic calculators, for a given caliber, to determine the MPBR for that caliber, with a certain load, using the 3" radius as mentioned. Then I sight in accordingly.

Since I've been doing this, I have really added to my personal capable range for deer! Used to be 200 yards was about my cutoff, but now, I have taken several over 250 yards, and out to 300. I stretched out once and nabbed one at about 400 yards aiming at the top of the back trick. Usually don’t shoot that far, but this particular buck kept coming out at the next stand down, and when I relocated he came out at the previous one, so I went for it?.
 

BriarPatch99

Senior Member
Going back to the "25" yard sight in . ...I would not consider it idea not in the best interest of good ethical hunting ....but if a fellow only has a 25 yard place to shoot before heading out on a "short" notice hunt....I rather have a gun sighted in at 25 yards.... over the so called "bore sightings" that some gun places do...

This comes down to what the definition of sighted in at 25 yards "is"..... is it the bottom of a coke can sighted in .....or is it a truly a group of at least three shoots basically in the same hole .....

If a shooter is capable of putting the three shoots in the center of a 1/2" orange dot at 25 yards ....then calculated.... that ends up being a 2" group at 100 yards, a 4" at 200 yards and a 8" at 300 yards ....

An ethically minded hunter probably wouldn't shoot at 300 yards with a 25 yards sight in ...
 

GunnSmokeer

Senior Member
I have a .243 rifle that I have shot many times at 100 and 200 yards, for ten years.

Then, for the first time ever, last year, I decided to go long range with it and take it up to Riverbend Gun Club for their 3 x 600 match. Three relays of 20 shots each, all fired at 600 yards.

I did not bother with calculating air density, humidity, temperature, etc.

However, it was a warm summer morning, and I have plenty of experience shooting this gun on warm summer days under similar atmospheric conditions.

I did measure my scope height over bore. I measured this with a digital calipers, going from my visual placement at the center of the chamber to the center of the scope. Then I measured again going from the bottom of the scope's objective lens (front) housing to the top of the rifle's barrel, then using the formula for the radius of a circle to calculate how much farther down the center of the bore would be at that point (measuring the diameter of the barrel at that point, with the gun's stock off.)

So, armed with my exact height over bore info, and knowing the BC of my bullet (which is a very popular 100 grain pointed soft point), I consulted drop tables.

P.S. -- I did not have access to a chronograph, so I assumed that "my rifle" with its 22" barrel would shoot to the same published velocity for this ammunition. That is not always a good assumption. Each rifle, even those of the same make and model, even two rifles that came out of the same factory on the same month, built by the same machines and humans, might have variances in chamber and bore diameter that could mean 100 feet/ second differences in velocity.

ANYHOW, after consulting my drop tables from multiple websites and apps, I got pretty consistent data over how much elevation I needed. I forget the numbers, but let's say one website said I needed to go up 45 clicks on my scope (1/4 moa per click), but another site said 48 clicks. Pretty close, right?

Well, when the shooting started from the full 600 yards, I was hitting low, in the 7-ring. Barely in the scoring rings of the target, which was literally the size of a barn door.

I think I had to eventually go up another dozen clicks, maybe 20 clicks, to get the elevation right. (forget windage for now. There was not a headwind or tailwind. There was a light breeze going mostly sideways. So the only error I'm talking about here in this post is about bullet drop.)

So, my experience is that shooting a lot at 100 yards and then consulting ballistics charts and drop-caluclating webstites is not a good substitute for real data obtained from actually shooting your rifle at longer ranges.
 

Jester896

Senior Clown
probably because that published info you relied on was at Sea level, with Barometric pressure at 29.53Hg, with a temp of 59*, and 78% humidity....really what's printed on the box.
 
"So, my experience is that shooting a lot at 100 yards and then consulting ballistics charts and drop-caluclating webstites is not a good substitute for real data obtained from actually shooting your rifle at longer ranges. "

this!

This is way real long range shooters have the sheet taped on the stock....

that's why they call it dope
 

transfixer

Senior Member
I've been in the same club for a little over 40yrs, ran it for a while, then let someone else take it over, one thing I've noticed as a result of I don't know how many members that have come and gone over the years, the majority of hunters don't know what their rifle will do outside of 100yds, the majority of them are satisfied if they hit a 6 inch circle at 100yds, most don't recheck zeros when changing ammo, unless they miss, most won't put in the time and effort to verify where their rifle shoots at 150, 200, or further, many won't worry about it past 50yds, but yet will take a shot at 100 or 125 on a nice buck, and many will end up with a bad shot and lost deer, and blame it on the caliber or the bullet.

Its just the way it is
 
"I've been in the same club for a little over 40yrs, ran it for a while, then let someone else take it over, one thing I've noticed as a result of I don't know how many members that have come and gone over the years, the majority of hunters don't know what their rifle will do outside of 100yds, the majority of them are satisfied if they hit a 6 inch circle at 100yds, most don't recheck zeros when changing ammo, unless they miss, most won't put in the time and effort to verify where their rifle shoots at 150, 200, or further, many won't worry about it past 50yds, but yet will take a shot at 100 or 125 on a nice buck, and many will end up with a bad shot and lost deer, and blame it on the caliber or the bullet."

Its just the way it is

the truth as it is gospel

I have my own range 0-400 yrds, and I can tell you without recall, I don't care who you are, you have no idea what your weapon will do unless you shoot at a practice level and effort to find out!
 

Jester896

Senior Clown
"DOPE" is an abbreviation for Data On Personal Equipment I do believe
there are pages of it in some of my books with the Dens Alt and other conditions so that I can find something at least very similar if not exact.

I think for the most part it can be broken in 3 sections for most things. 0-400, 400-800, 800-1200...different things come into play more at those different ranges.
 

bullethead

Of the hard cast variety
Many guys(myself included)who shoot a lot and know what their firearms and cartridges will do take for granted that many other shooters and hunters are on the same page when talking about range/bullet/firearm questions and issues.
I base my answers off of my experiences and results but often forget that a 1" group is my maximum acceptable group at 100yds for whitetail sized game and I strive for, prefer, and am satisfied with much smaller groups.. whereas another person may be fine with pie plate accuracy. And because of that many variables are taken for granted when giving answers.
Like examples above, I have shot at long distances both at targets and game, so practicing on a 100yd range will still allow me to set my point of impact for where I need it at longer distances because I have shot those distances with that firearm and that ammo previously.
For someone who is not that familiar, charts will get you close but:
The absolute only way to know for sure what YOUR firearm will do with a certain bullet at a certain range with YOU squeezing the trigger is to shoot it.
 

Jester896

Senior Clown
For someone who is not that familiar, charts will get you close but:
The absolute only way to know for sure what YOUR firearm will do with a certain bullet at a certain range with YOU squeezing the trigger is to shoot it.

Too many times is see somewhat new shooters write the wrong dope down. They write any strike on steel at whatever yards as their dope...I don't feel like that is their dope...what they need to be writing down is the dope to their point of aim on the steel at those yards.

Pie plate accuracy...there is another funny one to me...if it was actually a pie plate they were shooting at instead of a dinner plate...it may be more beneficial to them.

Accuracy is certainly relative to what your needs are...its just when I think of accuracy it is usually < MOA...not pie plate..about 7" at 100 yards...and that is about the lights out area of a deer
 
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BriarPatch99

Senior Member
With out an accurate muzzle velocity ....consulting any ballistic calculator ...is like picking the Mega Million number ....

You gonna need all the other information that is needed also .... many simple calculators don't even have an input for the needed data ....how do you think they will fare with accurate results ....
 
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Bigbendgyrene

Senior Member
Be it with a gun or camera, "shoot" either at long distances much and you quickly appreciate how the smallest of movements become greatly magnified the farther out you shoot. What might be off about an inch at 100 yards quickly turns into crippling / missed shots much farther out.

Putting aside math associated with windage and temps that impact ballistics, body functions like breathing and even your pulse start coming into play with long shots... and firing positions (such as prone) and tripod use become far more important than with shorter, more forgiving ranges.

Had to shoot 500 yards in the USMC, but I have yet to take a kill shot on game beyond 150 yards. Not because I don't think I'd be able to do so, but instead because I prefer being 100% certain (or as close as is possible) to making lethal shots versus injuring a trophy animal that has taken years to develop.

So to answer your question, taking a shot at any animal beyond a range you've shot and practiced REPEATEDLY isn't something I'd recommend unless it's an animal you have no concerns crippling. While deer don't meet that equation for me, hogs and yotes do, though even with them I've managed to harvest them with shots 100 yards or under.

Very different ball of wax out west in the open plains, but if you're hunting anywhere in the southeast you should be able to find good stand placement spots for shots 100 yards or so and under. Have a fair number of nice horns on my walls and the majority were harvested at distances between 30 to 50 yards.
 
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GreenPig

Senior Member
Trajectory is constant and easily doped if you know the actual velocity. Most people don't have a chronograph and go by the fps on the box, which is no good. I've shot centerfire competitions out to 1200 yards and shoot my custom 22 lr out to 500 yards enough to know that reading the wind is the difference between hits and misses. Shooting a 100 yards and expecting to make hits at 3, 4, or 500 yards is like training by running 1 mile, reading about running 20 miles and expecting to be able to run 20 miles. I've hit an 8" plate at 1000 yards 10 out 10 shots and my personal hunting range limit for big game is 350 yards. Just to many variables for me.
 
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